Reason to Believe : A leading geneticist argues that science can lead to faith

Washington Post ^ | 07/09/2006 | Scott Russell Sanders

[MHGinTN]

Thanks, sorry it appeared that I doubted your intentions, I was merely referring to the marginalizing practice on both sides of the crevo 'discussions'. Now that a fellow Christian has tried it with me (ES), I will step aside from a discussion where my input is poopooed. [MHG climbs back up onto the porch, to get out of the way while the big dogs run.]

[VadeRetro]

Didn't mean to chase you off. Some people think I may have ossified and grumpified a bit since coming onto these threads in 1999. OK, everybody thinks that. Screw 'em!

[puroresu]

Maybe you're grumpy sometimes, Vade, but a man who likes the Three Stooges has a nice side, too! :-)

[VadeRetro]

Let peace reign for a night, then. (I'm watching the All-Star Game.)

;)

[puroresu]

Agreed! Have a great evening!

[editor-surveyor]

Sediment can only make sedimentary or conglomerate rock. Stop treating people that are beyond your level like fools. We've all got your number here; always pulling some kind of scam.

[Coyoteman]

Sediment can only make sedimentary or conglomerate rock. Stop treating people that are beyond your level like fools. We've all got your number here; always pulling some kind of scam.

Sorry, I have found that your "science" is simply not to be trusted. It seems to be a function of your religious belief, not your scientific investigations.

I once asked for documentation of your claims about a "global" flood, which you said was supported by some formations in the lower Central Valley of California or somewhere close. You never provided any documentation. (I have worked in that area, and I didn't find evidence of a large-scale, global-type, flood.)

All you seem to provide are short, often sarcastic, comments which seem to go against mainstream science, but which you don't -- or can't -- support. Until you can support your comments, how can I evaluate or trust any of them?

(Enjoy the sunrise--this one is from South Africa.)

[editor-surveyor]

What does a piddling little technician/gopher like you know about science?

[Coyoteman]

What does a piddling little technician/gopher like you know about science?

That's Dr. Gopher to you, son.

(For the lurkers: note that there was no response to the facts under discussion, just a personal attack.)

[LiteKeeper]

Amen

[tickmeister]

As I read the article, the point is that the incredible complexity of the DNA molecule as well as the glories of nature suggest the "mind of god" at work. They do not. They are simple very complex and majestic. Believers will explain this complexity and majesty by postulating a God who is more complex and majestic than what they see before them, thus even harder to understand and explain.

I would be pleased to be shown otherwise, but I contend that there does not exist a single shred of evidence to support the existance of any supernatural God. The human mind obviously needs God, and the mind will hallucinate anything that it needs badly enough.

I am not hostile to God, nor to believers. I simply have not been convinced of his existance or of their rationality.

[editor-surveyor]

For the lurkers, note that there were no facts under discussion, just coyote's refusal to accept the obvious condition of the terrain of California's central valley that illustrates the stages under which the flood waters trapped in the valley were released.

This is typical of the kind of obstinate, opinionated tantrum that is constantly push off here as science by the lost, serpent-seed, God haters that are attempting to control the debate.

[blowfish]

This is typical of the kind of obstinate, opinionated tantrum that is constantly push off here as science by the lost, serpent-seed, God haters that are attempting to control the debate.

You really need to switch to Decaf, EdSurv.

[blowfish]

For the lurkers, note that there were no facts under discussion, just coyote's refusal to accept the obvious condition of the terrain of California's central valley that illustrates the stages under which the flood waters trapped in the valley were released.

Have you ever actually *been* to the Central Valley? Have you ever measured the bedding planes in the formations lining the western edge of the valley? Do you *seriously* believe they are flood deposits??

[Alamo-Girl]

How timely! That is a marvelous excerpt. Thank you oh so very much!

[Coyoteman]

For the lurkers, note that there were no facts under discussion, just coyote's refusal to accept the obvious condition of the terrain of California's central valley that illustrates the stages under which the flood waters trapped in the valley were released.

This is typical of the kind of obstinate, opinionated tantrum that is constantly push off here as science by the lost, serpent-seed, God haters that are attempting to control the debate.

The date typically given for the global flood is ca. 2350 BC.

There are some very nice archaeological sites in the southern San Joaquin Valley (the Central Valley) that go back some 10,000+ years.

There is mtDNA evidence older than 2350 BC in the Central Valley which correlates with modern living descendants. No break for a flood and replacement by Noah's mtDNA.

You cite "the obvious condition of the terrain of California's central valley that illustrates the stages under which the flood waters trapped in the valley were released" but you don't provide any evidence!

Put up! I have evidence, where's yours?

[blowfish]

Sediment can only make sedimentary or conglomerate rock.

I take it you're not a believer in that god-hating, soul-destroying, anti-American "Theory of Metamorphic Rocks"? I'm surprised the Discovery Institute isn't filing lawsuits against petrography classes.

[Cronos]

I agree -- all science does is help us understand the depth and breadth of God's power and wisdom and knowledge. Science should not consist of conjecture, purely imperial decisions.

[2nsdammit]

placemarker

[trisham]

His epiphany came when he went hiking through the Cascade Mountains in Washington state. He said: “It was a beautiful afternoon and suddenly the remarkable beauty of creation around me was so overwhelming, I felt, ‘I cannot resist this another moment’.”

*******************

This is reminiscent of a number of accounts of those who over the ages have ceased "resisting" God. Their descriptions and this of the moment that they finally accepted God into their lives are very moving. The miracle of faith is indeed a beautiful thing.

Good article. I just emailed the link to my husband.