Posted on 05/29/2006 6:12:03 PM PDT by Marli
I in no way said at any time it cannot be true. Indeed it could be but Innocent until proven guilty is the way to go forward.
Sure we can only control our own behavior, I agree with that. I offer you this though. I am sick and tired of the level of outrage expressed against the USA by our own people and others around the world for something that might or might not have happened when those same folks say nothing day after day after day when our enemy factually targets unsuspecting civilians as their target of choice.
The fact that these folks do not oppose our enemy's factual actions in the same way they oppose our own soldiers supposed actions reduces their credability as the messenger they act as.
SO, if our soldiers are shown thru a fair trial they did something they should not have, I agree punishment is due. KNow this though, accusation, speculation and posing the "what if" as if it is proven fact harms our troops, their morale, and the general image of our goals. ALl this goes on while our enemy actually does this every day and somehow they get a free pass in the media and even on these forum boards.
I understand where you might feel the need to defend sink's position,but I offer to you that sink takes the very same position in regards to illegal immigration. Excuses for those that commit the illegal acts as a goal an expects the USA to be held to some standard above those that act in that way.
IMHO it is time to stand firm towards those that will side with others based on partial and speculative information while dismissing what criminals terrorists and our other enemies do everyday when facts are there to show what they are doing.
Tony Blair said a while back something that really rang loudly to me. Bad things will always happen, there is no way to avoid it entirely. The measure of a society is how they deal with those things when they do happen. As for Abu Graib, some improper things did take place. Torture was a catch phrase that went far and beyond what actually took place but we still watched as we policed our own and doled out punishments for actions done.
I am left to wonder where the praise is for taking this action and why those that demanded punishment for US soldiers are not calling now for punishment of Abu Musab al Zarqawi for actions like Nick Berg's killing. Where is the outrage expressed about that to match that of outrage over Abu Graib? See, there is no comparison between the expressed outrage of these two examples.
Look at the outrage over something that is speculation!! Compare that to the dismissal of daily car bombings against civilians. Let me know when the level of outrage is anything close to being even.
I bet if you did a poll fewer than one in ten Americans would even know what we are talking about. They know nothing of this case.
There is no outrage over what the Jihadis do because everyone in this country has such low expectations for them that they never fail to meet them. Their behavior is expected. If we were to start behaving like them, then many Americans would express outrage because that behavior would not be in synch with what we believe Americans do.
I suggest if you guys want to support the troops you go to sites where these anti-American folks hang out and piss them off when they make stupid anti-american statements. But some of the people here to whom this has to be a MSM conspiracy and even if they did it, so what, make the rest of us conservatives look like idiots.
The quote above comes from the Gettysburg Address, not the Constitution. We are a Republic. We select our government and they make decisions on our behalf. They dont necessarily do our bidding, nor were they created to do so. They are supposed to use their judgement and do what is best for the country, not just take the latest poll numbers and turn them into policy.
Governments must give presumption of innocence in the way they treat prisoners. The lay public does not have to and if you watch any TV, you know they dont. Most have a pretty good idea of guilt prior to any trial. I surprised we can find any one who doesnt have a preconceived idea or is willing to weigh the evidence.
If the allegations turn out to be gratuitous and unfounded, do you advocate trying the allegator so that the allegatee can recover damages to his reputation?
I think the ones that find themselveslooking like idiots are ones that ignore equality. Day after day and month after month I see opposition to the USA for this incident and that incident.
OK that is fine, I can understand that and the reasons for it, including the one you offered in your post. I offer that it is time to start looking at this objectively and evenly. Jihadis are to be held to the same standards we are when it comes to human rights and the international rules of war.
If we are operating within those rules with some mistakes and the jihadis are not then I offer it needs to be talked about in that light. The point I am trying to make is that it is utterly rediculous to make so much out of a couple incidents to the point it gives the impression we are doing this kind of thing all over the country and all over the world all the time. After all it isn't us that is doing such a thing and it IS the jihadis.
People may expect the jihadis to act in this way but that is a cop out when it comes to using that as an excuse not to rail against them as the USA is railed against for such limited incidents especially when proven those incidents are prosecuted.....not to mention rail against the USA when indeed all that exists are acusation that are to date unproven.
As for a poll and Americans knowing about what we are discussing.....one reason they do not know is because of the way the press presents what is happening. Not unlike some posters here and elsewhere on the internet present things like this.
When more folks point out that jihadis are doing this evey day and the outrage needs to be sent their way instead of "expecting"it from them we all will be better off.
Teorrorists do what they do because people make excuses for them. They will continue to do what they do until the world stands united against them and they are crushed and abhored by all that oppose them. They use "hold the USA to a higher standard" as a great propaganda product. The very sad thing is that people buy into that without even thinking that is what they are doing.
I argue that we are all equal and we should all be held to the same standards. Equality is what America stands for right?
On the surface, that seems like a generally good idea. I'm not sure how it would work in practice, though. If there a hearing and a trial, the "allegator" (to use your word) will probably be the U.S. Marine Corps. And if there's a not guilty verdict it's hard to see how the USMC should pay damages if they acted in good faith.
I suspect you'd rather go after Murtha and other commentators who are talking about this case. As repugnant as we find these people, I don't see how anyone could legally go after them just for making comments.
These people know the rules of evidence as well as anyone. They all probably know the ins and outs of logical fallacies better than most.
My accusation is that they disregard rigorous analysis and insinuate reprehensible behavior to others in order to advance their own agendas or to enrich themselves.
Once their allegations are proved to be false, would you endorse pursuing them with libel charges?
You're talking about Rep. Murtha, right?
No, I doubt he meets the technical definition of libel. I'd rather see him lose his seat in an election -- that's where these things should be decided, not in court.
The left wants to criminalize speech that they don't agree with, or at least tie up their opponents in court. I don't think those of us on the right should go down that path with them.
Does that mean, "No?"
Yeah, I guess it does.
You have no idea what I think so quit trying. What an idiotic argument. How about Innocent until proven Guilty? You don't have the right to lick their boots so go back to the DNC and Support the Troops there.
Pray for W and Our Brave Marines
Spoilsport :)
But it seems to me perfectly plausible they simply hoped their version would be accepted by superiors eager to put it behind them. That it did not work precisely because some did have the integrity not to settle for such excuses and kept digging.
I'd love to be wrong. But realistically, when you put thousands of very young men in charge of life or death situations for years, we should not be surprised if occasionally one of them screws the pooch. Which in no way excuses one who did so, nor establishes that it happened in this case. But the idea that is cannot possibly have happened, is naive.
You nailed it. James "Serpent Head" Carville started that ball rolling this morning on the Today show, using almost those exact words.
Army Times, Marine (Corps?) Times, Air Force Times and the Navy Times are all owned by Gannett, owners of USA Today. They have a very left wing, anti-military, pro-homosexual bias and any knowlesgeable service member will tell you these rags folow suit
knowlesgeable=knowledgeable. Me sleepy now. Me go to bed.
If our guys "removed the bodies", why do all the videos from the "Iraqi Human Rights Group" show them being removed by locals?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.