Posted on 08/19/2006 3:56:52 AM PDT by DannyTN
Early Large Spiral Galaxy Resembles Milky Way 08/18/2006 
Astronomers using adaptive optics at the Very Large Telescope (VLT) in Paranal, Chile took spectra of a galaxy at red-shift 2.38 described as an “early young galaxy” that must have, according to current theory, formed very rapidly, because it looks like the Milky Way. The observations by Genzel et al., published in Nature,1 were described by Robert C. Kennicutt (editor of Astrophysical Journal) in the same issue of Nature2 this way:
On page 786 of this issue1, Genzel et al. present remarkable observations of what appears to be a newly formed spiral galaxy, observed when the Universe was just a fifth of its current age. The result is doubly significant: first, it provides the most detailed glimpse so far of the formation of a galaxy similar to our own Milky Way; second, it demonstrates the power of a new generation of high-resolution instruments that use adaptive optics to study the information and evolution of far-off galaxies.Though Kennicutt claims that our growing catalog of deep-space observations have given rise to “a self-consistent picture of the evolution of galaxies,” he did find it remarkable that such a distant galaxy would look so familiar:
The authors’ observations of BzK-15504 reveal it to be a giant spiral galaxy, with a size and mass similar to that of the Milky Way, but observed just 3 billion years after the Big Bang. It shows many similarities to present-day spiral galaxies, with rotational properties that, again, are nearly identical to those of the Milky Way. These similarities are notable because they imply that at least some large disk galaxies were broadly in place even at these early cosmic epochs.He says that the spectra imply a rapid burst of star formation in this galaxy 50 times greater than that assumed in our own. The authors of the paper, after stating the “framework” of galaxy evolution, admitted to some anomalies in the picture:
It remains unclear, however, over what timescales galaxies were assembled and when and how bulges and disks—the primary components of present-day galaxies—were formed. It is also puzzling that the most massive galaxies were more abundant and were forming stars more rapidly at early epochs than expected from models.Everyone thought large spiral galaxies formed late in the evolution of the cosmos. Kennicut said, “large spiral galaxies with well-developed disks similar to the Milky Way are conspicuously absent in both observations and models of the early Universe. These large spirals are expected to form rather late, so one would not expect to find many of them at early times,” he added. But why there are any galaxies this large and mature at such an early age? “Both these and other results from the same programme are challenging theorists to account for the existence of such massive and well-formed galaxies at such early cosmic epochs, he added, changing the subject to the promise of adaptive optics to answer that question.
The juxtaposition of cockiness about their models and head-scratching about the particulars is what is puzzling. To keep the model together, they have to have this galaxy, which is surely representative of billions more, forming stars and evolving so rapidly that it looks mature at one-fifth the assumed age of the universe. This pattern of early maturity is the Cambrian Explosion of cosmology, also known as the Lumpiness Problem. The early universe shows much more structure (lumpiness) than expected from a nearly homogeneous expansion of an initially uniform particle soup (uniform, that is, to within one part in a hundred thousandth of a degree temperature of the cosmic background radiation). Astronomers seem to take their lumps in stride. Sometimes, however, discretion is the better part of valor.
Next headline on: Astronomy • Cosmology • Dating Methods
They're looking at Uranus.
Careful, you're getting Barney excited.
They've proposed changing the name of Uranus because of the number of jokes. The new name will be Urectum.
LOL, Urkidding!
ROFL
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"Early Large Spiral Galaxy Resembles Milky Way" --- nah, Baby Ruth
Wait a second... How does anyone "know" what the Milky Way looks like?
Scientists for years thought it was a typical spiral but there is now proof it is a "bar spiral".
Is that anything like a crow bar?
VERY good point!
Thanks for bringing this up.
I would presume it'd take a little modeling to get a birds eye view, so to speak, but we ought to have a pretty good vantage point.
Either way, it's evolutionists that are saying the galaxy looks like the Milky Way.
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What are your scientific credentials for making such an asinine leap of association?
How the h3!! does your mini-mind make the leap from Darwininan (earthly) biology to red-shift 2.38 cosmology?
Let me guess: neither discipline agrees with your medieval misinterpretation of Genesis...
Next time, post on a subject about which you have a flea's chance of understanding.
Evolutionists? Um...er... ok
Yeah, I thought about that.
I never understood how they think they can see that far back in time anyway. The Universe would have had to start out almost the size of the universe in order for the light to just now be reaching us. Either that or inflation would have to approach the speed of light, to keep the light from have passing us by eons ago.
"What are your scientific credentials for making such an asinine leap of association? " - TXnMA
I can read.
Notice the third paragraph. 'Kennicutt claims that our growing catalog of deep-space observations have given rise to “a self-consistent picture of the evolution of galaxies,”'
See post 17
If so I guess you are an evolutionist
It is perhaps unfortunate that the term evolution is applied to both organic entities and stellar entities. Stellar evolution might be better called stellar aging.
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