Posted on 05/28/2006 7:41:28 AM PDT by gallaxyglue
I've spent most of my adult life with immigrants as an ESL instructor and coordinator. I have seen many highly-educated people (generally from Europe and Asia) enter this country. Some have elected to become citizens, some have not. But the particular sector I am refering to has come here with the skills and ability to master the English language. Some have become so proficient that they might pass for British or even native-born North American.
However, there is a huge number that I have taught that are (relatively) uneducated, or even illiterate. in their native language. This means that they cannot even read a newspaper, no matter WHAT the language.Their lives in the United States are hard and often chaotic. The attend English class sporadically, and, most typically, drop out. Many, due to age or opportunity or ability, reach a plateau (which we call fossilization); they cannot progress in English, no matter how hard they try. The fact is that there are people who have been here long enough that they can take the citizenship exam in their native language (Spanish, Chinese, etc.) English is not required.
This segment of the population will NEVER be bilingual. There are many questions to consider if we have English Only legislation. (1) They will never master enough English to pass a citizenship exam. (2) They will not be literate enough to understand newsworthy items. How can they vote if they are illiterate, neaning illinformed? (3) This problem will not pass with a second generation (their children) because such people continue to pour across our borders.
It is a serious problem to consider.
Welcome to FR.
I have also taught the children of migrant farm workers in rural Washington who were illiterate in Spanish, making teaching extremely difficult.
Now living in San Francisco where my daughter attends a school that is 80% Asian (with many parents who speak only Manderin) I can tell you that the children rapidly become bilingual.
The problem is whether or not the parents wish their children to integrate. If so, the children integrate quite easily.
First question: What are they doing here? We don't need more illiterate uneducated people who are beyond help?
Second question: What did you teach them?
Third question: Did you report them to the immigration authorities?
This is just the kind of real world insight we live for at Free Republic. Welcome aboard.
I was not aware of the "fossilization" plateau, but I know from my own experience, learning some of the most basic skills, such as driving, or operating simple electronic equipment is virtually impossible for people that have spent their whole lives in a much simpler lifestyle, hence the horrific driving we witness daily from some illegals.
It is not, in fact, stupidity, it is just a whole different way of thinking that is not technically oriented. Would you agree?
The answers to your questions are complex. Depending on age, some come to work in menial jobs (gardening, sanitation). Others, who are older, are bought over by their grown children as family. Of course, I teach English as a Second Language. Some classes and students have been very advanced; other classes struggle with basic survival English. And I have never reported anything to immigration or naturalization. I never question my students if they are legal or illegal (although I usually find out.) The inability to speak or learn English is not a crime. I wonder what implications it has for our society.
I agree totally. The requirements that government and industry assume will be met are totally unrealestic.
There being here is a crime and not reporting them should be a crime also.
There = Their
Apparently they are not the only ones struggling with illiteracy.
I think there is also a matter of expectations involved here. As a country, we expect those from other countries to learn English, except if they are from Mexico, in which case we give then the crutch of bi-lingual education. I see bi-lingual education as a patronizing way to give a second-class education to Spanish speaking individuals. Those kids should be in English immersion from day 1.
I cannot disagree that illegal immigrants have committed a crime. However, the inability to speak English is not a crime. Are you suggesting that I am a criminal if I do not report a student I know to be illegal? My job is to teach English and citizenship. I am not hiring these people to do a job. Am I accessory to a crime? Please inform me of the law as you understand it.
Is it my imagination or was this thread, along with the poster zotted earlier this morning?
I did not know that posts and/or posters could come back from the land of ZOT.
I agree. The trick is to prepare them in Standard English, not some Spanglish or street English. If they emerge from school with the ability to read, write, and speak Standard, that's what we all want. But. let me ask you a question: What do you think happens in a typical situation?
My sister taught ESL in Manhattan for a time.
She was so impressed by the students showing up in suits and ties, the ladies in dresses and heels, and always prepared.
Of course, the students she taught had gone through the lengthy process of legal immigration and were just grateful to be in the US and on their way to becoming citizens.
Transpose that against the mess in LA, Arizona and Texas and those sneaking over the border to live in enclaves that resemble the towns they fled. They have no intention of assimilating. I was lost while driving in LA in 1999, found myself in a Mexican area, and that was one frightening experience. The hatred is palpable and evident.
We have situation where tribalism is displacing national American identity.
Don't worry. There will be no stringent requirements by the time this bill is vomit(t)ed forth. It'll be "Y'all Come" and "Here are the keys to the city."
It was ZOTTED and came back from the dead. Go figure.
What was it like in the Land of Zot? Is it true that everything is grayscale and the trees have no vegetation on them? And there's kind of a burnt smell?
Very few people survive the Land of Zot.
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