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Ground to a Halt (Research shows: Suicide-bombers Communists, not Islamists
New York Times ^ | August 3, 2006 | ROBERT PAPE

Posted on 08/09/2006 12:23:46 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts

...

In writing my book on suicide attackers, I had researchers scour Lebanese sources to collect martyr videos, pictures and testimonials and the biographies of the Hezbollah bombers. Of the 41, we identified the names, birth places and other personal data for 38. Shockingly, only eight were Islamic fundamentalists. Twenty-seven were from leftist political groups like the Lebanese Communist Party and the Arab Socialist Union. Three were Christians, including a female high-school teacher with a college degree. All were born in Lebanon.

...

Robert A. Pape, a professor of political science at the University of Chicago, is the author of “Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism.”

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Cuba; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Israel; Mexico; News/Current Events; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: al; commies; communism; dflp; hamas; hezbollah; hizbullah; homicidebombers; homicidebombing; iran; israel; jihad; kgb; kgblegacy; lebanon; muhammadatta; pa; partyofgod; pflp; plo; redjihad; russia; sovietunion; suicidebombers; suicidebombing; syria; terrorism; terrorists; unholyalliance
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The author misinterprets his own research, but what do you expect from a professor writing for the New York Times. But what a startling find! I think it is high time that we replace "Islamo-Fascist" with "Islamo-Commie".

A friend of mine from Finland emailed me the following comment on the above article:

BBC reported last night (for some reason, not yet to be found on its web site) a recent study by Robert Pape, according to whom the majority of Hizbullah suicide-bombings have been committed by former Communists, and less than 20 % by Islamists. According to these statistics, 41 researched incidents testify, that nationalism rather than religious fervor is the motivation of suicide-bombings.

The study confirms, what has been claimed before about how the Islamists actually adopted suicide-bombing tactics in the 1980s from Colombian guerrillas and drug-lords, who employed suicide-bombers ("sicarios") even before it became fashionable in the Middle East. According to Michael Pohly and Khalid Durán ("Osama bin Laden und der internationale Terrorismus", Ulm 2001, p. 73-75), Lebanese Hizbullah members, who studied in a Californian university in 1990, were very keen to learn from their professor about this tactics and its ideological justifications, because until then Islam (as well as the Catholic church) had rejected suicide as a sin against God. Nevertheless, South Americans (primarily Atheists) and soon an increasing number of Muslims committed suicide for political purposes. The ultimate motivation, however, was sacrifice for the family, which was paid for the act. Thus the first Lebanese suicide-bombers were typically Communist female students, who had neither religious scruples nor better chances to earn money for their family, and who were too westernized to dream about traditional family life. At the same time, the DFLP, a Palestinian communist splitter-group of the PFLP, with its military wing "The Read Eagles", joined Hizbullah in common resistance against Israeli occupation. Soon, the DFLP and other Palestinian left-wing groups were practically merged with the "Party of God".

Attempts to trace modern Islamist suicide-bombings to ancient Muslim or specially Shiite doctrines, fail to understand the real nature and complexity of the issue. Although Iran seemed to be exporting this tactics among its favourite terrorists in the Muslim world, today suicide-bombers can just as well be Sunni Muslims (as in Iraq), or Hindoos (as in Sri Lanka). There is no reason to assume, that Christians would be immune to this phenomena. In most cases, as was noticed already among alcohol-drinking terrorists like Muhammed Atta, deep religiosity is not the thriving factor, but rather a superficial rhetorical excuse. Religious conservatives are less likely to commit suicide-bombings than disillusionized fanatics of the extreme left, and other mentally imbalanced people.

1 posted on 08/09/2006 12:23:48 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

bttt


2 posted on 08/09/2006 12:26:23 AM PDT by nopardons
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To: GodGunsGuts

anything from a credible source? =o)


3 posted on 08/09/2006 12:27:36 AM PDT by GeronL (http://www.mises.org/story/1975 <--no such thing as a fairtax)
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To: All
ON THE NET...

Google - News - Search Term: "HUMAN BOMB" (Read More...)

MEMRI.org - Search Term: "Suicide (Martyrdom) Operations"

YAHOO! News - Photo Gallery: "Suicide Bomber" (NOTE: Click on any of the numerous thumbnail photos to get THE BIG PICTURE.)

GOOGLE - Search Term: "HOMICIDE BOMBERS"

"www.internet-haganah.com"

INTELLIGENCE-SUMMIT.blogspot.com (AKI) - Tehran: "IRAN SUICIDE BOMBERS JOINED HEZBOLLAH IN LEBANON, MILITANT SAYS" (July 21, 2006)

JIHAD WATCH.org: "IRAN'S SUICIDE BOMBERS THREATEN TO STRIKE U.S. INTERESTS" (May 26, 2006)

JIHAD WATCH.org (AKI): Tehran - "'We have brothers who are ready to sacrifice their lives for the triumph of Islam in Great Britain, France, Belgium, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands and also the United States'" (May 27, 2006)

JPOST.com: "THE REGION: PALESTINIAN SUICIDE STRATEGY" by Barry Rubin (Updated July 10, 2006)

JIHAD WATCH.org (JPOST.com): "AKSA BRIGADES ANNOUNCES FEMALE SUICIDE BOMBER UNIT" (July 10, 2006)

JIHAD WATCH.org: "'PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENTS' IN A CULTURE OF DEATH" (July 2, 2006)

PMW.org.il - TV Archives - Video Library: "PA INDOCTRINATION OF CHILDREN TO SEEK HEROIC DEATH FOR ALLAH - SHAHADA"

MEMRI.org - Special Dispatch Series - No.1162: "ARAB INTELLECTUALS PRAISE MARTYRDOM IN DISCUSSION ON SYRIAN TV" (May 12, 2006)

MEMRITV.org - Video Clips: "INCITING CHILDREN"

MEMRITV.org - Video Clip No. 1107 - Transcript: "PALESTINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER MAHMOUD AL-ZAHAR DEFENDS 'MARTYRDOM-SEEKING OPERATIONS'" (April 6, 2006)

MEMRI.org - Special Dispatch Series - No. 1111: Palestinian Legislative Council Member 'Umm Nidal' on Saudi Iqra TV: A Muslim Mother Should Raise Her Children for Jihad Interviewer Iqra TV Director-General Critical of Arab TV Channels That Don't Support Martyrdom Operations" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "The following are excerpts from an interview with Palestinian Legislative Council member "Umm Nidal" Farhat, aired on Saudi Iqra TV, on February 19, 2006. TO VIEW THIS CLIP, VISIT: http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=1066" (March 10, 2006)
CNS NEWS.com: "HAMAS WEBSITE ENCOURAGES KIDS TO BECOME MARTYRS" by Julie Stahl (March 8, 2006)

PMW.org.il - TV Archives - Video Library: "PA INDOCTRINATION OF CHILDREN TO SEEK HEROIC DEATH FOR ALLAH - SHAHADA"

PMW.org.il: "'ASK FOR DEATH!' The Indoctrination of Palestinian Children to Seek Death for Allah - Shahada" by Itamar Marcus, Director, Palestinian Media Watch

PMW.org.il: "A SELF-PORTRAIT OF SUICIDE TERRORISTS" by Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook (March 2, 2006)

JIHAD WATCH.org (YNETNEWS): "THE DIRECTOR OF 'PARADISE NOW' WOULD BE A SUICIDE BOMBER" (March 3, 2006)

JIHAD WATCH.org (JTA): "SUICIDE BOMBING ENDORSED IN KIDS BOOK RECOMMENDED BY CANADIAN LIBRARIES" (March 3, 2006)

JAMESTOWN.org - Terrorism Focus: "THE FOREIGN MAKEUP OF AFGHAN SUICIDE BOMBERS" by Omid Marzban (February 21, 2006) (Read More...)

MEMRI.org - Special Dispatch Series No. 1076: "RARE FOOTAGE OF SAUDI COMEDIAN & AL-MAJD TV EMPLOYEE-TURNED-SUICIDE BOMBER MUHAMMAD SHAZZAF AL-SHEHRI" (January 24, 2006)

"www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=1004"

THE COUNTERTERRORISM BLOG: "FATHER OF SUICIDE BOMBING VICTIM: GOLDEN GLOBE TO 'PARADISE LOST' LEGITIMIZES TERRORISM" (January 23, 2006)

A Discussion on FREEREPUBLIC.com regarding a REUTERS article: "SUICIDE BOMBER FILM WINS HONOUR AT GOLDEN GLOBES" (January 16, 2006)

JIHAD WATCH.org (SUNDAY MIRROR): "AL-QAEDA'S PLOT TO INFECT TROOPS WITH AIDS VIRUS" (January 9, 2006)

stepping back in time...NEW SCIENTIST.com:"SUICIDE BOMBERS MAY SPREAD DISEASE" (July 24, 2002)

EMS RESPONDER.com: "RECOGNIZING IMMINENT DANGER: CHARACTERISTICS OF A SUICIDE BOMBER" (Updated October 31, 2005)

JIHAD WATCH.org (GulfNews): "'THEY PROMISED US PARADISE THROUGH MARTYRDOM'" (December 22, 2005)

FRONTPAGE MAGAZINE.com: "SUICIDE KILLERS" by Jamie Glazov (December 12, 2005)

FRONTPAGE MAGAZINE.com: "CONVERTS TO TERROR" by Daniel Pipes (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Islamist terror organizations particularly prize converts. They know the local culture and blend in.") (December 6, 2005)
MEMRI.org - Special Dispatch Series No. 1032: "REFORMIST SAUDI AUTHOR: RELIGIOUS CASSETTES ADVOCATED JIHAD BY EMPHASIZING MARTYR'S SEXUAL REWARDS" (November 23, 2005)
FrontPageMagazine.com: "WHAT PARADISE?" by Pierre Rehov (November 16, 2005)

INTERNET-HAGANAH.US: "MR. SHAEED HAS A BAD DAY AT THE OFFICE" (November 1, 2005)

A discussion on FreeRepublic.com regarding The Jewish Journal article by Marc Ballon: "WHAT MAKES BOMBERS TICK IN 'PARADISE'?" (October 28, 2005)

JIHAD WATCH.org (AFP): "RESEARCHERS PROBE MOTIVES OF SUICIDE BOMBERS" (October 4, 2005)

MEMRI.org - Special Dispatch Series - No. 983: "COMMANDER OF HAMAS MILITARY WING WOMEN'S UNIT: 'Our Members Yearn for Martyrdom'" (September 9, 2005)
CORRIERE.IT/english: Turin - "TURIN IMAM DEPORTED -- "HE'S DANGEROUS" Accused of praising Bin Laden. Como-based Tunisian activist also expelled." (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "The ten children taking part in the ring-o'-roses protest beneath the market clock in Porta Palazzo were all wearing suicide bomber belts. The year was 1997, and that was the first time Bouriqi Bouchta, whose idea it was, attracted Italy’s attention.") (September 7, 2005)
MEMRITV.org/Transcript - Video Clip No. 838 - 8/31/2005: " 8/31/2005 Clip No. 838: "Sheik of Al-Azhar Muhammad Tantawi Explains on Al-Hurra TV When a Suicide Bomber Becomes a Martyr and When He Is Not" (TRANSCRIPT SNIPPET: "Following are excerpts from an interview with Sheik of Al-Azhar Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi, which aired on Al-Hurra TV on August 31, 2005")
MEMRI TV.org - Clip No. 843 - Transcript: "SAUDI IQRA TV RAISES MONEY FOR PALESTINIAN INTIFADA" (TRANSCRIPT SNIPPET: "Caption: The Saudi committee for support of the Al-Quds Intifada. Account number 98, a joint account in all Saudi banks.") (August 29, 2005)
FrontPageMagazine.com: "SYMPOSIUM: THROUGH THE EYES OF A SUICIDE BOMBER" by Jamie Glazov (August 12, 2005)

COUNTERTERRORISM BLOG: "INTERVIEW WITH PIERRE REHOV, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER, ON PSYCHOLOGY BEHIND SUICIDE BOMBINGS" (July 27, 2005)

MEMRI.org - Special Dispatch Series - No. 909: "BAHRAINI AUTHOR AND JOURNALIST: THE PROPONENTS OF THE SUICIDE IDEOLOGY HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF GLOBAL COMMUNICATIONS" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "In an article that appeared in the Saudi daily Al-Yawm, titled "The Globalization of Islamic Suicide" author and journalist Sawsan Al-Sha'er wrote that the extremist Islamist groups are taking advantage of global communications to recruit suicide bombers, and predicted the spread of the suicide bomber phenomenon to Britain as well.") (May 17, 2005)
JIHAD WATCH.org (DAWN): "MAJORITY OF SUICIDE BOMBERS ARE EDUCATED" (January 13, 2005)

FOX NEWS.com: "TICKET TO HELL" by David Asman (December 9, 2004)

MEMRI.org - MIDDLE EAST MEDIA RESEARCH INSTITUTE Special Report - No.32: "MEMRI TV Project Special Report: Arab and Iranian TV Clips in Support of Suicide Bombing" (September 1, 2004)

JIHAD WATCH.org: "RATIONAL, EDUCATED AND PROSPEROUS: JUST YOUR AVERAGE SUICIDE BOMBER" (May 15, 2004)

SAAG.org - SOUTH ASIA ANALYSIS GROUP: "SUICIDE & SUICIDAL TERRORISM" by B. Raman (March 12, 2004)

JIHAD WATCH.org (HAARETZ): "10 SUICIDE BOMBINGS FOILED OVER PASSOVER HOLIDAY" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "One of two Tanzim activists caught at the end of March told interrogators the group that sent them had planned a series of other attacks, including one with a device to which blood infected with AIDS would be attached.") (April 13, 2004)
FrontPageMagazine.com: "AFFLUENT GENOCIDE" by Robert Spencer (October 14, 2003)

NEW SCIENTIST.com: "SUICIDE BOMBERS MAY SPREAD DISEASE" (July 24, 2002)

WTVT.com - FOX13 Investigative: "JIHAD FOR KIDS" (February 4, 2002)


4 posted on 08/09/2006 12:28:14 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: SJackson; dennisw; Tailgunner Joe; spanalot; Thunder90; strategofr; GSlob; TigerLikesRooster; ...

Spread the word!


5 posted on 08/09/2006 12:29:07 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: Cindy

ARAB 'PEACE' MARCH IN LONDON

"europe your 911 is on its way"
"behead those who insult islam"
"behead those who mock islam"

very diverse group there.

6 posted on 08/09/2006 12:33:01 AM PDT by GeronL (http://www.mises.org/story/1975 <--no such thing as a fairtax)
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To: All
ON THE NET...

JIHAD WATCH.org (SUN HERALD): "JIHAD LEADER'S SUICIDE BOMB WARNING" (August 5, 2006) (Read More...)

HAARETZ.com: Jakarta - "ISLAMIC GROUP: 200 MILITANTS SENT TO BOMB 'ISRAEL'S VITAL INTERESTS'" (ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Western countries such as the United States and Britain, as well as businesses, could be targeted unless they cease supporting Israel, he said. Didu said the group was watching Australia's position on the Middle East conflict. "If John Howard makes a statement in support of Israel, he will be a target," Didu said. More than 3,000 people have signed up for the mission, and 217 people from Indonesia, the Philippines, Malaysia and Singapore have been dispatched abroad so far, he said.") (August 4, 2006) (Read More...)
JIHAD WATCH.org (JPOST.com): "AKSA BRIGADES ANNOUNCES FEMALE SUICIDE BOMBER UNIT" (July 10, 2006) (Read More...)

WorldNetDaily.com: Jerusalem - "HAMAS LOOKING TO FLY PLANES INTO BULDINGS Terror leader details goal to carry out 9-11-style attacks, 'possibly skyscraper'" by Aaron Klein (May 25, 2006) (Read More...)

MEMRI.org - Special Dispatch Series - No. 983: "COMMANDER OF HAMAS MILITARY WING WOMEN'S UNIT: 'Our Members Yearn for Martyrdom'" (September 9, 2005) (Read More...)

7 posted on 08/09/2006 12:38:01 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: GeronL

Extremely diverse.


8 posted on 08/09/2006 12:38:52 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: GodGunsGuts

Your interpretation is erroneous: putting aside the technology of the suicide bomber, one needs to include in the scope of consideration all those on suicidal missions. Thus, kamikaze pilots of WWII and, for example, one Gavrilo Princip [from 1914] need to be included. What is common to all of them is extra-strong sense of nationalistic identity. "Nationalistic" needs to be expanded to include supranational "umma" for foreign-born suicidal bombers in Iraq. But to include supranational class/ideological identity of conventionally defined communists could be a bit of a stretch. And if one is to talk of behavioral [i.e. non-traditionally defined] communists, then self-sacrifice is precluded by definition: could you imagine any circumstance under which hillary would go on suicidal mission? She could send others on it and not blink once, but to go herself? I hope that this illustration could help to clarify.


9 posted on 08/09/2006 12:42:31 AM PDT by GSlob
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To: GodGunsGuts

I read Bowden's Killing Pablo and I don't recall suicide bombers being mentioned in the book much less being widely used in the drug wars that went on down there. What I do recall is that Escobar used the car bomb to great effect, followed closely by the torture and killing of opponents, with what was left being dumped, for instructional purposes, in public places


10 posted on 08/09/2006 12:49:37 AM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: GSlob
Hi Gslob,

I agree with you re: non-traditional Communists like Hillary. However, according to this study, published in the NYT, the vast majority of suicide bombers come from Communist terrorist groups such as the DFLP (and many other hard-left groups). These are Communists who are under fanatical party discipline and are brainwashed to follow orders. BTW, the author of the article is obviously no conservative, and was quite startled by his own findings. He even went so far as to try and reinterpret/misinterpret his own data to deflect the reader away from the most obvious interpretation. The next question that the author should have researched is why are so many Communists engaged in the practice of suicide bombing, and which organization(s)/country(s) are directing them?
11 posted on 08/09/2006 1:29:44 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: familyop


12 posted on 08/09/2006 1:30:12 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts
What these suicide attackers — and their heirs today — shared was not a religious or political ideology but simply a commitment to resisting a foreign occupation. Nearly two decades of Israeli military presence did not root out Hezbollah. The only thing that has proven to end suicide attacks, in Lebanon and elsewhere, is withdrawal by the occupying force.

Occupation is simply an excuse, not a reason. The bombings are what percipitated the occupation not vice versa.

The culprit is totalitarian expansionism whether it be Communism or Islamism. They were on the march before they were resisted. Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton did not resist them and what did that get us? It got us attacked.

The only meaningful resistence has been when RWR expedited the collapse of the USSR and sent a missile into Mohamar Kaddafi's tent and when GWB invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. Reagan quieted Kaddafi and Bush tried to do the same to Saddam. We now need to take shots at the other leaders. Kill the head and the snake dies.

All this "we made them mad" stuff is pure pap. Occupation is a result of what they are doing not the cause. The Communists still intend to rule the world and so do the Islamists. We are in the way of both of them and that is why we are where we are.

13 posted on 08/09/2006 1:35:03 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done, needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

The point is, they are both working hand in glove against the US and its allies, such as Israel (indeed, they may be one and the same). I sure would like to know who/organization/country(s) are giving these fanatical Communists their orders. Wouldn't you???


14 posted on 08/09/2006 1:41:17 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: vbmoneyspender

==I read Bowden's Killing Pablo and I don't recall suicide bombers being mentioned in the book

I emailed my him about that. I'll ping you when he gets back to me. BTW, he is the author of numerous books and articles. Here's one of his articles, in case your interested:

http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~aphamala/pe/issue5/roots.htm


15 posted on 08/09/2006 1:45:12 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

OH... MY... GOD!

Tell me the New York Times isn't trying to say Muslims are not the ones to blame, when it comes to suicide bombings.

If lying were a capital crime, these sons of bitches would be dead already.


16 posted on 08/09/2006 1:46:48 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Bring your press credentials to Qana, for the world's most convincing terrorist street theater.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
[]Religious conservatives are less likely to commit suicide-bombings than disillusionized fanatics of the extreme left, and other mentally imbalanced people.[]

ya think?
The Hadith is as beloved to Islam as the Koran.
it has a lot of surahs that promote murder as well.
in kindergarten & pre-school they are already singing death songs about Jews.
key word:
mentally imbalanced people
shouldn't that read disillusioned?
17 posted on 08/09/2006 1:52:55 AM PDT by graced (some people are just unharvested free-range soylent green)
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To: DoughtyOne
==Tell me the New York Times isn't trying to say Muslims are not the ones to blame

Actually, I think the biggest lie in this NYT article is how the author tries to fog-up his own research. Rather than entertaining or asking the obvious questions, he simply reinterprets his own data to make it look like the reason all these Communists are blowing themselves up is because of their need to resist "occupation." In other words, these Communists are engaged in a "War of National Liberation." Problem is, in all wars of national liberation, the Communist never have any interest in liberating the target nation. Rather, they use such terminology to confuse the West. What they really mean by national liberation is destroying the target government and then merging that country into the Communist Empire. As I said above, that's why the author should have been asking A) Why are Communists blowing themselves up? B) What organization/regime(s) are giving them their orders? C) What is the strategic goal of those who direct these Communist fanatics (which may be quite different than the goals of certain Islamist groups, or perhaps they are one and the same)? Etc, etc...
18 posted on 08/09/2006 2:00:31 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: graced; Mind-numbed Robot; GeronL; Cindy

Thought you might want to read the following backgrounders. I think it will help to shed some light on this thread--GGG

We Are The Next Target

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1666922/posts

Terrorists in Muslim Disguise

http://www.worldthreats.com/russia_former_ussr/Terrorists%20In%20Muslim%20Diguise.htm

Russia's Game in the Middle East

http://www.anti-communistanalyst.com/Russiasgame.htm

The Roots of Islamic Terrorism

http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~aphamala/pe/issue5/roots.htm


19 posted on 08/09/2006 2:08:09 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thank you for the links.


20 posted on 08/09/2006 2:10:11 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: Cindy

Here's another good one. Hope you will take the time to read them. I think you will find them very worthwhile--GGG

Dangerous liaisons: covert ''love affair" between RUSSIA and HEZBOLLAH

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1666929/posts


21 posted on 08/09/2006 2:14:35 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

Thank you.


22 posted on 08/09/2006 2:29:03 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: GodGunsGuts
We've seen the co-operation between the Islamo-Fascists and the communists at anti-War demonstrations in the US.

Not only do fascists and communists help each other at anti-war demonstrations, fascism and communism can even reside within one person

Mussolini's Marxist Roots

So, how many people today are aware that Mussolini, that great Fascist ogre, was in his youth an incandescent revolutionary socialist, a labor-union agitator who was jailed for his pains (Hibbert, 1962)? He was as radical as any student radical of today. ...

After that he became one of Italy's most prominent Marxist theoreticians and an intimate of Lenin. He was in fact first dubbed "Il Duce" (the Leader) when he was a member of Italy's (Marxist) Socialist Party and between 1912 and 1914 he was the editor of their newspaper, "L'Avanti". After his split with the Socialist Party he started his own Leftist newspaper "Il Popolo d'Italia" ("The people of Italy").


23 posted on 08/09/2006 2:47:26 AM PDT by syriacus (It's a small world after all. I'd rather have Israelis as neighbors than have Hizb'allah as neigbors)
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To: GodGunsGuts
"The next question that the author should have researched is why are so many Communists engaged in the practice of suicide bombing, and which organization(s)/country(s) are directing them?"

Almost all publicly known business in Iran is owned by the government of Iran. The political leadership there recently discussed privatizing some of it (probably for propaganda purposes).
24 posted on 08/09/2006 3:10:35 AM PDT by familyop
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To: DoughtyOne
Tell me the New York Times isn't trying to say Muslims are not the ones to blame, when it comes to suicide bombings.

Not really. It seems that what they are trying to wiggle out of is that most Islamic terror groups are also hard line Communist terror groups. A bad combination we might agree.

Actually I wonder that this comes as such a shock as I have been saying that the Communists had supplied, trained and funded Islamic terror since the beginning. It was, I thought, common knowledge. As it should be common knowledge that the IRA is a hard-line communist terror group and FARC is a hard-line Communist terror group.

In fact if you look at terror groups around the world the thing they have in common is that they seem to be 99% communist.

25 posted on 08/09/2006 3:23:47 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (A propensity to hope and joy is real riches; one to fear and sorrow, real poverty)
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To: familyop

Dont look at the bombers, They are just simple minded fools. Look at where they are getting their bombs. Those are the smart ones. The ones that talk these fools into death while they supply the equipment.


26 posted on 08/09/2006 3:24:19 AM PDT by sgtbono2002 (The fourth estate is a fifth column.)
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To: syriacus

ping


27 posted on 08/09/2006 3:25:41 AM PDT by WorkerbeeCitizen (We need a maintenance Crusade)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

Thanks Teddy, great post. Might want to check out my links a few post up--GGG


28 posted on 08/09/2006 4:48:03 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: GodGunsGuts

"There is no reason to assume, that Christians would be immune to this phenomena"

Total BS.


29 posted on 08/09/2006 4:52:05 AM PDT by observer5 (It's not a War on Terror - it's a WAR ON STUPIDITY)
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To: vbmoneyspender

I don't either. I thought the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka originated the fad.


30 posted on 08/09/2006 4:55:18 AM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: GodGunsGuts

Well if the Islamofascists are also closet Commies, it does explain the lefts love affair with terrorists.


31 posted on 08/09/2006 4:56:52 AM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: observer5

==Total BS.

Ever hear of Liberation Theology? Communists disavow all moral rules (read Lenin's Left Wing Communism, an Infantile Disorder), so it is not a problem for them to disguise themselves in the garb of any religion.


32 posted on 08/09/2006 4:58:09 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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To: sgtbono2002
Dont look at the bombers, They are just simple minded fools. Look at where they are getting their bombs. Those are the smart ones. The ones that talk these fools into death while they supply the equipment.

Great point!!

33 posted on 08/09/2006 6:01:13 AM PDT by syriacus (It's a small world after all. I'd rather have Israelis as neighbors than have Hizb'allah as neigbors)
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To: Cindy

Bookmarked your post, with all the great links. Thanks!!


34 posted on 08/09/2006 6:09:35 AM PDT by syriacus (It's a small world after all. I'd rather have Israelis as neighbors than have Hizb'allah as neigbors)
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To: GodGunsGuts
My liberal sister moved to a new city and joined a matchmaking service there.

She told the service that she would be open to meeting a man of almost any religious background, except Islam.

One of her dates, about 3 or 4 weeks ago, was a Lebanese-American Christian (not Maronite; never been to Lebanon) who seemed nice enough at first.

After a while he began to speak heatedly about the Israelis and to recite his list of all the terrible things they have done to the Lebanese. He spoke disparagingly of the Jews in general. By the time he was through, he was speaking loudly about how accurate Mein Kampf was and suggesting she read it.

Amazing!! What you find when you scratch the surface of some folks.

35 posted on 08/09/2006 6:20:07 AM PDT by syriacus (It's a small world after all. I'd rather have Israelis as neighbors than have Hizb'allah as neigbors)
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To: GodGunsGuts

NY Times eating thier own yet again? An attack on communist? From liberals? Amazing.


36 posted on 08/09/2006 6:29:39 AM PDT by Porterville (Hispanic Republican American Bush Supporter)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Complete PRO ISLAMO-NAZI propaganda. Nonsense.


37 posted on 08/09/2006 6:34:07 AM PDT by SQUID
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To: GodGunsGuts

Remember that the Ba'ath party is like the Communist Party elsewhere.


38 posted on 08/09/2006 6:38:24 AM PDT by Thunder90
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

The idea that Communists are still trying to rule the world explains Russia's and China's actions regarding the Middle East crisis.


39 posted on 08/09/2006 6:40:11 AM PDT by Thunder90
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To: GodGunsGuts
" disillusionized fanatics of the extreme left, and other mentally imbalanced people."

Being mentally unbalanced is a requirement for being communist. Suicidal hate is a primary symptom of communism or indeed any other cult like ideology, be it the racism of fascism, or the earth worship of environmental terrorists, or the religious intolerance of Islam.

A test to see if an ideology is rational is if the ideology requires it's adherents to force others to follow it's precepts by whatever means necessary including death, imprisonment, and brain washing. If it does than that ideology is inherently evil and it's practitioners are mentally unbalanced at best.
40 posted on 08/09/2006 8:49:26 AM PDT by monday
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To: GodGunsGuts

When it comes to these efforts, I suspect they are driven by the same folks that are driving A.N.S.W.E.R. in the United States. It's a global effort to destroy governments that oppose the old socialist cabal. The leaders or members of the old Orange (I believe that was what it was called) party in Europe would be highly suspect.

I am by no means convinced that communists play a significant role in the suicide bombings in the Middle-East, but that is a gray area.

Do socialists/communists promote instability where they can? I believe they do. I still believe they are tapping into old hatreds and the radical Muslim element. And so I suppose you could say that those who play along are communist sympathizers (very loosely IMO), but I would say they are still Muslim at the core. I would say that they would be executing these efforts on their own if not for some instigation from outside the region.

It has been my premise for a long time that there is a unified effort that drives many of those behind illegal immigration, those behind the leftist civil unrest in the United States, the socialist movement across Europe and even the Middle-Eastern nations. But I do not buy into this writer's premise that communists, not Muslims are the problem as it applies to suicide bombings.

The Muslims are not being brainwashed to do what they are doing. They are intent on what they have been doing due to their own long-standing hatreds. Can that be exploited? Pehraps so. That certainly DOES NOT alleviate the underlying truth of who are carrying out the attacks, and what the major driving force always has been and remains to be.

Well, that's how I see it.


41 posted on 08/09/2006 10:40:12 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Bring your press credentials to Qana, for the world's most convincing terrorist street theater.)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

Please see post 41 for my thoughts on this. I believe we're pretty much on the same page, except for degrees.

Thank you.


42 posted on 08/09/2006 11:07:11 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Bring your press credentials to Qana, for the world's most convincing terrorist street theater.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
...Three [suicide-bombers] were Christians...

I wonder which of Christ's commands he thinks they were obeying. I don't find "explosives/demolition/murder" in my synopsis of Bible Doctrine.

43 posted on 08/09/2006 11:34:21 AM PDT by nonsporting
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To: Thunder90
The idea that Communists are still trying to rule the world explains Russia's and China's actions regarding the Middle East crisis.

If all would keep that in mind many things would become clearer.

44 posted on 08/09/2006 12:58:02 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done, needs to be done by the government.)
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To: syriacus

Thank you syriacus.


45 posted on 08/09/2006 2:16:52 PM PDT by Cindy
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To: sgtbono2002
"Dont look at the bombers, They are just simple minded fools. Look at where they are getting their bombs. Those are the smart ones. The ones that talk these fools into death while they supply the equipment."

That's a good point.
46 posted on 08/09/2006 4:03:05 PM PDT by familyop ("Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists" --President Bush)
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To: DoughtyOne
I understand what you are saying and partly agree.

It is a bit of a chicken or the egg thing.

However that Islamic terror groups were founded by communists is indisputable. That they have been supported, armed, trained and funded by communists is indisputable.

While most terrorists in the ME are Islamic, most in South America are "good" Catholics.

This does raise the question of where the true root of international terror lies.

Even if we could wave a wand and the entire ME suddenly became Buddhist the problem of Communist supported terror in the area would not go away.

47 posted on 08/09/2006 5:34:04 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (A propensity to hope and joy is real riches; one to fear and sorrow, real poverty)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

If you'll just consider the current situation with Hezbollah, you'll realize they are supported, financed and armed by other Muslims. Thanks for the comments.

The Muslim religion is driving this. You may not want to hear it, but it is.

Who has been paying the Palestinian's bills? In a word, Europe.

Sorry to have to disagree so stridently. Take care.


48 posted on 08/09/2006 8:13:25 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Bring your press credentials to Qana, for the world's most convincing terrorist street theater.)
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To: DoughtyOne
If you'll just consider the current situation with Hezbollah, you'll realize they are supported, financed and armed by other Muslims.

Yes, but they were founded by the USSR and frankly right now I would not be surprised if Russia was slipping them aid. Putin has come out in their support.

The Muslim religion is driving this

Terrorism? No. The current war that Israel is fighting? Yes.

Please understand that I am looking at this on a much broader scope then you are.

When the IRA and Hezbollah train together and then when the IRA goes to Columbia to train FARC how to be better killers there is far more then Islam driving this. And that is something you may not want to hear but it is so.

Who has been paying the Palestinian's bills? In a word, Europe.

Europe has stupidly given them money yes. But Russia and China both supply arms and training to the PLO and Hammas.

49 posted on 08/10/2006 2:46:59 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (A propensity to hope and joy is real riches; one to fear and sorrow, real poverty)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear


As it relates to Israel in the Middle East, the Muslim religion is most certainly driving the terrorism. From birth these kids are taught that Israelis are dogs or monkeys. Families teach this to their children. Schools teach it to them. Neighbors teach it to them. The media teaches it to them. The mosques teach it to them. You would have to believe that Communists took over the Muslim religion to retain your believe that Communism is the cause for terrorism in the Middle East. It simply isn't. Has it had some influence? I believe that it has, but the idea that the death of communism world-wide would usher in the end of strife in the Middle-East is ludacrist.

As for the Muslim religion driving terrorism around the planet, I've never claimed that.

From what I have read Socialist/Marxist groups had been influential with the IRA. I still don't think the IRA would have ceased to exist without that influence. The Palestinians did help train IRA operatives at some point. The IRA was not training the PLO.

Was the old USSR a destabalizing influence? Of course it was. It did have it's fingers in a lot of things, from the Middle-East, to Africa, across Europe and into South America. Perhaps the USSRs relationship with Syria was a catalyst for the Hezbollah and Hamas. I don't really know. That can be a catalyst for the development of Hezbollah. Communism still isn't the driving force. Hezbollah is not carrying out these acts because they are avowed Communists, intent on bringing Communism to the evil Jews.

This is a religious war. The Muslims are intent on ridding the Middle-East of the infidels. They are not intent on ridding the Middle-East of the evil capitalists. Capitalism is alive and well in the Middle-East.

I would suspect that you and I have a lot more in common on this subject than our discussion implies. I do think the old USSR was a major player in the old days. Russia still may be more of a player than we realize. I simply cannot sign on to the idea that Communism and not the Muslim religion is driving the Middle-Eastern conflict.


50 posted on 08/10/2006 10:42:19 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Bring your press credentials to Qana, for the world's most convincing terrorist street theater.)
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