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Posted on 05/10/2006 10:23:52 PM PDT by Zero Sum
Maybe some recent polls will put some backbone into Senate Republicans. But don't bet the rent money on it.
(Excerpt) Read more at townhall.com ...
I do believe a guest worker program with some increase in legal immigration would solve a lot of problems.I have grave doubts about the idea of letting people who are not willing to commit to becoming Americans to come here and work.
Anyone who is willing to commit to becoming an American I will welcome. But if they are not, they can stay home.
I think I used the word "expelled" which encompasses "deported" and all other departures - bottom line: they are out of the country - you want some other punishment for said illegals too?
I don't want migrant rights first - all Men are created equal - there are plenty of legitimate reasons for the Mexican government wanting to know about the Minuteman Project, including lessening the potential for violent conflict.
After reading the White House 'plan' linked to in post #21, I don't believe the issue is 'votes'...According to that link, the issue is commerce, big business, big money...
And I'd say this is not a little scheme put out by George Bush...It's a 'big' scheme with a lot of big money people and groups who make and shape not only the policy of the country but the future and demise of the country as we know it...
And you can bet the Senators are threatened with no financial and political support if they oppose the deal...
Yer trying to fool people Clarence...The unofficial chart you used stated 700,000 were deported during those 4 years...4,000,000 persons left the country voluntarily...Your chart didn't say they were legal, illegal, tourists, or what...All it indicated was they headed out of the country, on their own...
They could have been Americans going on vacation, and probably were...And they probably came back, legally...
"Unofficial"? Name the other U.S. agency that reports said stats.
Those demonstrations may have impressed the media and intimidated politicians but they didn't change many minds among the American people. A majority of Republicans, Democrats, and independents all favor the tougher House bill. The percentages differed among these groups but they were all majorities.Sounds like the legal first-gen Hispanic immigrants I know. They obeyed the law and think the others should too. And they don't like the competition from low-wage wetbacks and they don't like being lumped in with the illegals when they're citizens.
What is really striking is that 53 percent of Hispanics supported the House bill. The loudmouths at the demonstrations did not speak for all Hispanics.
Good one from Thomas Sowell. He's leagues ahead of Walter Williams who is a wise guy libertarian. He should sub for Rush and once did. Just talking black conservative economists
Those are straight from government stats, TomGuy - if you don't believe me, maybe you will believe Spiff - now that he's been pinged, he can at least tell you how he agrees on 4.8 million illegals expelled between 2000 and 2004. We have a current disagreement whether the average of 1.2 million should be used for 2005 though.
Those are bullshit deportations and I've told you that before. Those 4.8 million are simply Mexicans caught at the border by the BP and sent home to try again. Clawerece3 should give me the statistics on deportations from the interior after work place raids. They are minuscule. The only interior deportations of note are of Muslims we want to get rid of due to terrorist ties
4.8 million illegals expelled
No expelled. Deported when caught within 50 miles of the Mexico Border because they were apprehended by the Border patrol.
That 4.8 million sounds exaggerated. A 2-3 million is what I think this number really is
..Dr. Sowell is a great man...
So, when are you going to call for the Mexican government to give the U.S. intelligence about when and where the various human smuggling cartels and groups are going to be smuggling criminal invaders across our border?
Fatalities and other border violence against illegal aliens, from legitimate border watch groups, is essentially zero. Fatalities and other violence from the criminal invaders is (per Rep. Steve King, R-IA) 4,400 Americans murdered by illegal aliens, 4,800 Americans killed by illegal alien drunk drivers, and 3,000 American children sexually abused by illegal aliens. 35% of inmates in our prison systems are border intruders. Border Patrol is regularly shot at, had rocks thrown at them (a Border Patrol helicopter was brought down by a rock - go here). So, wouldn't it be in the best interests of Americans to get intelligence from the Mexican government about illegal border crossings and such? But here you are defending the passing of intelligence about non-violent border watch groups to the Mexican government despite the fact that the violence is all coming from the illegal aliens coming into our country?
Again, you are forgetting which side you're supposed to be on.
It's the only thing that makes any sense.
It really depends on the issue. LOL
By the people that don't know me from Eve, I generally will hear that I'm akin to a Bushbot. Or that I hate the President with suspicions I'm a troll.
The regulars I correspond with don't generally make either allegation unless I really irritate them, because I don't fit into their little neat box. Ex. I supported Dubai, I don't support amnesty. I supported Roberts, would not support Miers, did support Alito. I'll support Leiberman's re-election but I won't support DeWine's nor Chafee's. Yet I also support Blackwell, Steele, Erlich etc... I'l state I'm sitting the election out currently, but I won't support people urging the President's impeachment. I'm not a fan of Tancredo or Malkin, but do support the Minutemen.
These positions frustrate their need to sterotype. :-)
Currently I'm feeling as disgusted as I did during the Miers debate, by people that still haven't learned that conservatives are not the sole property of the Republican Party and the administration is not infallible. That conservatives can and ARE upset because of the actions of our Republican majority. Developing conspiracies to explain it away...sheesh.
There are some people that want to destroy the "two party cartel" but they are not the majority and it is disingenuous for them to claim otherwise. Most of the people that have the temerity to challenge the Republicans on this issue are really trying to prevent them from a huge mistake that will bring the minority some folks around these parts fear. And whether they like it or not, folks in Washington do not respond to "Pretty Please". They respond to the willingness of voters to toss them out of office. Unless they believe we will do that, they won't pay attention.
Is stopped at the border really the same as "expelled from the USA"? I think deportations are somewhere around a hundred or so thousand a year, mostly linked to felony criminal arrests (and no where near one million per year).
I read elsewhere on FR that the Bush administration has all but stopped work-site enforcement.
The bottom line would seem to be that the illegal population has increased massively under the current President.
You probably read it in one of my posts containing the actual statistics as found in the DHS reports. That, along with my analysis, shows that the Bush administration HAS all but stopped work-site enforcement.
Employer Investigation Efforts of U.S. Immigration Authorities:
| Fiscal Year | Worksite Arrests | Notices of Intent to Fine |
| 1993 | 7,630 | 1,302 |
| 1994 | 7,554 | 1,063 |
| 1995 | 10,014 | 1,056 |
| 1996 | 14,164 | 1,019 |
| 1997 | 17,554 | 865 |
| 1998 | 13,914 | 1,023 |
| 1999 | 2,849 | 417 |
| 2000 | 953 | 178 |
| 2001 | 735 | 100 |
| 2002 | 485 | 53 |
| 2003 | 445 | 162 |
| 2004 | 159 | 3 |
The average annual worksite arrests under Clinton was 9,329 arrests. The average annual worksite arrests under President Bush is 456. This is a 95 percent reduction in average annual worksite arrests under President Bush.
The average annual notices of intent to fine employers of illegal aliens under Clinton was 865. The average under President Bush is 79.5. This is a 90 percent reduction in average annual notices of intent to fine employers of illegal aliens.
And then there is 2004 where, under President Bush, only 3 notices of intent to fine employers of illegal aliens were done. 3!! But that was President Bush's worst year. Let's compare best years then.
Under Clinton his best year for Worksite Arrests was 1997 with 17,554 reported. President Bush's best year was 2001 with 735 worksite arrests reported. This is a 99.7 percent reduction in worksite arrests under President Bush when comparing best years.
Clinton Presidency, Total Aliens Expelled:
1993 1,285,952
1994 1,074,781
1995 1,364,688
1996 1,643,108
1997 1,555,116
1998 1,743,273
1999 1,755,754
2000 1,861,933
Total over 8 years: 12,284,605
Average Annual Total Aliens Expelled: 1,535,575
B ush Presidency, Total Aliens Expelled:
2001 1,432,061
2002 1,084,661
2003 1,076,483
2004 1,238,319
Total over 4 years: 4,831,524
Average Annual Total Aliens Expelled: 1,207,881
The average annual total of aliens expelled under President Bush is 327,694 LESS than the average under President Clinton. That is a 21.3 percent reduction in aliens expelled compared between Clinton and President Bush.
Deportable Aliens located in non-border sectors (interior enforcement):
Clinton presidency, last four years:
1997 44,246
1998 39,096
1999 42,010
2000 32,759
Total: 158,111
Bush presidency, first four years:
2001 30,496
2002 25,501
2003 26,492
2004 21,113
Total: 103,602
Total deportable aliens located in interior sectors during the first four years of the Bush presidency represents a 34.4 percent drop compared to the previous four years - the last four years of the Clinton presidency.
Deportable Aliens Located:
Clinton Presidency first four years:
1993 1,327,261
1994 1,094,719
1995 1,394,554
1996 1,649,986
Total: 5,466,520
Clinton Presidency last four years:
1997 1,536,520
1998 1,679,439
1999 1,714,035
2000 1,814,729
Total: 6,744,723
Bush Presidency first four years:
2001 1,387,486
2002 1,062,279
2003 1,046,422
2004 1,241,089
Total: 4,737,276
Total deportable aliens located dropped by 29.7 percent in the first four years of the Bush Presidency compared to the previous four years - the last four years of the Clinton Presidency.
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bttt
Meaningless stats. They always sneak back, clawrence. And you know that.
sw
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