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Bold and underlinling added by me. Everybody be nice.
1 posted on 07/20/2006 6:58:12 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
Evolution Ping

The List-O-Links
A conservative, pro-evolution science list, now with over 380 names.
See the list's explanation, then FReepmail to be added or dropped.
To assist beginners: But it's "just a theory", Evo-Troll's Toolkit,
and How to argue against a scientific theory.

2 posted on 07/20/2006 6:59:38 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (The Enlightenment gave us individual rights, free enterprise, and the theory of evolution.)
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To: PatrickHenry
whatever dude
3 posted on 07/20/2006 6:59:40 AM PDT by keithtoo (The GOP is fortunate that the Dim's are even more spineless and disorganized.)
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To: PatrickHenry

"We have nothing to fear but fear itself.....and snakes."


4 posted on 07/20/2006 6:59:41 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: PatrickHenry

Typical evolutionary mumbo-jumbo. They try to use evolution to explain how primates use their eyes and limbs, to conceal the fact that evolution can't explain how they got eyes and limbs in the first place.


5 posted on 07/20/2006 7:01:21 AM PDT by happyathome
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To: PatrickHenry
Somewhere, I've read that chimps show an inherent, unlearned fear of snakes. Fits in, if so.
7 posted on 07/20/2006 7:05:39 AM PDT by VadeRetro (Faster than a speeding building; able to leap tall bullets at a single bound!)
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To: PatrickHenry
"There's an evolutionary arms race between the predators and prey. Primates get better at spotting and avoiding snakes, so the snakes get better at concealment, or more venomous, and the primates respond," Isbell said.

The perfect analogy of Hezbollah, the snake who hides among the Lebanese people to do their savage work……………

8 posted on 07/20/2006 7:06:12 AM PDT by yoe
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To: PatrickHenry

This doesn't look good for the Irish.


11 posted on 07/20/2006 7:08:04 AM PDT by Hoplite
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To: PatrickHenry
For example, the lemurs of Madagascar do not have any venomous snakes in their environment, and in evolutionary terms "have stayed where they are,"

Or, following the theme of this brilliant research, maybe the lemurs evolved such great eyes that the snakes just gave up on the arms race and decided to leave Madagascar altogether. Have you seen the size of those lemur-eyes? Those are "star-wars" eyes, the SDI's of evolution. They need to pay this lady a lot of public loot for this amazing discovery.

12 posted on 07/20/2006 7:11:00 AM PDT by Migraine (...diversity is great (until it happens to you)...)
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To: PatrickHenry
"I Hate Snakes!"


16 posted on 07/20/2006 7:13:29 AM PDT by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein(the moon is a harsh mistress))
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To: PatrickHenry

Pfft. I'll believe it when a Pikachu evolves wings.


20 posted on 07/20/2006 7:22:11 AM PDT by hail to the chief (Use your conservatism liberally)
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To: PatrickHenry

It's all jibber-jabber. I don't want to hear no more of this jibber-jabber, do you understand? [/TIC]


21 posted on 07/20/2006 7:23:47 AM PDT by MineralMan (non-evangelical atheist)
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To: PatrickHenry

I wonder if they tried to explain exactly how many primates were eaten by venemous snakes, which tend to be too small to eat even small primates. I thought close up vision was more useful to keep from hitting your head on obstacles, or stubbing your toes on rocks, or determining if you had food or junk in your hand before eating, or seeing if you had the best looking mate available, etc.


28 posted on 07/20/2006 7:36:41 AM PDT by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: PatrickHenry

"snakes were likely the first serious predators of modern mammals"

BALDERDASH.

Mammals eveolved in the mid Mesozoic era. The "Age if Reptiles" That meant dinosaurs. Not all dinosaurs were giants and my guess is smaller dinosaurs were a far greater threat to evolving mammals than snakes.

Tests done on pirmates which have never been exposed to snakes indicate no inherent fear of snakes - rather curiosity.

Ophidiophobia is an acuired trait and I doubt if one can learn much from a poisonous bite as an individual. And, as a group, the immediate consequences of a snake nite might not be manifest for some time.

I think this woman is stretching for things on this subject.

Aside from Judaeo-Christian society, which is fixated on the Garden of Eden episode, MOST earliers societies didn't fear snakes - they worshipped them as Gods.

So I think this person had better go back to the drawing board.


30 posted on 07/20/2006 7:40:45 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: PatrickHenry

OK, let's be sure that everyone understands how absurd this hypothesis is.

No simian prior to the "appearance" of poisonous snakes could see color. Snakebites had to be so common and invariably fatal that EVERY simian with black and white vision was ultimately wiped out and could not reproduce, while ONLY those that could see color survived and produced surviving offspring. NONE of the colorblind simians were able to survive snakebite, while most of the color-seers successfully avoided snakes.

Never mind that many individuals would never encounter a poisonous snake before reproducing, or lived in any area with few, if any, poisonous snakes. And never mind that some simian individual had to have an accidental gene mutation that -- voila! -- produced whole rods or cones or whatever that could detect colors along with the brain cells capable of interpreting them.

OK, evolutionists, let's hear your howls of protest and derision. Your religion has been questioned! Paging John Derbyshire!


33 posted on 07/20/2006 7:44:14 AM PDT by Elpasser
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To: PatrickHenry
I just love the scientific method these days. It's so precise.

"The ability to spot venomous snakes may have played a major role in the evolution of monkeys, apes and humans"

Yes. And one day monkees may fly right out of my butt.

This is just another idea by a scientist and we will never have enough facts to either dispute it or back it up since these were one-time events in the distant past. Can't these guys find something more productive to do with their time?

Oh, wait. Let me save you guys the trouble. Okay, I don't know anything about the scientific method, I am disparaging these scientists that are doing noble and valuable work, all science proceeds from ideas such as these, blah, blah, blah.

36 posted on 07/20/2006 7:45:50 AM PDT by webstersII
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To: PatrickHenry

She, in my humble opinion, is incorrect. Dinosaurs were chomping on small mammals since they started to differentiate from reptiles.


42 posted on 07/20/2006 7:51:19 AM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine (An old sailor sends)
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To: PatrickHenry
"There's an evolutionary arms race between the predators and prey. Primates get better at spotting and avoiding snakes, so the snakes get better at concealment, or more venomous, and the primates respond," Isbell said.

Well, a couple of our more recent responses are the 12 gauge shotgun and night vision goggles. Let's see the snakes match those.

45 posted on 07/20/2006 7:56:18 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: PatrickHenry

What are your feelings on the current situation in the Middle East?


49 posted on 07/20/2006 8:01:41 AM PDT by Sam's Army (How to make someone shutup and go away in Corporate-speak: "Just send it to me in an email.")
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To: PatrickHenry

This reminds me of an article I read on fear & learning in monkeys a while ago.

Basically, monkeys aren't born with fear of snakes; they only start fearing snakes when they see another monkey fearing snakes.

However, if a monkey sees another monkey fearing, say, flowers... the only thing that that monkey learns is that some monkeys are crazy.

The conclusion of the article was that fear of snakes and other dangers were instinctive & genetic, but it was dormant by default and had to be "triggered" by external stimulus before it could be expressed. This fits in with a lot of genetic-influenced behavior we see (e.g., alcoholism; little kids don't steal from their parents' liquor cabinets--they have to take their first drink before becoming alcoholic).


60 posted on 07/20/2006 8:17:54 AM PDT by Seamoth (Kool-aid is the most addictive and destructive drug of them all.)
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To: PatrickHenry

What nonsense!


63 posted on 07/20/2006 8:23:34 AM PDT by Gritty (I believe it is appropriate to over-represent facts on how dangerous global warming is - Al Gore)
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