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Roots Of Human Family Tree Are Shallow
ABC News ^ | 7-1-2006 | Matt Clenson

Posted on 07/01/2006 4:12:22 PM PDT by blam

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To: FreeKeys

The 2001 'official census' was conducted by helicopter from the air since no one can land on their island. The 39 figure was how many individuals were specifically identified by the aerial census, whereas the 250 estimate is arrived at from the size of their settlement (number & type of structures, etc).


21 posted on 07/01/2006 4:43:34 PM PDT by AntiGuv ("..I do things for political expediency.." - Sen. John McCain on FOX News)
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To: churchillbuff
"One common ancestor? Hmmm. Sounds familiar."
Well, a billion years ago - yes. All of us share the same most basic biochemistry. I had to go to the original article. Their model uses a simplifying assumptions on rate of migration [or mixing] that are clearly fellatious. It is known that the mankind until very recently [and even now in places] existed as an aggregate of pretty autonomous and highly isolated groups. Their model could plausibly apply to each of such isolated groups. One could consider approximate dates of group separations, and later "reunification" with the rates of genetic mixing after such event. For example, say that a small band of hunter-gatherers of several families has been just discovered. They separated probably >10000 yrs ago. After the "family reunion" it would take several generations of purposeful crossbreeding to include all of them in the postulated kinship network. And such purposeful crossbreeding is not especially likely, for "the similar attracts the similar". Thus the rates of mixing in a good model need to be moderate.
22 posted on 07/01/2006 4:43:45 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: Ostlandr
Apparently we went from a thriving species to a small band of survivors.

I'm not sure it would have to work that way - so long as this individual's progeny travelled far and wide, the propagation of their ancestor's gene wouldn't require anything other than human nature.

If you got some of your offspring into the Mongol Hordes, you'd have a good shot at being related to most of Eurasia at some point in the future.

23 posted on 07/01/2006 4:43:48 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: JimSEA

But my point is that some of these groups appear to be totally and completely insulated from outside genetic input since well before the Christian era or even the era of Tutankhamen.


24 posted on 07/01/2006 4:44:54 PM PDT by AntiGuv ("..I do things for political expediency.." - Sen. John McCain on FOX News)
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To: Ostlandr

This poorly written article has left it readers, almost to a "man", completely misled about what is being said.

He is NOT saying that all humans descended from this single individual, like Lucy or the seven original "mothers", or even Adam and Eve; only that all humans alive today, descended from thousands or even millions of individuals, all share this hypothetical ancestor, that his genes have blended out into all humanity.

Or, even if you go back a generation or two more than that we'll find we share even more ancestors.

It's kind of like saying that statisticallly, every glass of water has a litttle of Genghis Khan's urine in it. But then, if that's true, then there is also a bit of Shakespreare's too, in most every glass, or even Winston Churchill's in one glass a year, maybe. It's all just probabilities.

Maybe true, but what's the point?


25 posted on 07/01/2006 4:49:25 PM PDT by John Valentine
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To: GSlob

Good point. Xenophobia (for better or worse) is part of human nature. Given the fierce competition for territory and resources that must have gone on, it appears that until recently only the smartest and most vicious of our ancestors survived to pass on their genes.
I know I will get flamed severely and called racist, Nazi, etc. for saying this- but by eliminating such competition and providing massively expensive medical care in order that folks with genetic problems can survive long enough to reproduce, what effect are we having on the gene pool?


26 posted on 07/01/2006 4:49:38 PM PDT by Ostlandr ( CONUS SITREP is foxtrot uniform bravo alfa romeo)
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To: Ostlandr

That would have been the explosion of Toba that nearly wiped us out.


27 posted on 07/01/2006 4:52:55 PM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: John Valentine

The trouble is that Genghis Khan of your example might have lived on Mars. Martian water [assuming there is such] is mixing, and so is water on Earth, but to get them both mixing would require arrival of water-bearing meteorite and enough time for its water load to diffuse.


28 posted on 07/01/2006 4:55:32 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: AntiGuv

But then the sensational title for the piece would be impossible. [Will this thread now degenerate into a evo-creo spatfest?]


29 posted on 07/01/2006 5:00:19 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: xcamel

'250KYA tools' please explain.


30 posted on 07/01/2006 5:01:08 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: xcamel
Kind of flies in the face of the 250KYA tools found near london a couple weeks ago...

The last common ancestor (whoever he or she was) was just the last of a long line of people from whom we are all descended. You are assuming for some reason that the last would also be the first. The first might have been a very simple cell, or it might have been a very scummy body of water we call "RNA-world."

31 posted on 07/01/2006 5:01:10 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Faster than a speeding building; able to leap tall bullets at a single bound!)
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To: xcamel

PS. I did not mean to come across quite so brusk in my last reply to you, but I was in a rush and it sounds a lot more abrupt than I intended now that I read it again.


32 posted on 07/01/2006 5:01:53 PM PDT by AntiGuv ("..I do things for political expediency.." - Sen. John McCain on FOX News)
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To: MHGinTN

see: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1652623/posts


33 posted on 07/01/2006 5:03:42 PM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: Old Professer
Darwin commented that all species came from a single mated pair of its kind where pairing was a requisite to reproduction.

I've read Origin of Species and Descent of Man and was not struck by such a passage. Well, one can nod a bit reading the old guy here and there. I believe he must have been aware of asexuals even in his day, though. He surely must have postulated as we do now that simple asexuals came first.

34 posted on 07/01/2006 5:04:25 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Faster than a speeding building; able to leap tall bullets at a single bound!)
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To: AntiGuv

I know what you meant, and I pointed out the Toba explosion killed off roughly 96% of our paleo-ancestry, leaving only about 10,000 individuals world wide, from 10,000,000 or more.


35 posted on 07/01/2006 5:06:19 PM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: xcamel
Kind of flies in the face of the 250KYA tools found near london a couple weeks ago...

No, it doesn't. The "last (i.e. most recent) common ancestor" is merely the most recent, not the only or the first. They, too, had ancestors, and so on back a long, long way.

36 posted on 07/01/2006 5:06:47 PM PDT by Ichneumon (Ignorance is curable, but the afflicted has to want to be cured.)
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To: Ostlandr
Several good candidates- and they're all female, since it's the mitochondrial DNA we're talking about IIRC.

No, it isn't -- try reading the article. This has nothing to do with mtDNA.

-Eve (or the various "first humans" talked about in the legends of most religions and tribes) -Mrs. Noah -The survivors of the last supervolcano eruption 70,000 years ago

Again, read the article. This has nothing to do with "first ancestors" or "only ancestors". Whowever the "last common ancestor" was, they had a lot of company, and many of their other contemporaries are our ancestors as well.

37 posted on 07/01/2006 5:08:36 PM PDT by Ichneumon (Ignorance is curable, but the afflicted has to want to be cured.)
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To: Ichneumon
Please read #35 - I'm not as stupid as I look.

(however the story itself was barnyard-dog stupid)

38 posted on 07/01/2006 5:09:25 PM PDT by xcamel (Press to Test, Release to Detonate)
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To: Armigerous
...one common ancestor?....so did this remarkable being divide spontaneously like an amoeba or what?

One *common* ancestor, and many *other* ancestors who were *not* common ancestors.

The common ancestor had plenty of company (including a spouse), and many other people living at the same time also have modern descendants.

39 posted on 07/01/2006 5:10:11 PM PDT by Ichneumon (Ignorance is curable, but the afflicted has to want to be cured.)
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To: GSlob
Their model uses a simplifying assumptions on rate of migration [or mixing] that are clearly fellatious.

Fellatious? Well, look on the bright side. Maybe they're all cunning linguists.

40 posted on 07/01/2006 5:10:25 PM PDT by JCEccles
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