Posted on 07/07/2006 10:05:17 PM PDT by freedom44
> We're apparently failing, in our primary and secondary schools, to teach even the basics of geology.
Oh, come now. You're simply not taking a sufficiently *expansive* view of geology and archeology. From the "BASE Institute" website:
http://www.baseinstitute.org/methodology.html
http://www.baseinstitute.org/answers.html
# We recognize the weakness of a “Premise + Proof” methodology.
# We recognize the strength of a “Possibilities + Problems” methodology.
# We recognize that the Bible is fully inspired (superintended by God) in its autographs (original writings), without error in all its details and in every subject to which it addresses itself.
# We believe the Bible to be the ultimate, best, and final word on all issues of biblical geography and history.
# We believe the Bible’s testimony to itself is the final judge of archaeology and archaeological conclusions – not vice-versa.
If that's not hard-core skepticism and a dogged determination to discover the facts no matter what, then I don't know what is.
> This is a Conservative web site
Yes, indeed. And "Conservative" means "prove it."
Does "Conservative" mean "Prove it"?
Prove it!
One mistake that many that don't believe the Ark story make is assuming that the earth of Noah's time was exactly the same as it is now. The Biblical account does describe waters erupting from underground. Should such an event occur, it would cause the collapse of large portions of the land, creating the oceans, and great shifts in the land masses, which would create mountains that did not exist before the flood, as well as create new continents. Some other things to remember from Genesis; it mentions waters surrounding the earth. A shroud of water vapor would protect the Earth and everything on it from the harmful effects of the sun, enabling things to live for hundreds of years, which would explain how people lived for 900 years, and large dinosaurs(since reptiles never stop growing, a 900 year old dino would be huge). Also, Genesis does say that Noah took along two of every creature, but it doesn't say how big they were. One could easily bring along two baby animals of every kind and still have room for plenty of food on something the size of the Ark. Those animals wouldn't have to disperse immediately upon landfall. They would gradually spread out as the Earth began to recover. These animals would move into areas that would subsequently become separate from other land masses due to the continuing changes in the Earth's surface. These animals would adapt and change over time, creating new species. Some animals would not survive in the long run due to the changes from a perfect environment to one with harsh conditions, ice ages, earthquakes, and the like, which would explain what happened to the dinosaurs.
"Every culture has a story of a family surviving a global flood...(&)... October 31st is a day of death celebrated by cultures all over the world." (vs) "..news to me, as I assume it is to most people...What is your basis for these 2 claims?"
It's been a long (!) time since I read much on these things but the original post is not necessarily amiss.
Just about every culture I've read about DOES have a catastrophe tale/story/myth (whatever) that involves displacement, rigorous survival, and divine intervention: certainly the survivors are considered righteous unless proved otherwise by that divinity. Whether "the people" (ethnocentric yes / racist no) are forced up from their peaceful underworld, driven south by fire or ice, or put in a boat for a month, the fundamental story is pretty much the same. The idea of a wise and righteous man having saved livestock and seed/plants for the generations that follow a regional catastrophe also fits.
I don't count on October 31 being universal in itself but the onset of winter, end of the crop cycle, potential for starvation or at least extreme cold, is still felt everywhere there are seasons: it was a time of quite literal fear to early humans. (Los Angeles and Aspen being exceptions for very many reasons - only one of them being that early humans probably avoided both.)
How many cubic miles of water would it take to raise the sea level even one mile? (Which would still leave vast areas above water.) Two miles (Ditto.) Three miles?
After you have figured that out, see if you can explain where all that water came from, and where it went. The numbers will be bigger that you expect.
These animals would adapt and change over time, creating new species.
Ahh, you are an evolutionist after all. Never mind.
Judging from the replies on this thread, we're failing to teach them much of anything.
> Does "Conservative" mean "Prove it"?
Yes.
> Prove it!
How many Conservatives do you know who will automatically and uncritically accept what the media tells them?
That is a lot to squeeze into 4300 years. Just one example, it is positing a rate of evolution a couple of hundred times faster than that which evolutionists posit.
And folks criticize the theory of evolution for having gaps!
Possibly posting it in the religion forum rather than the news forum would have prevented critical discussion?
There's fella by the name of Noah
Built an ark
Everybody knows he built an ark.
You see
What Noah do? Well he built an ark
But very few people know about
The conversation that went on between the Lord and Noah
You see Noah was in his rec. room
Sewing away, he was making a few things for the home there.
He was a good carpenter
Whoompa, whoompa, whoompa, whoompa
Noah!
Somebody call?
Whoompa, whoompa, whoompa
Noah!
Who is that?
It's the Lord, Noah
Right!
Where are ja?
What you want? I've been good.
I want you to build an Ark
Right!
Whats an Ark?
Get some wood build it
300 cubits by 80 cubits by 40 cubits
Right!
Whats a cubit?
Lets see a cubit...I used to know what a cubit was
Well don't worry about that Noah
When you get that done
Go out into the world and
Collect all of the animals in the world by twos
Male and female, and put them into the ark
Right!
Who is this really?
What's going on?
How come you want me to do all these weird things?
I'm going to destory the world
Right!
Am I on Candid Camera?
How you gonna do it?
I'm gonna make it rain for a thousand days and drown 'em right out
Right!
Listen to this, you'll save water
Let it rain for 40 days and 40 nights
And wait for the sewers back up
Right!
I just wondering,
What would be the effect of an Ark on the average neighbour?
Now, here's a guy going to work, 7 o'clock in the morning
Noahs next door neighbour and he sees the Ark.
Hey!
You up there!
What you want?
What is this?
It's an Ark
Aha
You wanna get it outta my driveway?
I gotta get to work
Listen, what this thing for anyway?
I can't tell you
Hahahahaha!
Well, I mean can't you give me a little hint?
You wanna a hint?
Yes, please
How long can you tread water?
Hahahah!
'Course Noah had a heck of a job really
He had to go out and collect
All the animals in the world, by two's
Two mosquitoes, male or female
And, uh, he had to keep telling the rabbits
Only two, only two, only two.
So we find Noah pulling up the last two animals
Two hippos and he's really in a hurry to get em up
Because hes afraid that the Lords gonna call him
And ask him to do something else
And his nevers are shot
This is one heck of a job for a man 600 years old
So we find him pulling up the two last hippos
And of course the Lord does call him there
Com'on fat hippos hurry up
Com'on will you please?
Noah!
What? What you want?
Gotta take one of those hippos out
And bring in another one
What for?
'Cause you got two males down there
And you need to bring in a female
I'm not bringin' nothin' in
You change one of em'
Com'on you know I don't work like that.
Well I'm sick and tired of this I've had enough of this stuff
I've been working all day
Working on it for days and days
I'm sick and tired of this
Noah!
Yeah?
How long can you tread water?
Yeah, well I got news for you
I'm sick and tired of this whole mess
The whole neigbourhood's out there laughing at me
They're all having a grand time
At good old old Noah there
I went out there at my best friend Larry
I've been talking to the Lord, Larry
Larry said
Oh, really
Yeah yeah
Lord, Larry, Larry, Lord
You walked off laughing
And I hear 'em all laughing at me
You know I'm the only guy in this neighbourhood with an Ark?
People around here laughing
Picket signs walking up and down
I'm sick and tired of this stuff here
People walking around here
How you doing Tarzan?
How's everything up there?.
Sick and tired of this mess here
You supposed to know all and see all
You let me go out there
And bring in a pregnant elephant
You give me no manual for delivery or nuthin'
Never told me the thing was pregnant
There's good old Naoh waitin' underneath the elephant there
Brrrrroooooooooom
Right on top
Sick and tired of this mess here
Had enough all this stuff
For you runnin' around
You supposed to know all and see all
Like I said before
You let me go out there and do all this stuff here
You never even looked in the bottom of that Ark
Have you looked down there?
No?
Who's gonna clean up that mess down there?
That's me
I tell you I've had enough of this stuff
I tell you what I'm gonna do
I'm letting all these animals out
And I'm gonna burn down this Ark
And I'm going to Florida somewhere
'Cause you haven't done nothin'
I'm sick and tired of all this mess
You foolin' around
And you haven't done nothing!
And you got it rainin'
It's not a shower is it?
Ok Lord me and you right
'Cause I knew it all the time
Try reading www.creationscience.com if you truly want scientific explanations for how a worldwide flood was possible. Dr. Walt Brown PhD has some simply amazing conjectures on how all of this came to be. Incidentally, although a christian he started out believing in a billions of years evolutionary model before most of the pieces of the puzzle began to fall into place.
Center for Scientific Creation - In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/IntheBeginningTOC.html
Also I have a few other links if you'll click on my profile - but sadly you'll probably will want to disregard all of this evidence too...
Ah yes, another person who has to judge and pretend to be the homeowner association.
Being conservative doesn't automatically mean you believe in fables that are easily disproved by the tiniest bit of logic.
You have an interesting tagline. Any chance you are a commercial fisherman?
Well that shows that Creationists can change their minds. (And amazingly quickly)
"This is a Conservative web site "Liberalartian"."
It is a conservative web site. Conservatism has to do with political viewpoints, not religion, though. Maybe that's where you're confused.
Some Christians believe the Genesis story is an accurate rendering of what actually occurred. More Christians, however, believe that it is allegorical.
It is possible to be a conservative, yet not a Young Earth Creationist. In fact, most here on Free Republic fit that description.
Please don't confuse conservatism with fundamentalist Christianity. The two are not the same thing.
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