The myth of the easy machine gun

The Star ^ | 5/21/6 | Michael Bowers

[SmithL]

A ban on assault rifles, pushed by the mayor of Chicago and our governor, is moldering in the state House Rules Committee. Lawmakers can take no action until they reconvene in October. And even then, there's little chance supporters can pick up the three additional votes they need to send the bill to the Senate.

But like the villain at the end of a movie, the assault rifle ban never dies. It's just wounded, waiting to come back when you're not looking. So I thought I would look into the validity of its major argument. That is, this notion that it's easy to convert a semi-automatic rifle (legal) into a fully automatic rifle (illegal), also known as a machine gun (illegal).

I've been following the debate. One point always seems to go unexplained. Once some concerned police chief declares that semi-automatic rifles are dangerously easy to convert, the discussion leaps elsewhere. No details of the conversion task are forthcoming.

So I called a spokesman for Gov. Blagojevich in Chicago. Could you explain, I asked. How do you do this job anyway? Do you need a screwdriver? A power drill? How long does it take? Could the governor's office be a little more explicit about the mechanics of the threat?

I gave the helpful spokesman a day to do a little research, then called back. He told me had learned the root of the problem is the "conversion kit," something that allows you to replace a certain part in the rifle and make it a machine gun.

I see. Do you know the name of this part? He didn't. In fact, as he readily acknowledged, he knew almost nothing about guns at all. Not that there's anything wrong with that. He did tell me: "It's very easy if . . .

[SmithL]

Another great read from Bowers. Give his site a hit.

[Chi-townChief]

Hit and bumped.

[Red6]

It doesn't matter. All that counts is that he makes some statement that the "popular opinion polls" show is supported by the masses who shape their opinions based on TV shows.

[randog]

Good article.

I have a North Korean AK-47 (my brother-in-law gave it to me to hold when he moved to Kalifornia). I asked my father-in-law if it could be converted to fully auto (for academic purposes, of course), and he said he knew how, but it was a somewhat involved process.

[holymoly]

I chose the M&M Engineering booklet specific to the SKS, which I understand to be the Chinese version of the AK-47.

He understands wrong. While both are gas-operated, and both are chambered for the 7.62x39 cartridge, they are not the same rifle, or "versions" of the same rifle.

Virtually every Communist country has (at one time) manufactured SKS carbines, including China, Russia, Yugoslavia, etc., etc.

[43north]

This is a great read.

I once got into an argument with a know-it-all hoplophobe at my brother's house who claimed that all you had to do to convert an AK rifle from semi to full-auto was file down "some part". I asked if he meant the sear. "I guess so."

I then proceeded to educate him that the only thing you would get with a filed-down sear on an AK was an inoperable weapon. That really ticked him off so he did the usual liberal thing and started ad hominem attacks on me, the NRA, the Republican Party, and every other group he did not agree with.

He really went bonkers when I pressed him about whether or not he had ever handled or discharged any type of firearm. Things were getting really interesting when my sister-in-law put a stop to our "discussion".

Don't you just love gun-haters? They are so easy to discredit.

[Smokin' Joe]

Funny he should pick the SKS for his research. The Soviets produced the SKS as a semi-auto battle rifle, not as a select fire weapon...

Despite that, this is a good piece and it explains that the conversion isn't going to be done by a schoolkid with a nail file and a screwdriver.

[umgud]

It's easier to build a pipe bomb.

[SampleMan]

Of course, gun control advocates ignore the fact that if you DO have access to a machine shop, producing full auto STEN guns from scratch wouldn't be all that difficult. Guns aren't exactly cutting edge technology, and its easier to produce a full auto STEN than almost any other type of gun.

I'll take an accurate rifle any day, but my point is that such clever and industrious criminals could simply start producing guns despite any ban, if they were so inclined.

[Mini-14]

I had never heard Blagojevich and Daley make the argument that it is easy to convert semis to full autos. At any rate is flat out illegal to own a full auto in Illinois.

[XR7]

Install a Hellfire trigger.
Watch this video: http://www.gungarage.com/hellfireggr.wmv

[elmer fudd]

I think that full auto conversion is probably a little beyond the capabilities of your average street punk, but it is something someone of average intelligence with a decent home workshop could accomplish. Generally it involves blocking the sear that catches the hammer after each pull of the trigger, (something that is very easily done). It gets more complicated though because if that is all you do the cyclic rate will often be too high and cartridges will not have time to fully seat in the chamber before the hammer is released, resulting in jams, stoppages and loss of eyes and other body parts.

Getting beyond the simple mechanics of creating a full auto weapon though, what is being overlooked is that they aren't really that effective unless you're talking about belt fed machineguns. Submachineguns or select fire assault rifles aren't significantly more deadly than their semi-auto siblings. It's all a myth perpetrated by Hollywood.

[cripplecreek]

I've pointed out the same to gun grabbers before and found that informing them that they can never get rid of guns tend to irritate them to the extreme.

Palestinian children make (semi) working guns with a piece of pipe a spring and a piece of metal rod.

[DJ Taylor]

This must be they ad in "Shotgun News" they are referring to.

[Condor51]

I chose the M&M Engineering booklet specific to the SKS, which I understand to be the Chinese version of the AK-47.

Uh no Mike, the SKS is not "the Chinese version of the AK-47". The only commonality is they're chambered in 7.62x39.

That being said I don't know where this argument of conversions is coming from?!? I've never heard it from Daley or ijit Blago. Their sole argument, if you can call it that, is that they consider NO distinctions between a legal semi auto rifle and a full auto "Assault Rifle" when making their case to ban so-called Assault Rifles.

That is whole problem. All the tripe they spew is as if a semi auto fired like a full auto ("spraying hundreds of bullets, blah, blah"), which we know is utter nonsense.

And their goal is to eventually ban ALL firearms - period. First will be the scary looking non "assault rifle", then cop killer bullets - which means any rifle over .22LR, then any semi-auto loading rifle, etc, etc, etc.

[Smokin' Joe]

much.

[andyk]

A couple of factual errors definitely do not take away from the crux of his argument, which is well stated. Thanks for posting this! Mr. Bowers deserves our thanks.

[LoneRangerMassachusetts]

The threat from automatic assault rifles is overrated. You need an army of soldiers to use them effectively. Having half a platoon lay down automatic covering field of fire while the other half advances to a more strategic vantage point is one purpose of automatic weapons. The problem is that you soon run out of ammunition by using automatic fire. The other purpose of automatic fire is to shoot in two or three round bursts to improve your chances of hitting a single target. The problem here is keeping control of your aim as the recoil is a problem.

A real machine gun is one that has a continuous belt with hundreds of rounds before needing to refeed. They are better mounted on some sort of vehicle as it takes a two or three man crew to lug one and its ammunition around. The automatic rifle holds about 20 to 30 rounds and needs frequent changes. A marksman shooting selectively one round at a time at a crowd would kill more than wildly shooting off a clip.

(Check out Sergent York)

[andyk]

That being said I don't know where this argument of conversions is coming from?!?

That's odd; the libs I know have been making that argument for years.

[DTogo]

Funny how Journalists know so little of guns, yet write so much about them, as they do about military and war...

[OSHA]

It doesn't matter. All that counts is that he makes some statement that the "popular opinion polls" show is supported by the masses who shape their opinions based on TV shows.

It didn't help when, during the "assault" weapon ban debate, every nightly newscast without fail showed a film clip of a full auto weapon being fired.

[SampleMan]

Its worth noting that the M-1 could have easily had full auto capability and a removable magazine, like the M-14, but the military thought it would be far more lethal if the soldiers were to aim vice spray.

Also worth note is that after going the selective fire route, the U.S. military decided to introduce burst selection in order to gain more lethality over full auto.

Full auto is only a plus at close quarters or when using it as a psychological tool to get peoples heads down.

[Boiling point]

Semi-automatic versions of military full auto guns, in order to be approved for sale by the BATFE, must differ enough internally, so that you cant even use or install the military internals and make it full-auto. I am not talking about just complex missing parts, but pin holes and part alignments have been moved on the civilian version. If you have the knowledge and machine tools to convert one, then you could also build the entire gun from scratch.

[300winmag]

Despite that, this is a good piece and it explains that the conversion isn't going to be done by a schoolkid with a nail file and a screwdriver.

Never mind how "easy" it is to convert, I'm still looking for the klinton-era web sites where "chilron" could just click a mouse and get an automatic weapon, for free. I'm too lazy to risk a functional semi trying to convert it into something I can't hit the broad side of a barn with.

Despite all the wonderful search engines today, I still can't find those "readily available" sites that contain perfect images of American currency, ready to be cranked out with any publishing software on any ol' kind of printer. I guess it's just something more of the golden era of the klintons we've lost.

[paul51]

The true motive behind this ban is to take another sneaky step toward prohibition of all private firearms of every kind.

Bingo

[taxcontrol]

Or the M3 grease gun... I favor long shot accuracy myself but that is a different subject.

[Farmer Dean]

My wife and I own a fair collection of weapons including several registered full autos.In my opinion,the most deadly gun we have is a Remington 700 heavy barrel.Easily effective to 800 meters if you have the skills to use it properly.

[supercat]

It's easy to modify something like an SKS so it will "probably" fire multiple rounds without you having to pull the trigger for each one. Indeed, if you stick some gunk in the bolt so the firing pin jams forward, it will probably fire a bunch of rounds without you having to pull the trigger at all.

Of course, such a weapon would be extremely dangerous to everyone--including the shooter. For safe operation, locked-breach firearms need a mechanism to ensure that a round cannot be fired before be breech is locked. This is typically handled by disconnecting the trigger from the sear until the bolt carrier is fully forward. Disabling this mechanism may cause such a firearm to fire full auto, but only until it jams on an improperly-ejected or loaded cartridge, blows up from a ruptured casing, stops because the hammer either falls before it can fire a round or else snags on the bolt carrier, or has some other calamity.

[supercat]

How does the amount of lead that a blunderbus could fire in less than a second compare with the amount of lead an M-16 could fire in 10 seconds (using a standard magazine)?

For that matter, how does a "sporting" shotgun like the 870 (4+1 capacity) compare? How about with a still-legal 6+1 capacity?

[Sam Cree]

*

[Lancer_N3502A]

Winchester M70 in .30-06 w/ 4x12 40mm scope. Dead on at 750 yards...8-D

[Red6]

People base the "opinions" on shows like Law and Order. The rest is done by our factual MSM which reports about bolt action 22 caliber assault rifles.

[Sender]

It's an incremental strategy. First the "machine guns" because they're scary and dangerous. Then "assault weapons" and semi-automatics because they look and sound scary and dangerous. Next, handguns because they are easily concealed. Then rifles, because they are too powerful and accurate. Shotguns? Devastating wounds and no one needs to hunt anymore. Anything left? Grab that too. There. Peace and utopia.

[Hot Tabasco]

during the "assault" weapon ban debate

The absolutely best statement of ignorance I have ever heard came from Detroit's WXYZ reporter Bill Proctor who was reporting on a shooting that occured in Detroit.

He said "...police are looking for a SMITH AND WESSON .45 CALIBER GLOCK PISTOL......

He not only said it once but twice in the 6:00 a.m. news hour so it was not a mistake of my hearing going bad........

[The KG9 Kid]

People buy those DIAS'es and find out that it's not a solution for several reasons that I won't list here. In short, it's not enough.

[OkeyDokeyOkie]

Funny how Journalists know so little of guns, yet write so much about them, as they do about military and war...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Funny how liberal politicians and their robotic disciples know so little of guns,the military, and the cost of freedom, yet they rail on and on and on with their endless PC palaver.

[SampleMan]

The simple fact that full-auto guns aren't being illegally manufactured, despite the ease with which that could be done, indicates how misguied the "assault weapon" argument is.

With a small, but modern machine shop and 2-4 people, hundreds of guns a week could be produced.

[ExSoldier]

This all got started because it came out that the original MAC-10 could be converted to full auto in about ten seconds with a flat head screwdriver. That was the 1980s and things really went crazy from there.

[Lazamataz]

I once got into an argument with a know-it-all hoplophobe at my brother's house who claimed that all you had to do to convert an AK rifle from semi to full-auto was file down "some part". I asked if he meant the sear. "I guess so." I then proceeded to educate him that the only thing you would get with a filed-down sear on an AK was an inoperable weapon. That really ticked him off so he did the usual liberal thing and started ad hominem attacks on me, the NRA, the Republican Party, and every other group he did not agree with.

You do realize that, in his mind, he won that argument?

[oldenuff2no]

And the BS anti gun machine continues to lie. I'm a retired combat vet, and a gun smith.
The semi-auto versions of the popular military look alike rifles are a pain in the butt to convert. You can buy a set of templates but you better be a machinist and a gunsmith or you will never get the job done. The first thing you have to do is open up the rifle and toss out most of the existing parts then turn on the lathe and mill and make the replacement parts. After a few days machining the new parts, put on your gunsmith hat and fit them all together. Now all you have to do is polish all the surfaces and assemble your new toy for test firing.
Now you have 4 days into your project and in may or may not fire like you want it to. You have already committed a felony and it will cost you your ability to work on or even own firearms for the rest of your life.
Because of the loss of income you won't be able to pay the house payment or buy food for your kids. I'm sure that all of you can imagine the long line of college educated smith/machinists who are lined up to preform this conversion just so they can ruin their lives and spend some time in prison. The anti gun idiots do not have a dozen functioning brain cell between them.

[MarkL]

Excellent article, however MY response to the spokes-twerp would have been, "A conversion kit? If they're so easy to get and use, approximately how many illegally converted 'assault weapons' have been used in crimes in the last 10 years?" It seems to me that if they have been used, we'd be hearing about them in the press, over and over and over again.

Mark

[DJ Taylor]

"In short, it's not enough."

Yes, it's obvious from the drawing that several more parts and fittings would have to be made before the thing stood a chance of working.

The ad has been running for years now, and I always figured it was just ATF trolling for a dummy.

[MarkL]

Of course, such a weapon would be extremely dangerous to everyone--including the shooter. For safe operation, locked-breach firearms need a mechanism to ensure that a round cannot be fired before be breech is locked. This is typically handled by disconnecting the trigger from the sear until the bolt carrier is fully forward. Disabling this mechanism may cause such a firearm to fire full auto, but only until it jams on an improperly-ejected or loaded cartridge, blows up from a ruptured casing, stops because the hammer either falls before it can fire a round or else snags on the bolt carrier, or has some other calamity.

Exactly... At a weekly "practicle shooting" match, one of the competitors had a 1911 where the disconnector broke, and on the first trigger pull, all 9 rounds (8+1) were discharged... After a moment's pause, he dropped the magazine and began to reload, but the RSO grabbed him and called a DQ... Pretty cool to watch, actually. But extremely dangerous.

Mark

[DTogo]

That's one thing I really like about many of the FoxNews male journalists: they've actually served in uniform (Jim Angle and Brian Wilson come to mind, though I could be mistaken).

[lonedawg]

This thing is a POS. it just uses the recoil of the rifle to cause you to pull the trigger again. If you put the rifle to your shoulder it won't work

[F-117A]

Hit and Bumped too!!

[lonedawg]

In the infamous bank robbery in LA you had two real life bank robbers with fully automatic rifles going bonkers , but in the end the only people killed were the robbers. Granted they caused a lot of injury and caused quite a stir but there was the mass slaying the lefties would lead one to believe is inevitable.

[GSlob]

All it takes is a length of a steel wire [large paper clip would do] to tie the rear hammer hook of AK47 in the depressed [backward] position. If only the front hammer hook is operational, then one has an illegal machine gun. Your hoplophobe was ignorant and illiterate, that's all.

[XR7]

All it takes is a length of a steel wire [large paper clip would do] to tie the rear hammer hook of AK47 in the depressed [backward] position. If only the front hammer hook is operational, then one has an illegal machine gun.

Cool.

[BudgieRamone]

AS a machinist and gun shop employee, I got asked about this frequently.

Depends on the gun. Depends on the skill level of the machinist/gunsmith. Depends on the determination of the individual doing the "conversion".

Personally I wouldn't want to risk it. Heck there are enough laws on the books that I don't know about that I could be breaking; why would I want to break the ones I do know about and jeopardize my being able to work in my chosen trade or being able to participate in a hobby I enjoy?

JM2B