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Kerry Pressing Swiftboat Case, Long After Loss ["They lied and lied and lied about everything,"]
New York Times ^

Posted on 05/27/2006 10:22:00 AM PDT by Sub-Driver

Kerry Pressing Swiftboat Case, Long After Loss By KATE ZERNIKE

John Kerry starts by showing the entry in a log he kept from 1969: "Feb 12: 0800 run to Cambodia."

He moves on to the photographs: his boat leaving the base at Ha Tien, Vietnam; the harbor; the mountains fading frame by frame as the boat heads north; the special operations team the boat was ferrying across the border; the men reading maps and setting off flares.

"They gave me a hat," Mr. Kerry says. "I have the hat to this day," he declares, rising to pull it from his briefcase. "I have the hat."

Three decades after the Vietnam War and nearly two years after Mr. Kerry's failed presidential bid, most Americans have probably forgotten why it ever mattered whether he went to Cambodia or that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth accused him of making it all up, saying he was dishonest and lacked patriotism.

But among those who were on the frontlines of the 2004 campaign, the battle over Mr. Kerry's wartime service continues, out of the limelight but in some ways more heatedly — because unlike then, Mr. Kerry has fully engaged in the fight. Only those on Mr. Kerry's side, however, have gathered new evidence to prove their case.

The Swift boat group continues to spend money on Washington consultants, according to public records, and last fall it gave $100,000 to a group that promptly sued Mr. Kerry, a Democratic senator from Massachusetts, for allegedly interfering with the release of a film that was critical of him.

Some of the principals behind the Swift boat group continue to press their claims.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 180; 2004; ahat; aintfondajohn; butbutbutihaveahat; christmasincambodia; christmasncambodia; closetocambodia; gaykerry; hanoijohnny; huntstastesgood; iaintfondajohn; iaintfondakerry; ichabodcrane; kerrydefeat; kerryisacoward; kerrylied; kerryshotteeninback; liar; liarliarliar; liarliarpantsonfire; lookinthemirror; lurch; lyingtraitor; msmwishlist; nuggiesonthehead; nytcarryinghiswater; oddmanout; patholiar; pathologicalliar; pleasestandup; ricebutt; shaddup; signthe180; soreloserman; swiftboats; swiftboatvets; swifties; terayzasboytoy; totalfraudkerry; traetorkerry; traitorkerry; truthorconsequences; tryhuntsketchup; unfit; unfitforcommand; weaselman; wheresteresa; whine; whoistheliarhmmmmmmm; willtherealliar; wintersoldier
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1 posted on 05/27/2006 10:22:04 AM PDT by Sub-Driver
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To: Sub-Driver

Wow....a hat...


2 posted on 05/27/2006 10:23:31 AM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: Sub-Driver
Hey, hey, ho, ho, Kerry: sign the one-eight-oh. What chutzpah making this an issue on Memorial Day.
3 posted on 05/27/2006 10:23:37 AM PDT by NonValueAdded ("Too soon to remember??? How about TOO SOON TO FORGET!" from Mr. Silverback)
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To: Sub-Driver

May we see your discharge papers, Senator? ( We continue to press charges too)


4 posted on 05/27/2006 10:24:31 AM PDT by llevrok (Stop the Latin Insurgents !!!)
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To: P-40

A Magic Hat.


5 posted on 05/27/2006 10:25:14 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Build the fence. SŪ, Se Puede!)
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To: Sub-Driver

The lying loser just can't handle being exposed as a fraud and a scumbag. POS. I spit on him.


6 posted on 05/27/2006 10:25:55 AM PDT by butternut_squash_bisque (The recipe's at my FR HomePage. Try it!)
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To: Sub-Driver

Oh, my mistake. I forgot that was the year Christmas was celebrated on Lincoln's birthday. I must sear that into my memory.


7 posted on 05/27/2006 10:25:59 AM PDT by NonValueAdded ("Too soon to remember??? How about TOO SOON TO FORGET!" from Mr. Silverback)
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To: Sub-Driver

ooh - Frenchie getting frisky.


8 posted on 05/27/2006 10:26:27 AM PDT by don-o
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To: Sub-Driver

I think I know what Eric Cartman would say in this situation...


9 posted on 05/27/2006 10:26:51 AM PDT by NinoFan
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To: Sub-Driver
"They lied and lied and lied about everything," Mr. Kerry says in an interview in his Senate office. "How many lies do you get to tell before someone calls you a liar?

He's begining to sound like Lawrence O'Donnell

10 posted on 05/27/2006 10:27:56 AM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: Sub-Driver

Kerry needs to stay in his own wacked out yard.


11 posted on 05/27/2006 10:28:07 AM PDT by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: Sub-Driver

I have a hat that says "FBI". That does not mean that I have any relationship with the FBI.


12 posted on 05/27/2006 10:28:37 AM PDT by LetsRok
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To: Sub-Driver

I coulda been a contenduh...


13 posted on 05/27/2006 10:28:43 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Sub-Driver
 

Kerry has NEVER SIGNED HIS 180 RELEASE FOR THE PUBLIC TO KNOW THE TRUTH!! Then again, he's a DEMONRAT!!! What do you expect from the party of sleaze, deception and Big Media propaganda!

  · DNC-China Threat (15)
  · 
DNC-Corruption (20)
  · 
DNC-Racism (14)
  · 
DNC-Treason (12)
  · 
DNC-Vote Fraud (9)

Treason and corruption are absolutely NOTHING NEW to the Democrats. However their media outlets RARELY cover this.

 

14 posted on 05/27/2006 10:29:24 AM PDT by woodb01 (ANTI-DNC Web Portal at ---> http://www.noDNC.com)
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To: llevrok

All Senator Kerry has to do is to release his form 180. Why is that so difficult?


15 posted on 05/27/2006 10:29:41 AM PDT by kjo
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"How many times can you be exposed in America today?"

Sounds like Kerry wants to go for the record.

16 posted on 05/27/2006 10:30:12 AM PDT by D-fendr
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To: NonValueAdded

Kerry is a LOSER


17 posted on 05/27/2006 10:30:13 AM PDT by Doc Hunter
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To: llevrok
More

Mr. Kerry has signed forms authorizing the Navy to release his record — something he resisted during the campaign — and hired a researcher to comb the naval archives in Washington for records that could pinpoint his whereabouts during dates of the incidents in dispute. Another former crewmember has spent days at a time interviewing veterans to reconstruct every incident in question.

Then what is the hold up?

18 posted on 05/27/2006 10:30:19 AM PDT by don-o
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To: Sub-Driver
John Kerry starts by showing the entry in a log he kept from 1969: "Feb 12: 0800 run to Cambodia."

Feb 12: 1130 e-mailed progress rpt to to Pres Nixon.

Feb 12: 1330 observed B-2 stealth bomber attack on civilians.

Feb 12: 1600 listened to new Beatles CD.

19 posted on 05/27/2006 10:30:26 AM PDT by Sloth (We cannot defeat foreign enemies of the Constitution if we yield to the domestic ones.)
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To: Sub-Driver

All hat and no credibility.


20 posted on 05/27/2006 10:30:51 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

pigarooney


21 posted on 05/27/2006 10:30:54 AM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: woodb01

What do you mean Dem media outlets (ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, NPR, PBS, NYTs, WaPo) rarely cover their treason and corruption? THEY NEVER COVER IT.

Still waiting for Sixty Minutes to look into Congressman Jefferson. Oh, that case is ALL about separation of powers?

Nothing to see here, move along.


22 posted on 05/27/2006 10:32:26 AM PDT by kjo
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To: Sub-Driver
Seems to me if there was all this libel and slander going on that Mr. Kerry would have a heck of a court case against these guys.

Well Frenchy maybe it's time you brought those liars to court.

/src

23 posted on 05/27/2006 10:32:44 AM PDT by sinclair (a nation of sheep will always produce governments of wolves)
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To: llevrok

You won't get the discharge papers...they just beg more questions. He can't admit to whatever he did.


24 posted on 05/27/2006 10:32:48 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: NonValueAdded

"I forgot that was the year Christmas was celebrated on Lincoln's birthday"

With drunk, non-Christian Cambodians doing the celebrating.


25 posted on 05/27/2006 10:32:54 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: don-o

I think I remember reading that he had only released the records to the Washington Post, which in turn, promised not to print anything they discovered.


26 posted on 05/27/2006 10:33:05 AM PDT by MarkeyD (Make Love, Not Cartoons. I really, really loathe liberals.)
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To: Sub-Driver
Naval records and accounts from other sailors contradicted almost every claim they made, and some members of the group who had earlier praised Mr. Kerry's heroism contradicted themselves.

Parts of this article read like a campaign press release. The NY Times is really going to bat for Kerry -- hopefully this will encourage him to run again.

27 posted on 05/27/2006 10:33:15 AM PDT by 68skylark
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To: Sub-Driver
"They lied and lied and lied about everything," Mr. Kerry says in an interview in his Senate office. "How many lies do you get to tell before someone calls you a liar? How many times can you be exposed in America today?"

How many times can you call someone a liar without ending up in court, where records can be subpoenaed? You can call a politician a liar without much worry, it comes with the territory, but calling private citizens liars is grounds for a defamation lawsuit.

28 posted on 05/27/2006 10:34:03 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: Sub-Driver
"John Kerry starts by showing the entry in a log he kept from 1969: "Feb 12: 0800 run to Cambodia."



Hey sKerry, how long did it take to forge that?
29 posted on 05/27/2006 10:34:19 AM PDT by Jameison
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To: Sub-Driver

Is Kerry still married to Mrs. Heinz?


30 posted on 05/27/2006 10:34:49 AM PDT by zeaal (SPREAD TRUTH!)
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To: Sub-Driver
Release your full records, twit, and then maybe we'll pay a little attention to your BS.

Until then, you are a fraud in the eyes of all of us that served in Viet Nam.

31 posted on 05/27/2006 10:34:52 AM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: 68skylark

You can bet this was timed for release on memorial day weekend precisely because he intends to run for the presidency again.

He is attemping pre emtive Damage control for 08


32 posted on 05/27/2006 10:35:40 AM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: Sub-Driver

So, they gave him a hat. Big deal. Not highly significant. We just had a baby shower for a new supervisor and his wife. The fact that we bought gifts for them doesn't mean we like him professionally. [We don't.] We do it for everyone on staff.


33 posted on 05/27/2006 10:36:07 AM PDT by Clara Lou (A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged by reality. --I. Kristol)
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To: kjo
All Senator Kerry has to do is to release his form 180.

He has released a form 180. He even signed it. It's just a form allowing realease of one's military records. Of course he only allowed release to his pet writer from a Boston newspaper, IIRC. He did not allow a release to the public.

34 posted on 05/27/2006 10:36:12 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: Sub-Driver
Members of the Swift boat group have not seen Mr. Kerry's newly gathered evidence. But they seem unwilling to cede much.

Mr. O'Neill said he "would be thrilled to look at anything he wants to send." Still, he added, "I'm sorry he never apologized for his 1971 speech," referring to Mr. Kerry's testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, in which he told other soldiers' accounts of ravaging Vietnamese villages and citizens. "I think it would have been a very positive thing to do in terms of the many thousands of people who survived Vietnam and felt that was very hurtful."

35 posted on 05/27/2006 10:36:21 AM PDT by TeleStraightShooter (The Right To Take Life is NOT a Constitutional "Liberty" protected by the 14th Amendment)
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To: mylife
...precisely because he intends to run for the presidency again.

Great news!

36 posted on 05/27/2006 10:36:56 AM PDT by 68skylark
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To: Sloth
Feb 12: 1600 listened to new Beatles CD.

Feb 13: 1700 Emailed friends in N.Y.

37 posted on 05/27/2006 10:37:24 AM PDT by alrea
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To: Sub-Driver
I could buy the exact same friggin' hat at the Supply Sergeant surplus store up on East Colfax. Big fat hairy, deal, John - SHOW US YOUR RECORDS.
38 posted on 05/27/2006 10:37:29 AM PDT by WardMClark (Semi-Notorious Political Gadfly)
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To: doorgunner69

We have seen his type before.
Oooorah.
tet.


39 posted on 05/27/2006 10:37:31 AM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: don-o
Mr. Kerry has signed forms authorizing the Navy to release his record — something he resisted during the campaign — and hired a researcher to comb the naval archives in Washington for records that could pinpoint his whereabouts during dates of the incidents in dispute. Another former crewmember has spent days at a time interviewing veterans to reconstruct every incident in question.

Then what is the hold up?

He only authorized release to his pet writer, not to the general public, not even to the news media in general.

40 posted on 05/27/2006 10:37:42 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Kerry traitor ping


41 posted on 05/27/2006 10:37:44 AM PDT by FairOpinion (Dem Foreign Policy: SURRENDER to our enemies. Real conservatives don't help Dems get elected.)
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To: Sub-Driver

I'd welcome letting the SWBV have their day in court. Let's see who's facts stand up. Of course, FULL disclosure of Kerry's war records would need to be requested by the defense which he was unwilling to provide during the campaign.


42 posted on 05/27/2006 10:37:49 AM PDT by Tall_Texan (I wish a political party would come along that thinks like I do.)
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To: Sub-Driver
Mr. Kerry has signed forms authorizing the Navy to release his record — something he resisted during the campaign — and hired a researcher to comb the naval archives in Washington for records that could pinpoint his whereabouts during dates of the incidents in dispute. Another former crewmember has spent days at a time interviewing veterans to reconstruct every incident in question.

The key to him still not signing SF-180 is "Mr. Kerry has signed forms". SF-180 would release all records! But I believe that this was lie before in the campaign. That he had signed for the navy to release "some" of his records, but refused to sign SF-180 because the whole story would be known! Also by hiring a personal researcher instead of letting the public see all the records, he's still trying to whitewash his lies and possible atrocities committed!

43 posted on 05/27/2006 10:37:50 AM PDT by Bommer (Attention illegals: Why don't you do the jobs we can't do? Like fix your own countries problems!)
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To: 68skylark
The NY Times is really going to bat for Kerry
Putz Shulzberger recognizes a loser like himself and offers full support.
44 posted on 05/27/2006 10:38:04 AM PDT by Clara Lou (A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged by reality. --I. Kristol)
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To: Sub-Driver

Kerry sign his DOD-180 yet?


45 posted on 05/27/2006 10:38:14 AM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (Memo to GOP: Don't ask me for any more money until you secure our Southern border.)
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To: Sub-Driver

I sent them money a month ago. That POS Kerry is trying to bankrupt them in courts.


46 posted on 05/27/2006 10:38:27 AM PDT by cibco (www.streachfuelmileage.shorturl.com)
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To: Sub-Driver

This nut case is going to run again.


47 posted on 05/27/2006 10:38:46 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Jesus on Immigration, John 10:1)
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To: MarkeyD; backhoe
I think I remember reading that he had only released the records to the Washington Post,

Anyone have this?

No matter what one might think of the WaPo, if they had it, I am sure that some enterprising reporter would get it out. Does not pass the smeel test, imo.

48 posted on 05/27/2006 10:39:11 AM PDT by don-o
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To: Sub-Driver

American Quisling... sadly, one of many.


49 posted on 05/27/2006 10:40:21 AM PDT by johnny7 (ďNah, I ainít Jewish, I just donít dig on swine, thatís all.Ē)
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To: Sub-Driver

skerry's a grade A #1 skunk.


50 posted on 05/27/2006 10:40:34 AM PDT by lilylangtree
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