Posted on 05/09/2006 4:55:01 AM PDT by Lukasz
"Red Army soldiers don't believe in 'individual liaisons' with German women," wrote the playwright Zakhar Agranenko in his diary when serving as an officer of marine infantry in East Prussia. "Nine, ten, twelve men at a time - they rape them on a collective basis."
The Soviet armies advancing into East Prussia in January 1945, in huge, long columns, were an extraordinary mixture of modern and medieval: tank troops in padded black helmets, Cossack cavalrymen on shaggy mounts with loot strapped to the saddle, lend-lease Studebakers and Dodges towing light field guns, and then a second echelon in horse-drawn carts. The variety of character among the soldiers was almost as great as that of their military equipment.
(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...
Yeah, it's almost as bad as what the German troops did in Russia.
Don't want to reap the whirlwind? Then don't sow the wind in the first place.
I've read his book "Fall of Berlin 1945". Excellent read.
And yet the Japanese army from the same war probably had them beat for atrocities and murder-by-mass-rape.
I agree with you. Not pleasant to read about, but payback is always a bitch. And the Germans really had it coming.
Ditto.
'They raped every German female from eight to 80'
Thats ironic because the Nazis killed every Russian female from 8 to 80.
Some 20 years ago, I read a newly published diary by a woman living in Berlin at the end of WWII as the Russians approached and entered the center....hair-raising, awful stuff.
This is a "Patton was right" BTTT.
And the ones they didn't were shipped back to the Reich for use as slave labor.
They don't.
About 20 years ago, the Japanese Ministry of Education put out textbooks saying that Japan "advanced" into China (vs. "invaded").
Japan refuses to "get it."
Soviet casualties in taking Berlin were more than all of those taken by the western allies in the entire 44-45 campaign. The Germans fought harder in the east because they knew what was coming to them if they lost.
Yeah, they were saying, "Uh-oh, we're going to get repaid in the same coin."
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Yep, all those rat-bastard, murdering Nazi 8-16 year old girls. Sure got what they deserved. That'll teach them. Idiot.
The Russians often raped their own woman as well, as author claims.
I guess they also have no recollection of Unit 731 either.
The problem is that the Germans who "had it coming" (namely the ones who committed the various offenses of the Nazi regime) were not the ones who got raped. As generally happens in war, grievences get taken out on entire populations
I suppose, in light of the makeup of the 9/11 teams (15 out of 19 Saudi), we have an excuse to gang-rape any Saudi women tourists we meet?
All too frequently, the fruits of the fathers' sins are visited onto the succeeding generations.
And a fair number of those 8-16-year-old Maedchen were Hitlerjugend auxiliaries. My uncle got fragged by a 9-year-old girl in Aachen in June, 1945.
That and they hoped that if they held the Soviets back then Germanny would only be occupied by the western Allies.
The old saying "War is Hell", is a literal one. Certain nations in this day and age have, by accepting rule of engagement, and certain conventions, attempted to civilize what is the ultimate oxymoron.
No, they just blame Americans for taking Unit 731's data.
Except for the 13 year old Hitler youths who were still fighting for the final victory.
Not unlike how the Revolutionary War was portrayed in Mel Gibson's "The Patriot. The British uneccesarily plundered, burned houses and I am sure took liberties with the woman and the home team kicked their behinds.
The ones aged 13 were the old-timers--a 9-year-old girl fragged my uncle after the surrender.
My grandfather told me the biggest problem they had towards the end was with the German teenagers.
Robert McNamara, in his interview in "The fog of war", confessed that if the U.S. had not won WWII he and Gen. LeMay would probably have been tried as war criminals for their fire bombing of Japan. The difference between right and wrong/good and evil frequently depends on who wins. This simple fact often creates a "win at all costs" mentatlity.
I don't believe this justifies gang raping civilians of course, but it helps explain some leaders turn their backs and allow things like that to happen.
The "total war" concept was first concieved jointly between Gen. Grant and his staff. This was primarily influenced by Gen. Sherman's insistance of the policy as the only way the war would be brought to a successful conclusion as well as the lessons Grant had learned of the Southern mentality. The lessons that solidified his view that it could be successful were learned while living off the land during the Vicksburg campaign.
Even the inventor of the "total war" concept drew a moral line in the sand however. There is an account of Gen. Grant jumping off of his horse, chasing down, and kicking a man who was attemping to rape a Southern woman. Afterwards, he issued strict orders that all of his commanders were to prosecute any man caught committing such an offense.
"I'm not sure that Japan even today acknowledges the rape of Nanking."
My Chinese officemates are still pissed about that, and they're not even 30.
Too many of those bastards got away with it.
I don't think you mean that. Hitler, Goebbels, et al., had it coming, but are you saying that little girls did? That's the awful thing about undisciplined troops—they're very brave when confronted with the unarmed innocent.
Shoot rapists, of whatever army.
Do you think that teenage German girls and elderly ladies were in charge of ordering German troops into Russia? How did they have it coming?
All of Saudi Arbia wasnt conducting a mass war on the whole world.
Nazi Germany was a plague that brought about a horrible conflict that lead to the deaths of MILLIONS. These "people" got every flipping thing they deserved.
If they are looking for tears now, they aint getting it.
True. Kids and old men were Hitler's final reserves of cannon fodder.
But I expect the usual suspects will set me straight in that regard...
The Japanese were worse, and, they still have a lot of attitude towards other Asians. They feel they are superior.
If Japan would come to terms with it perhaps the anger would subside a bit.
We've had this thread before.
The raping by the Russians is a Darwinian mechanism promoting survival of the fittist. Conqurerors raping the vanquished women is an ancient method of revising the gene pool. The stronger gene pool advances, the weaker dininishes or disappears.
The same action is responsible for the crisis in Darfur.
the 8 to 16 y.o.'s who died in massive American and British bombing raids probably didn't "have it coming" either.
but otoh, one of the prongs in the Allied's "total war" against Germany was to break the spirit of the German civilian population.
They weren't much different from the Nazis in that regard.
"This is a "Patton was right" BTTT."If Patton saw the horrors of the Eastern Front he would have dropped his ivory-handed revolvers and ran away crying. I think overall the German nation's punishment not as hard as they deserved, for what they did. They were eventually rebuilt and allowed to reunite at the end. I know several Jews who to this day won't buy anything of German origin. No Siemens, BMW, etc.
One of the reasons there wasn't too much in the way of an insurgency during the occupation.
The old geezers were there voting for Hitler, and cheering wildly when Germany invaded Russia.
The teenage girls were Hitlerjugend wannabes. Hell, they were engaging in "partisan operations" (what normal folks call "random terrorism") into 1947--against American troops. (They didn't do it against Russian troops because they knew what came next.)
Big difference between civilian casualties of bombing and systematic, mass rape of children in captivity. I know the point you want to make, I just don't buy it.
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Well, with any luck they turned her over to the russians and she got what she deserved.
And the US are the bad guys
Naw, he would've turned to Zhukov and said, "So, let's go kill that paperhanging sonofabitch! Last one to Berlin buys the the first round!"
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