Ranchers say weights have declined since wolf reintroduction ( Middle class under attack )

Associated Press ^ | May 5, 2006 | Jim Knight

[george76]

Cattle ranchers in the Paradise Valley say shipping weights have declined since wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone National Park in 1995.

They say their cattle stay close to gates instead of grazing entire pastures.

Wary animals tend to eat less than relaxed animals.

[george76]

Six county commissioners from two states agreed Tuesday that counties in the West should consider suing the federal government about wolves.

"If the state's not going to sue, maybe it's time for us to," Park County Commission Chairman Tim Morrison

• Wolves are killing livestock and depleting elk herds, while making few inroads on bison.
• Some marginal ranching operations are selling their land as subdivisions because of costly predation.
• Ranchers are using fewer acres for grazing, keeping domestic animals closer to home but losing needed grasslands.
• Wolf concerns increasingly are "locking up" public lands.
• There are so many wolves in this area already that it may be too late to manage them.
• The federal government was not truthful when it proposed and actually carried out wolf reintroduction.

[Wizy]

I understand the fact that stressed animals are not as productive, yet what is the solution? Do we re-irradicate them? That caused far more problems historically that effect far more people then a couple of "light" cattle.

[tomzz]

Somebody needs to round up twenty or thirty canadian wolves, stuff em in a truck and turn em loose in Central Park.

[nightdriver]

"Do we re-irradicate them?"

Yes.

[george76]

Wolves are still a Federally protected animal.

Not only can hunters not hunt inside of the park, hunters are controlled by federal US fish and wildlife outside of the park.

The state of Wyoming is not allowed to make hunting rules in the state lands of Wyoming concerning wolves.

If a rancher or farmer shoots a wolf in self defense of himself, his family, or his livehood...then he has to deal with the federal government.

Going from one extreme to the opposite extreme is not the point. "Do we re-irradicate them?"

Rather, the Federal government should let the state control the states lands.

[george76]

No Amnesty for the Illegals !

Send the foreign wolves to DC or NYC.

It seems that they want them.

We do not.

[ProtectOurFreedom]

re-irradicate

Trouble with phonics? Irradiate -- yes. Eradicate -- yes. Irradicate -- no.

[MediaMole]

Wolves are coming back very quickly around the country. Wisconsin now has what the DNR describes as a full population of wolves. One was found dead on a freeway just outside downtown Milwaukee.

I can't imagine the situation in the west. Wolf populations need to be controlled. Any predator will take the easiest prey. Unless ranchers can shoot wolves, domesticated livestock are easy prey.

[elkfersupper]

I've seen these in the wild in SW New Mexico.

They look at you like you're lunch.

[george76]

Wizy just joined FR.

His first day ?

[Valpal1]

That caused far more problems historically that effect far more people then a couple of "light" cattle.

Name two, specifically.

[Rembrandt]

Wasn't this and the re-introduction of black bears to Jellystone two examples of Hitlery's genius at work?

[GladesGuru]

Just another day in Paradise - predator paradise, that is. Abd not only the wolves are doing well, the 'crats are getting fat. And why not? The Endangered Species Act provides a life long snout pass for each 'crat to keep its snout in the ESA feeding trough.

Fattening 'crats instead of cattle - whodda thunk it?

On the other hand, if the cats are getting too numerous (and they certainly), perhaps it is time to harvest the excess crats. Since few to none of the 'crats has ever been seen really working, arguably most of the 'crat population can safely be declared surplus.

Given the cost of arm length rubber gloves, and the sheer difficulty of finding anyone to dress and clean one of those things (there are some things even Mexicans just won't do), 'crat steaks will probably be far higher than the cattle they are replacing.

[george76]

 

"Say, I've found a perfect spot to catch us a bear."

"How can you be sure?"

"I saw a sign that said Fine for Hunting."

[Proud_USA_Republican]

Parachute Ted Nugent into the park for a couple weeks a year with his bow and arrow.

Problem solved.

[GladesGuru]

Is it possible he is thinking of using a small neutron bomb? Wolves and wolf program 'crats might thus both experience "the blinding light of satori" as the Zen masters would say.

;-)

[NeoCaveman]

I love wolves, they are kind of my motif in my house, and aren't they primarily scavengers, but with that said the government should get the hell out of the way!

[george76]

Wolves and Brown Bears.

Black bears can be brown or black in color, but a Brown Bear is a Grizzly.

And yes, "two examples of Hitlery's genius at work ?"

[Springman]

Ping.

[george76]

[GladesGuru]

I suggest reading The Yellowstone Nature Book, page 109. Thee the first naturalist at Yellowstone Park defines why America did not have the wolf attacks on humans that were the rule in Europe and Asia.

"They learned to their sorrow that nearly every man and boy was armed".

Predators live by killing. Thus they can easily recognize the Top Predator being man when Man's position on the food chain is enforced by a rifle. A rifle in the hand of "every man and boy".

Read a bit of non-revisionist history. 'Tis amazing how much our ancestors knew. Not that all that historical experience means anything to the enviro-commies using the "Endangered Species" de jure to grab more land and grow more agencies.

[girlangler]

"I understand the fact that stressed animals are not as productive, yet what is the solution? Do we re-irradicate them? That caused far more problems historically that effect far more people then a couple of "light" cattle."


Whew, sounds like you have read a few Sierra Club, Humane Society of America, Friends of Animals, and other propaganda.

"That caused far more problems historically that effect far more people then a couple of "light" cattle."

I admit though, light cattle is a phenonoman (sp) that can be dealt with. You know, man, we need to just let the animals populate their fomer range, live in harmony.

Send a few dollars to some animal "protection" groups, you know they have the same goals.Who wouldn't want a "cruelty free conscience?"

Oh, and could you elaborate and give us some documented facts about your last sentence, this one:

"That caused far more problems historically that effect far more people then a couple of "light" cattle."

[Wizy]

I don't disagree, states should have more control. I happen to live in a state where the wolves basically reintroduced themselves from various other northern states and canada. Some have become a problem, and those who become to "socialized" to human populations should be put down. Unfortunately that isn't an option at this point. That being said there should never be the proverbial "open season" on any endangered resource.

[Wizy]

Wasn't aware we were in spelling lecture...sorry teach.

[george76]

"Ever wonder why the fools that want to bring back the wolves either don`t work for a living or live far away ?"

[FreedomPoster]

If that looks at me for very long, in that way, I'm going into shoot, shovel, and shutup mode. That said, I live in a fairly close-in suburb, so it probably isn't happening.

[girlangler]

Here's a good example of how messed up government beaurecrats (sp) can screw up a good thing.

Now, you can't actually hook and bring in a fish in Yellowstone. Not because it is biologically unsound -- but because some people think it is more friendly to tourism.Ever caught a big fish on a barbless hook? Of course not -- and you WON'T.

New rule means Yellowstone anglers must go barbless

LIVINGSTON, Mont. (AP) -- Anglers in Yellowstone National Park must use barbless hooks when catching fish starting later this month, in part to reduce injury to native species like the Yellowstone cutthroat and arctic grayling.

The new rule takes effect May 27 after years of fish sampling by Yellowstone biologists and a yearlong public comment period. More than 90 percent of public comment respondents supported the change, said Todd Koel, the park's supervisory fisheries biologist.

Biologically, there aren't any studies proving that barbless hooks affect fish mortality rates, but that's not the reason behind the change.

"From a mortality standpoint, we can't justify the change," Koel said. "But from an aesthetic and visitors point of view, barbless hooks do help."

People come from all over the world to fish in a protected ecosystem like Yellowstone, and deformed-looking fish caused by overfishing can negatively affect that experience, he said.

"And we just don't like to see injured fish," Koel said. "Barbless hooks, of course, will help that. There's less handling time and they are easier to remove. All we're asking is to bend or crimp your barbs."

Penalties for breaking the new rule can include fines and loss of fishing rods.

Rick Halloran, who works in Dan Bailey's Fly Shop in Livingston, said it's easy to go barbless with a barbed hook.

He suggested using an unserrated set of pliers to clamp down on the hook while holding the pliers perpendicular to the barb.

"Make sure you crimp your barb first, before you tie your fly," said Dean Reimer of Hatch Finders Fly Shop in Livingston. "Because if you break the hook, then there goes all your work."

[GladesGuru]

"Unfortunately that isn't an option at this point."

WRONG ! ! ! !

All that has to happen is for the state to notify US Fish & Wildlife that they are withdrawing from the Cooperative Agreement under the Endangered Species Act. Then the Fishy WildPersons have to go back to the Big Sh*tty from whence they came.

The reason that no state will do this until forced by an enraged populace is that the Fishy WIldPersons take that Federal Endangered Species Act money with them.

The state agencies and the university departments and their faculties of "Academented" are addicted to those Federal bucks.

Time for the citizenry to administer an enforced "cold turkey" withdrawal on the AgencyPersons and the 'Academented".

[CarryaBigStick]

[elkfersupper]

"Ever wonder why the fools that want to bring back the wolves either don`t work for a living or live far away ?"

I especially like it when the wolves get your picket line all stirred up at 2:00AM when you're 30 miles from a road.

[george76]

The politically correct crowd is killing us.

Their moral relativism makes your head spin.

The rich, successful, PETA lawyers can find weak, emotional city Judges to make scientific decisions.

We should return to scientists, biologists, and foresters making scientific decisions based upon educational training and years of practical scientific experience.

[elkfersupper]

If that looks at me for very long, in that way, I'm going into shoot, shovel, and shutup mode. That said, I live in a fairly close-in suburb, so it probably isn't happening.

They run in packs and hunt. By the time you see one, there are others to your rear. Have somebody watch your back, or shoot and spin.

[BigSkyFreeper]

First of all, get them off the endangered species list, then let fate run it's course.

[Wombat101]

I guess you can't feed them the bovine equivalent of "Cat Chow" in a corral? Or am I missing something? I am, after all, a city boy.

[FreedomPoster]

I love American ingenuity.

[Leatherneck_MT]

Wolves are Pack hunters, not scavengers.

[Leatherneck_MT]

SS and S is SOP here in Montana.

[GladesGuru]

Perhaps a better way is to place a small piece of wire in the root of the barb and then crimp the barb down so that the jaw of the plier causes the barb tip to bend down to touch the hook. The small bump of metal formed by the re-contoured barb is still quite effective at keeping the hook in place while playing the fish.

I have been fly fishing the flats in Florida for many years and always do this to my hooks. Why? Consider what it would feel like if a large salt water fly is solidly buried in one's tender skin? Driven in by a 12 wt. line, the hook will usually stop at the bend.

With my barb modification, one can simply pull the hook back out and not bring any extra tissue with the hook. Do it quietly (no nasty Anglo-Saxon interjections) and one's fishing buddies might just not notice you made the heaviest "catch of the day".

And, don't forget that emergency rooms will relieve you of hundreds of dollars to remove a hook. After all, when the hospital has you on the hook, they can partially make up for the losses thanks from all those illegal immigrants.

;-)

[skeptoid]

"...... I happen to live in a state where the wolves basically reintroduced themselves......"

And just what STATE would that HAPPEN to be???

And please elaborate on the 'basic' aspect of the 'self-reintroduction', if you can spare us the time.

[Leatherneck_MT]

You can feed cattle Grain, but they need grass as well.

[Poincare]

Management Intensive Grazing and livestock guard dog teams will keep the cattle fat and the pastures healthy. A lot of graziers are inefficient at best and stuck in their ways.

[FreedomPoster]

Only one thing to say to that: Good.

[Poincare]

You can feed cattle Grain, but they need grass as well.

When you feed cattle grain they need medication and vets. Good grass works wonders.

[Wizy]

I am no going to start going through texts to site specifics, but common sense predator prey relationships tell us some basic information:
When you remove a top predator from a system it;
a) allows secondary predators to overpopulate (in this case those would primarily be coyotes), which have caused far more everyday problems such as; interbreeding with domestic dogs, killing domestic dogs, attacks on livestock. Coyotes well opportunistic like wolves; are also scavengers, which means garbage cans are basically fair game, which literally can bring them to your doorstep.
b) Larger prey that the secondary predators don't see as on the menu also over populate and inbreed (various deer overpopulation in many states, chronic wasting disease...which by many is thought to be at least partially caused by a shallow gene pool).

[Wombat101]

Digestive reasons, I assume?

[Savage Beast]

If the "Environmentalists" are for it, oppose it. If they are against it, support it.

[george76]

That may the future.

If the politically correct get their way, several things will happen.

First, family farms and ranches will fail and go broke.

Second, their grazing allotments that are on public lands will be "vacated." That means closed.

Third, these former family ranching areas will be designated "wilderness." That means no access.

Fourth, Ted Turner and his friends will buy these now bankrupt lands cheap for private resorts where the "beautiful people" from Hollywood can find "santctuary."

Fifth, your meat will be no longer free range. Your food will be bred, born, fed, raised...in a feed lot. Go look at a chicken feed lot and ask about the drugs, etc.

That will be the future of cattle, sheep, etc. production. Huge Corporate productions. No family farmers.

[Leatherneck_MT]

That was my point, just didn't go into the details :)

[Leatherneck_MT]

Health reasons yes. But cattle are designed to live on grass not grain.