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Mark Steyn: Before the white man came? War
Macleans ^ | 07/18/06 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 07/18/2006 7:45:03 AM PDT by Pokey78

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To: vpintheak
...and every single paper I had to write about every episode I broke down the BS that the producers of this garbage were trying to sell. I did make some points with the young mush heads in the class with me.

How did your professor take that?

CA....

81 posted on 07/18/2006 9:58:37 AM PDT by Chances Are (Whew! It seems I've once again found that silly grin!)
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To: Pokey78
His killers kept his genitals for themselves, under the belief that if you eat a man's penis you acquire his powers.

Then why isn't SanFran the center of the universe?

One swallow doesn't make a summer, of course [...]

Oh, well maybe that's why.

82 posted on 07/18/2006 10:02:23 AM PDT by Erasmus (<This page left intentionally vague>)
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To: IronJack

They 'killed' for protein and put on a nice dinner show.


83 posted on 07/18/2006 10:03:35 AM PDT by Blue State Insurgent (NY Times + CIA Leakers = Culture of Treason)
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To: Restorer

Interesting post (#42). I accept your criticism of the word "need." It has been many years since I read Marvin Harris, but I think that he (or someone else) indicated that the Aztec agriculture was inadequate. I "need" to revisit the research..... Relavent in a way now since the professors of Aztlan want to revisit [sic] their paradise on California etc.


84 posted on 07/18/2006 10:04:09 AM PDT by Poincare
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To: Pokey78
Nonetheless, anthropologists concluded that he was a shepherd who had fallen asleep and frozen peacefully to death in a snowstorm. Then the X-ray results came back and showed he had an arrowhead in him.

He'd probably been out hunting with his Vice-Chieftan.

85 posted on 07/18/2006 10:05:44 AM PDT by Erasmus (<This page left intentionally vague>)
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To: trisham

This is just another great article popping the PC bubble of Rousseau's primitive lovelies. The Left really are the nancy-boy pacifists who would get us all killed by their delusional thinking. Thank God for Bush, Cheney, Rummie and boy would we need some more Pace's and a few Pattons thrown in.


86 posted on 07/18/2006 10:08:01 AM PDT by phillyfanatic
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To: phillyfanatic
Thank God for Bush, Cheney, Rummie and boy would we need some more Pace's and a few Pattons thrown in.

************

I couldn't agree more.

87 posted on 07/18/2006 10:09:49 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Poincare
You can't feed millions of Meso-Americans on Chihuahuas alone.
88 posted on 07/18/2006 10:12:01 AM PDT by Blue State Insurgent (NY Times + CIA Leakers = Culture of Treason)
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To: Pokey78
Bump!

Steyn continues to belt these out of the park...

89 posted on 07/18/2006 10:15:30 AM PDT by Paul Ross (We cannot be for lawful ordinances and for an alien conspiracy at one and the same moment.-Cicero)
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To: Pokey78

IMO, science, wonderful as it is, often contains far more speculation that we'd like to admit.


90 posted on 07/18/2006 10:15:41 AM PDT by Sam Cree (Delicacy, precision, force)
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To: xzins
the massacre of the Moravian {Christian} Indians.

Given the Moravian influence on Wesley, I'm not surprised you knew of this. The Moravians were an interesting bunch. I guess you have to consider them proto-Protestants if you can pronounce such a word.
91 posted on 07/18/2006 10:17:35 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: IronJack
Take the Aztec/Mayan/Incan civilizations for example. They were some of the most bloodthirsty known in history. They killed for the sheer activity of it ... something to do besides make weird calendars and build pyramids. In fact, the pyramids were sacrificial altars where the blood of their victims ran in rivulets down the stone sides!

Great point. I wonder if Rove shared that tidbit with La Raza when he met with them?

I can't believe La Raza and like minded people want to go back to that? And Che? Puh-lease. They can go to Cuba or Venezuela and become workers for the state. It would be quite an eye opener. It's a shabby excuse to try to impose some kind of socialist revolucion on us. But, shhh, we aren't supposed to know that.

92 posted on 07/18/2006 10:20:32 AM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: Poincare

The Clovis overkill hypothesis is that human hunters arrived in America about 12,000 years ago and promptly killed off all the large mammals.

Two major problems:
1. Evidence is growing all the time that humans have been in the Americas for much longer, as far back as 20,000 or 25,000 BP.
2. A great many other animals went extinct at the same time, including ones unlikely to be hunted by people, implying that there were other causes involved.

I have a very open mind on the subject. Something happened then, and humans moving in may have been a part of it, but they are probably not the whole story.

Agree that the idea of "native Americans" living in harmony with nature is hooey.


93 posted on 07/18/2006 10:20:49 AM PDT by Restorer
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To: kabar

If Hobbes and Steyn were contemporaries, Hobbes might have quoted Steyn.


94 posted on 07/18/2006 10:23:36 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: George W. Bush

I'm sure there are some hard people all around us, but the Frontiersmen and Indians of that era were the definition of hard.


95 posted on 07/18/2006 10:23:46 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Supporting the troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: Poincare; IronJack
They killed for the sheer activity of it ...

The Aztecs ate the "sacrifice" victims because they needed protein. Antropologist Marvin Harris writes of this. Aztlan.

And for the 'mystical' properties - the different parts gave them strengths. It wasn't just the famine issues that came later. And the sacrificing in such massive numbers, I've read 20,000 at some 'festivals' (checking for source, also was taught this in school), was surely more than those present could feast upon and dwindled the local 'supply' forcing them to travel further to conquer more people to fuel the insatiable sacrificial fires.

Columbus decided to keep what he found secret, writing a secret letter to the Pope. The Pope endeavored his church to save the savages' souls.

Which they did. They weren't perfect either, but the massive, 'sacrificial' bloodfests were brought to a halt. I was taught this in Catholic grade & high school, as well. Ironically, it is absent, or told in very different ways, from my son's textbooks, same school system.

96 posted on 07/18/2006 10:30:45 AM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: Pokey78
You know, I was waiting for Steyn, and couldn't understand why he hadn't written on what was going on in Lebenon.

Then I came to this passage:
We want to believe that the yard, the cul-de-sac, the morning commute, the mall are merely the bland veneer of our lives, and that underneath we are still that noble primitive living in harmony with the great spirits of the forest and the mountain.
The reality is that "civilization" -- Greco-Roman-Judeo-Christian -- worked very hard to stamp out the primitive within us, and for good reason.

Suddenly, I realized Steyn had said everything he needed to about Lebenon... Though I wish he had included Hindu and Buddha as well, just to round it out...

97 posted on 07/18/2006 10:33:38 AM PDT by Experiment 6-2-6 (Admn Mods: tiny, malicious things that glare and gibber from dark corners.They have pins and dolls..)
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To: Restorer

Actually, you need beans, maize and squash - and if you had a bad harvest on any of 'em, or otherwise couldn't get all three, you were in bad shape.
Human meat was a luxury item, reserved for the upper class, and commoners could advance in rank by capturing it for 'em....
Thank goodness for Cortez.


98 posted on 07/18/2006 10:33:44 AM PDT by Little Ray (If you want to be a martyr, we want to martyr you.)
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To: garyhope
Did you notice Al-Hilallah on the cover?


99 posted on 07/18/2006 10:36:07 AM PDT by Stallone (Mainstream Media is dead. I helped kill it.)
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To: Restorer
Agree that the idea of "native Americans" living in harmony with nature is hooey.

Living in harmony? I don't know if I'd call it that, either. Many nations certainly were very knowledgeable about their surroundings and frugal with their supplies. But that probably had as much or more to do with sustaining life (food, clothing, clean water, medicines) and safety (travel light, avoid war or be able to spring an attack), as it did with living in 'harmony' with nature.

100 posted on 07/18/2006 10:38:02 AM PDT by fortunecookie
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