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Mural may not be welcomed back to school
Stamford Advocate ^ | Keach Hagey

Posted on 06/04/2006 2:35:28 PM PDT by Pharmboy


Mary Ellen LeBien, former president of the Greenwich Library Board of Trustees, speaks in front of “The Life and Times of
Israel Putnam of Connecticut” in the library’s reading room. (Bob Luckey Jr./Staff file photo)

School officials are balking at a plan to return a historic Revolutionary War mural to Hamilton Avenue Magnet School after a restoration, saying its battle scenes are too violent for young children.

The mural, "The Life and Times of General Israel Putnam of Connecticut," depicts Greenwich's Revolutionary War hero stripped half-naked, about to be burned at the stake. He sits astride a wild-looking horse and is aiming his musket at snarling wolves, while all around him Native Americans hurl tomahawks and men armed with prominent guns and knives tussle. It was painted by James Daugherty of Weston.

"It's a beautiful work of art, but I think it's a beautiful work of art for adults," Hamilton Avenue School Principal Damaris Rau said. "I don't think it's something that children should be looking at on a daily basis because it is very violent."

Commissioned by the Works Progress Administration under President Roosevelt in 1935, the painting belongs to the town and was first hung in the First Selectman's Office at the old Town Hall. Five years later, it was moved to the gymnasium of the Hamilton Avenue school, where it hung for nearly 60 years, through an arrangement in which the school acted as the custodian of the artwork for the town.

(Excerpt) Read more at stamfordadvocate.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Connecticut
KEYWORDS: art; israelputnam; libertarians; milhist; mural; revolutionarywar; revwar; zerotolerance
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Putnam was a great patriot. This is insane...
1 posted on 06/04/2006 2:35:30 PM PDT by Pharmboy
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To: Pharmboy

"School officials are balking at a plan to return a historic Revolutionary War mural to Hamilton Avenue Magnet School after a restoration, saying its battle scenes are too violent for young children."

Too violent for young children? Guess these school officials haven't noticed what's on television nowadays.


2 posted on 06/04/2006 2:40:15 PM PDT by LibSnubber (Liberal democrats are domestic terrorists)
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To: Pharmboy

I would bet the problem is not that the mural is too violent but that the depiction of the Native Americans is not properly PC. (They are supposed to be helping plan Thanksgiving.)


3 posted on 06/04/2006 2:40:33 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: Pharmboy

My collateral ancestor - leave the mural up - Patriot pride!

Mrs VS


4 posted on 06/04/2006 2:40:55 PM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: Pharmboy
Oh, but the Virgin Mary can be displayed with urine, elephant dung, and condoms stamped over her ......

Paid by taxpayer dollars, with no "adult supervision" label.

A row of photographs of a88holes can be paid by taxpayer money, displayed openly in an art gallery in public, but not a Revolutionary War hero.
5 posted on 06/04/2006 2:43:30 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: madprof98

Nah, he killed wolves.


If wasn't for Putnam , wolves and men would be living in perfect harmony today.


6 posted on 06/04/2006 2:44:29 PM PDT by razorback-bert (Kooks For Kinky)
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To: Pharmboy
"It's a beautiful work of art, but I think it's a beautiful work of art for adults," Hamilton Avenue School Principal Damaris Rau said. "I don't think it's something that children should be looking at on a daily basis because it is very violent."

I bet this same library has a copy of Heather has two Mommies on the shelf. That is of course appropriate for children according to the same mindset that says a 60 year old murial is not.
7 posted on 06/04/2006 2:45:11 PM PDT by Timedrifter
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To: indcons; Chani; thefactor; blam; aculeus; ELS; Doctor Raoul; mainepatsfan; timpad; ...

Israel Putnam escaping from the British Dragoons down the steps in Greenwich.

RevWar/Colonial History/General Washington ping list (FreepMail me if you want to be placed on or taken off this list)

8 posted on 06/04/2006 2:48:17 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

EXCELLENT point...


9 posted on 06/04/2006 2:49:30 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must)
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To: Republicanprofessor

Perhaps you can comment on the artworthiness of this. I like it...


10 posted on 06/04/2006 2:50:28 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must)
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To: VeritatisSplendor

That's some pretty good blood to have in the family. General Putnam was a true living legend at the time of the revolution.


11 posted on 06/04/2006 2:54:20 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must)
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To: Pharmboy

Here's an idea: Wrap every child under the age of 18 in cotton batting and continually feed them Valium. That way except for addiction to Valium no harm can come to them. Sheesh! This world had gone completely INSANE !! I'm sick, sick, sick of hearing nonsense like this!


12 posted on 06/04/2006 2:55:11 PM PDT by proudofthesouth (Mao said that power comes at the point of a rifle; I say FREEDOM does.)
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To: Pharmboy
I am so diametrically opposed to the viewpoints of those seeking to "protect" these children that I am going to state what I really believe.

I think the mural is exactly the kind of thing those children need to see. What about bringing our young up to understand that real sacrifices were made to give them the kind of life they enjoy today? What about imbuing a sense of real history within them? What about introducing in an easily-grasped manner aesthetic concepts that depict sacrifice and struggle? Haven't we been decrying the lack of the development of critical thinking in the education of our young recently? Haven't both the SAT and ACT college entrance exams both been reworked recently to place greater emphasis upon critical thinking?

I could go on, but I think I'll just stop here and take a "timeout."
13 posted on 06/04/2006 2:56:08 PM PDT by StJacques
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To: StJacques

Yep--that's why I "home school" my kids in American History and do not trust the schools one whit.


14 posted on 06/04/2006 2:58:24 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must)
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To: LibSnubber
Guess these school officials haven't noticed what's on television nowadays.

Or, I'd wager, in many of the books in that library.

15 posted on 06/04/2006 2:59:56 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
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To: madprof98
I would bet the problem is not that the mural is too violent but that the depiction of the Native Americans is not properly PC.

I would bet the same. They don't want this mural for the same reason that thye would never want a collage of photos of the only twelve people to ever walk on the moon.

16 posted on 06/04/2006 3:00:08 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Pharmboy
"Yep--that's why I "home school" my kids in American History and do not trust the schools one whit."

Whaaatttt???

Don't you realize your kids may not ever learn of the great contributions to our society of gays and lesbians?

Don't you fear that your children may never learn that Columbus arrived in the New World intent on genocide?

Has it occurred to you that your kids may not understand that America was founded as a racist society?

Think about all of this Pharmboy. It may soon be too late!

/sarcasm
17 posted on 06/04/2006 3:05:39 PM PDT by StJacques
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To: StJacques
LOL!

Along with my lessons and trips to historic areas with my kids, I tell them NOT to correct their teachers in American History (other than the REALLY egregious errors).

18 posted on 06/04/2006 3:08:56 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must)
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To: madprof98
Heaven Forbid that children learn History!! For shame, suggesting such atrocious proposition!
19 posted on 06/04/2006 3:28:37 PM PDT by TrogdortheBurninator (Masters, remember that I am an ass: though it be not written down, yet forget not that I am an ass!)
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To: LibSnubber
Too violent for young children? Guess these school officials haven't noticed what's on television nowadays.

No. They know what's on TeeVee...What they don't like is perhaps a bit of history being taught, through art, what the real world is and has been. TeeVee is much more malleable for the little mushbrains...

FMCDH(BITS)

20 posted on 06/04/2006 3:30:57 PM PDT by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: VeritatisSplendor

The commander of British forces inquired as to what kind of adversary he faced on Breed's Hill that day. He was told,

"Sir, Israel Putnam will fight you to the gates of Hell!"


21 posted on 06/04/2006 3:56:25 PM PDT by elcid1970
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To: Pharmboy
Hamilton Avenue School Principal Damaris Rau said. "I don't think it's something that children should be looking at on a daily basis because it is very violent."

Just look at all the violence it has caused in the last 66+ years that it hung at the school.
22 posted on 06/04/2006 4:18:03 PM PDT by 20yearvet (they yell for more tests as long as its your money)
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To: Pharmboy

Strange that it was fine for all those years prior. Hm.


23 posted on 06/04/2006 4:19:05 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: proudofthesouth

I think they're already doing that.


24 posted on 06/04/2006 4:29:26 PM PDT by freema (Proud Marine FRiend, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: Pharmboy

Flame away, LOL!

It's a K-5 school, and I don't really remember people going in schools with guns 66 years ago, nor did we have the $#!+ on television 66 years ago.

On the other hand..
I know all of the homeschoolers let their kids watch MTV, right? So what's the problem?

Don't mind me, I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing.


25 posted on 06/04/2006 4:38:44 PM PDT by freema (Proud Marine FRiend, Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: proudofthesouth

"Here's an idea: Wrap every child under the age of 18 in cotton batting and continually feed them Valium. That way except for addiction to Valium no harm can come to them. Sheesh! This world had gone completely INSANE !! I'm sick, sick, sick of hearing nonsense like this!"

Funny you should mention that: John Brunner, himself a liberal, wrote a science fiction novel, The Shockwave Rider, about a world where that was done. It's one of the books that got me interested in computers, way back when. (It was published in 1975)


26 posted on 06/04/2006 4:47:47 PM PDT by Old Student (WRM, MSgt, USAF(Ret.))
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To: Pharmboy

I am happy to say that I am related to Old Put...my great grandmother was a descendant (great, great, great whatever granddaughter). The same people saying this is too violent would be the ones insisting we should acquaint kids with sex education at four years old.


27 posted on 06/04/2006 4:52:43 PM PDT by t2buckeye
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To: t2buckeye

Hi, cuz.

Mrs VS


28 posted on 06/04/2006 5:08:13 PM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
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To: t2buckeye; VeritatisSplendor

I am happy that this thread could get a few of Old Put's relatives together...


29 posted on 06/04/2006 5:14:03 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must)
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To: VeritatisSplendor

Hello back.. Israel Putnam's portrait is hanging in one of the historical buildings in Philadelphia (I believe it is one of the original bank buildings near Independance Hall). Also, if you get a chance to read 1776, there is quite a bit about him too...he was quite a guy!


30 posted on 06/04/2006 6:19:02 PM PDT by t2buckeye
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To: Pharmboy

Ha Ha! It's quite a reunion...glad to see that his descendants have found this site!


31 posted on 06/04/2006 6:19:56 PM PDT by t2buckeye
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To: Pharmboy

In that case, I guess we need to address cop-killer lyrics and advocacy of violence (including the violent overthrow of the gov't, and assassination of the President) in the garbage passed off as music for the young.

And video games.


32 posted on 06/04/2006 7:11:52 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Pharmboy
Perhaps you can comment on the artworthiness of this. I like it...

Great post; sorry I'm a late comer to it.

I think this is a great mural of the WPA period. Not all of these murals have survived (to my knowledge) and I think each find is great. This is quite Bentonesque: with the crowded space filled with elongated figures in several scenes per section. Very exciting, colorful, and fun.

Violent? Anyone see Lord of the Rings?! This is so tame it is laughable that people would complain of the violence.

No, this is a treasure of the time period. Yes, it should generate discussions of how stereotypes are created, the history of the scenes and how they are portrayed, etc. But it also shows a triumph of our country and all that has been sacrificed. It's great; they should be proud of it.

I also have to admit that I'm another distant relative, from a cousin of Israel Putnam's. We need a reunion for sure....

33 posted on 06/04/2006 8:35:16 PM PDT by Republicanprofessor
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To: Sam Cree; Liz; Joe 6-pack; woofie; vannrox; giotto; iceskater; Conspiracy Guy; Dolphy; ...

Art ping.

Let Sam Cree, Woofie, or me know if you want on or off this ping list.


34 posted on 06/04/2006 8:36:21 PM PDT by Republicanprofessor
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To: Pharmboy

That's a remarkable painting. It looks pretty good right there at the library. It shouldn't be kept from the school based on PC considerations, though. Wonder if they allow the kiddies to read 1776 at skool? It would put the painting into the proper context. Thanks for the post.


35 posted on 06/04/2006 8:58:13 PM PDT by ntnychik
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To: Abram; albertp; AlexandriaDuke; Allosaurs_r_us; Americanwolf; Americanwolfsbrother; Annie03; ...
School officials are balking at a plan to return a historic Revolutionary War mural to Hamilton Avenue Magnet School after a restoration, saying its battle scenes are too violent for young children.

thank god the 13 year old children with guns that fought in the revolutionary war didn't think it was to violent or we would probably not have a country today

Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here

36 posted on 06/04/2006 9:43:25 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: Pharmboy
I agree with the sentiments expressed here regarding children so I won't repeat them.

I'm always particularly interested in art in all forms produced during the WPA era.

Artistically, however, viewing the mural makes me almost sea sick. If it were in a library where I wanted to read or study, I would sit with my back to it.

Leni

37 posted on 06/05/2006 4:50:09 AM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: Republicanprofessor; Pharmboy
"We are now promoting tolerance, accepting differences and all of that, and it doesn't belong in an elementary school."

That's the key, I guess, the above sickening statement, the thing is thought to be patriotic, which isn't politically correct, and, in the name of tolerance, cannot be tolerated.

"Violence is not something you see at Hamilton Avenue School," Rau said. "And then to have it in the forefront, especially in the lobby, a picture of men hurting each other and killing each other, it really goes against my sense of what children should be exposed to."

The truth is, the Left is only against violence when it is portrayed as part of the struggle for American ideals and freedom. That portrayal has to be avoided at all costs, else the kids might not grow up to be easily controlled sheep, they might grow up thinking for themselves.

38 posted on 06/05/2006 5:20:47 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Delicacy, precision, force)
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To: Sam Cree
...the thing is thought to be patriotic, which isn't politically correct, and, in the name of tolerance, cannot be tolerated.

Briliiant deconstruction, Sam.

George Orwell, call your office...

39 posted on 06/05/2006 5:24:15 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must)
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To: MinuteGal

Artistically, I agree. It has the same emotional projection as "The Scream".

Look at there size and height of it compared to that of a child. Even as an adult, to be in any room smaller than a football stadium with that painting would make me want to throw things.


40 posted on 06/05/2006 5:35:50 AM PDT by tangerine
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To: Pharmboy
Shades of Thomas Hart Benton! His pics can be kind of vertiginous . . . so much motion and wild distortion. I like 'em though, because the movement is interesting and it livens up what could be a very dull historical subject.

As Topsy said, "Somebody ain't tellin' all they knows." I don't think the real objection here is to the "violence" - the lady with the 3-4 year old kids is a wuss - but the lack of PC - savage Indians, white males all over the place on big patriarchal white horses, and not an African American, gay-lesbian-bisexual-transgendered-questioning person, or liberal in sight.

Besides - the frontier and the American Revolution WERE pretty violent, there's no getting around that unless you want to just sanitize history. If that silly lady would tell her kids that brave Americans had to fight wild beasts and wild men and the British to make sure that they could sleep soundly in their beds at night, the boys might learn something.

( . . . mean DOGS? mean DOGS? What else ya gonna hunt a MEAN BEAR with? Of course, at the rate bears are coming back to New Jersey and killing small children, they may see some in Greenwich soon, and this silly woman will have something to REALLY worry about . . )

41 posted on 06/05/2006 6:57:33 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Republicanprofessor
See we agree on the origins of this piece . . .

Having something like this in the school would at least keep things livened up . . .

Your average historical mural is awfully static --

- N.C. Wyeth, "Apotheosis of Franklin". I like Wyeth, but this one is DULL.

42 posted on 06/05/2006 7:00:53 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Old Student; proudofthesouth

It's already being done. The batting is "outcome based education" and the Valium is being subbed under the name "Ritalin".


43 posted on 06/05/2006 7:08:15 AM PDT by shibumi (".....panta en pasin....." - Origen)
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To: Pharmboy

I detect a strong Thomas Hart Benton influence in the artist's style.


44 posted on 06/05/2006 7:36:28 AM PDT by TradicalRC ("...this present Constitution, which will be valid henceforth, now, and forever..."-Pope St. Pius V)
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To: Pharmboy; CatoRenasci

First saw this mural in a Forbes American Heritage article about a decade ago. Sorry to see that the Greenwich Public School system is run (much like 99% of suburban school districts everywhere these days) by a bunch of Katie Couric-types.


45 posted on 06/05/2006 8:01:27 AM PDT by Clemenza (The CFR ate my bilderburgers! Time to call for a trilateral commission to investigate!)
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To: Pharmboy
More from another local paper (hilariously PC):

"It was a battle scene, but if anything it was an inspirational battle scene," said Marisa Nigiro, a member of the third of four generations of her family to attend the school. "Unfortunately today, we psychoanalyze everything."

But PTA President Laura DiBella, who also attended the school, said former students do not remember the painting as disturbing because it was dirty and hung too high to be seen clearly.

"I thought it was phenomenal growing up, but it was a different time," she said. "There was no Columbine or anything like that, and the schools have really done a lot of work on anti-violence. We are now promoting tolerance, accepting differences and all of that, and it doesn't belong in an elementary school."

She said the painting frightened her sons, ages 3 and 4, when they saw it at the library. She also said a depiction of Native Americans with tomahawks may not be appropriate.

BWHAHAHA! ::SPIT:: BWHAHAHA! ::SPIT:: BWHAHAHA! ::SPIT::
46 posted on 06/05/2006 12:13:31 PM PDT by LurkedLongEnough
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To: LurkedLongEnough
She said the painting frightened her sons, ages 3 and 4, when they saw it at the library. She also said a depiction of Native Americans with tomahawks may not be appropriate.

Casinos then?

47 posted on 06/05/2006 12:36:43 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must)
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To: TradicalRC
Indeed.


48 posted on 06/05/2006 12:39:27 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must)
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To: LibSnubber

"Too violent for young children? Guess these school officials haven't noticed what's on television nowadays"
no to mention video games
these people are in a bubble and have no clue


49 posted on 06/05/2006 12:39:48 PM PDT by DM1
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To: Pharmboy

I looked at the mural for a bit and just don't see what is so violent about it. I mean it might be a bit "dark" but even that is a stretch. Leave the gaudy looking painting alone and TEACH.


50 posted on 06/05/2006 12:50:09 PM PDT by napscoordinator
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