I am asking each of you to please read this and give our friend your advice. You might be able to make a big difference in someone's life today.
Freegards, RobFromGa
Posted on 08/28/2006 4:09:24 AM PDT by RobFromGa
Dear Rob,
"Cheated" twice with a couple beers a couple times over the last couple days, though, nominally, it'll be three weeks "clean" on Tuesday. This adds to guilt, but is the only way I can get myself relaxed enough to keep from bawling out of extremely-uncool and undeserved self-pity.
I'm under great medical observation, and a crapload of antidepressants [x,y, and z].
Tell me, Rob, what it is I'm recovering "from" and why, since this world is such a [messed up] place? When I was a drunk, sure, I'd be moody in the mornings, productive at work (and I NEVER drank during the day), and everyone's friend once I got home. Now it's just constant depression and having to face a [messed] up world (with way too many liberals in it .
I'm a very proud, spiritual Christian, but I'm even too ashamed to pray, at least at length, since both He and I know that I am the problem.
The real abstraction here is if this horrid beautiful watery place is better with or without my presence. That last sentence isn't a "cry for help - please hug me I'm hurting, Oprah" throwaway - it's a serious question about which me is better: the happy, intoxicated, likely-to-be-shorter-lived friend of everyone, or the stoic, medicated, spooked, depressed sober me who no one will ever trust again since he had such "deep issues".
What I need is reason/cognition/rationalization, and maybe I'll increase my [x] or extend it for a couple more weeks.
You're an Internet pal, trustworthy by sheer virtue of being a Conservative, and, your advice and wisdom is easier to follow exactly because I do NOT know you personally.
If you don't mind redacting my screenname, feel free to poll/ping the Recovery List. I'll "come out" when I'm ready, I promise.
God Bless You and have a great week,
I am asking for fellow Freepers to please help this person if you have any good advice for our friend.
I am asking each of you to please read this and give our friend your advice. You might be able to make a big difference in someone's life today.
Freegards, RobFromGa
Therefore, that I might not become too elated, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, an angel of Satan, to beat me, to keep me from being too elated. (2Cor 12:7)Everyone has a "thorn" that they can not remove on their own.
any advice?
An attack on self is irrational, anti-life.
Life, unknown FReeper.
life
I will gladly offer my prayer support for our FRiend.
It can't hurt to offer up a prayer, so I'll do that right now. I sincerely hope help arrives for this needy soul.
Get involved, volunteer your time and help people who really are in a bad way.
YOur friend will learn to appreciate what he has and realize what real problems are out there.
"Sneaking a few" is just a symptom of trying to kill off some other pain. I've seen people in on a "dry drunk" for literally years - and it never gets any better.
IMNSHO (realizing but for the grace of god..) Lose the booze, loose the drugs, get to meetings, and get a kick-a$$ sponsor - not one that tells you what you want to hear, but the one who tells you how to remain alive long enough to enjoy life again. The rules of the game are posted in every room you could drag yourself into, why not try making them work for once.
Just remember - you alone must do it, but you can not do it alone.
--
34 days short of 22 years sober.
Though I would not know how to advise this fellow FReeper, I have just said a prayer for him -- that the Lord would lift the depression from him, and restore joy and purpose to his life.
Godspeed to recovery.
Dear Friend,
You are going through the toughest part right now, you are not yet sure that life without the alcohol can be just as good or better than with it, and you are missing out on what you perceive as the "fun" part.
From my experience, and you'll have to trust me on this one, it will get better.
You need to quit worrying so much about what others may or may not think of you because you have decided to fix this problem. And you need to be away from people and environments that make you feel less than comfortable. If you need to get rid of some friends and make new ones, that is a price of your health. Any real friend should understand that you are doing what you think is best.
With that said, it will be difficult to hang around with old drinking buddies for two reasons, 1. they make you see the old idealized "good times" in your mind, and 2. they likely look at your quitting as a unspoken signal that you think you are now better than them because you are in control and they aren't. (even if you aren't preachy, you are showing them up by your actions)
I would suggest that you make up a new Freeper name just for now so that you can respond anonymously to these replies if you would like to. Or you can just listen.
The last and maybe most important point, you state that:
"I'm a very proud, spiritual Christian, but I'm even too ashamed to pray, at least at length, since both He and I know that I am the problem."
I think you are being WAY TOO HARD on yourself here. You have the gift of faith but you are imaging that God is judging you negatively for your faults which you are attempting to fix. I would encourage you to pray long and hard on what you wrote, and maybe even write out in longhand exactly why this statement must be false. You need to get God on your side and not view him as just another person that thinks you are a loser.
Because you are not.
I am sure that many Freepers will be praying hard for you, and will give you advice. We all respect your struggle and want you to find happiness. But you need to get your head straight.
Your Friend,
Rob
TURNING TOWARD THE MORNING
(Gordon Bok)
When the deer has bedded down
And the bear has gone to ground,
And the northern goose has wandered off
To warmer bay and sound,
It's so easy in the cold to feel
The darkness of the year
And the heart is growing lonely
For the morning
Oh, my Joanie, don't you know
That the stars are swinging slow,
And the seas are rolling easy
As they did so long ago?
If I had a thing to give you,
I would tell you one more time
That the world is always turning
Toward the morning.
Now October's growing thin
And November's coming home;
You'll be thinking of the season
And the sad things that you've seen,
And you hear that old wind walking,
Hear him singing high and thin,
You could swear he's out there singing
Of your sorrow.
When the darkness falls around you
And the Northwind come to blow,
And you hear him call you name out
As he walks the brittle snow:
That old wind don't mean you trouble,
He don't care or even know,
He's just walking down the darkness
Toward the morning.
It's a pity we don't know
What the little flowers know.
They can't face the cold November They can't take the wind and snow
: They put their glories all behind them,
Bow their heads and let it go,
But you know they'll be there shining
In the morning.,p> Now, my Joanie, don't you know
That the days are rolling slow,
And the winter's walking easy,
As he did so long ago?
And, if that wind would come and ask you,
"Why's my Joanie weeping so?"
Wont you tell him that you're weeping
For the morning?
and my favorite
The MAry Ellen Carter
Stan Rogers
She went down last October in a pouring driving rain.
The skipper, he'd been drinking and the Mate, he felt no pain.
Too close to Three Mile Rock, and she was dealt her mortal blow,
And the Mary Ellen Carter settled low.
There were five of us aboard her when she finally was awash.
We'd worked like hell to save her, all heedless of the cost.
And the groan she gave as she went down, it caused us to proclaim
That the Mary Ellen Carter would rise again.
Well, the owners wrote her off; not a nickel would they spend.
She gave twenty years of service, boys, then met her sorry end.
But insurance paid the loss to them, they let her rest below.
Then they laughed at us and said we had to go.
But we talked of her all winter, some days around the clock,
For she's worth a quarter million, afloat and at the dock.
And with every jar that hit the bar, we swore we would remain
And make the Mary Ellen Carter rise again.
Rise again, rise again, that her name not be lost To the knowledge of men.
Those who loved her best and were with her till the end
Will make the Mary Ellen Carter rise again.
All spring, now, we've been with her on a barge lent by a friend.
Three dives a day in hard hat suit and twice I've had the bends.
Thank God it's only sixty feet and the currents here are slow
Or I'd never have the strength to go below.
But we've patched her rents, stopped her vents, dogged hatch and porthole down.
Put cables to her, 'fore and aft and birded her around.
Tomorrow, noon, we hit the air and then take up the strain.
And watch the Mary Ellen Carter Rise Again.
For we couldn't leave her there, you see, to crumble into scale.
She'd saved our lives so many times, living through the gale
And the laughing, drunken rats who left her to a sorry grave
They won't be laughing in another day. . .
And you, to whom adversity has dealt the final blow
With smiling bastards lying to you everywhere you go
Turn to, and put out all your strength of arm and heart and brain
And like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again.
Rise again, rise again - though your heart it be broken And life about to end
No matter what you've lost, be it a home, a love, a friend.
Like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again.
I sincerely hope this helps, it gets me through the Tough times.
prisoner6
"What I need is reason/cognition/rationalization, and maybe I'll increase my [x] or extend it for a couple more weeks."
A deep spiritual awareness would help direct one's focus away from self and loving acts toward others. Get involved with humanitarian, weekend missionary deeds. There are plenty of people who have serious survival needs (spiritual and material)in one's own back yard. Anyone can make a big difference in other peoples lives.
I may be way off base, but I have seen this work. In God's Hand's...wondrous things are wrought.
This person needs to get to AA meetings and get a sponser who's been sober for years and won't be manipulated. Good luck, it wont't be easy.
1.) Pride has no place in a relationship with God or Jesus -
2.) Yes, He does know you are the problem - precisely why He sent Jesus to bridge the gap
Start praying...........today
Psalm 34 was a huge help to me when I had a nervous breakdown a decade ago
1 I will extol the LORD at all times; his praise will always be on my lips. 2 My soul will boast in the LORD; let the afflicted hear and rejoice. 3 Glorify the LORD with me; let us exalt his name together. 4 I sought the LORD, and he answered me; he delivered me from all my fears. 5 Those who look to him are radiant; their faces are never covered with shame. 6 This poor man called, and the LORD heard him; he saved him out of all his troubles. 7 The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them. 8 Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him. 9 Fear the LORD, you his saints, for those who fear him lack nothing. 10 The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the LORD lack no good thing. 11 Come, my children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the LORD. 12 Whoever of you loves life and desires to see many good days, 13 keep your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking lies. 14 Turn from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it. 15 The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their cry; 16 the face of the LORD is against those who do evil, to cut off the memory of them from the earth. 17 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears them; he delivers them from all their troubles. 18 The LORD is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. 19 A righteous man may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all; 20 he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken. 21 Evil will slay the wicked; the foes of the righteous will be condemned. 22 The LORD redeems his servants; no one will be condemned who takes refuge in him.
God bless him, I will pray for him.
25+ years ODAT here.
There is a better way but I do remember the old way, the utter soul sickness and despair, the pity pot.
Thank God I'm free today.
My advice to the sick person is what's already been said. Get in AA and work the program one day at a time.
"When someone is down, kick him in the seat of the pants. Gives them an incentive to get up."
Brother Dave Gardner
You need to find a third choice since neither of these is appealing,
You need to create that third choice, but I would suggest that it includes healthy, sober, well-adjusted and grateful me that everyone loves and trusts. Bring this person into existence and you will have succeeded. And make no mistake, this person is inside of you, you just need to uncover him.
Are you aware that when Michalangelo did a sculpture he believed that the essence of the sculpture was already inside of the stone and that he was just chipping away the extraneous stone around it. You might want to think of yourself as a better person who is being created. You control what that creation will look like.
I'm here if you need someone to talk to, anytime....sparklingeviain@yahoo.com God is there for you, I promise!
He ain't heavy
He's my brother.
I won't enable him in any way, but I will help. I'll contact you under separate cover with my offer: and it is a take-it-or-leave-it proposition for our FRiend.
*DieHard the Guardian Angel*
but I'm even too ashamed to pray
Dear Freeper and friend...
This is exactly what Satan wants....he wants you too ashamed to reach out to the only help out there.....the God of the universe, the one who made you ....who knit you together in your mother's womb.
Help is a prayer away!!!
There was a time, under different circumstances, I too thought there was no hope...
..and all I could muster was 'God help!'...
He did.
Please please pray....and meantime, many of us will be praying intercessory prayers for you.
In the kindest tone I can muster, your friend needs to remember that we are ALL living in this world. Not just him/her. And complaining about it sounds like a cop-out, IMO. There are more personal issues your friend hasn't addressed, I'd bet. Issues that very much need addressing.
it's a serious question about which me is better: the happy, intoxicated, likely-to-be-shorter-lived friend of everyone, or the stoic, medicated, spooked, depressed sober me who no one will ever trust again since he had such "deep issues".
The person is selling his friends, family and acquaintances short. Sounds like being afraid to trust that he/she can be accepted without the booze. Or, he/she is inventing rationale and justification to return to drinking.
In addition to not acknowleging the real possibility of harming or killing another innocent person while being "happy, intoxicated and likely-to-be-shorter-lived".
Lots of denial, rationalization and excuses still going on, it seems. I'm praying for your friend.
I am so sorry for your loss. You bring up very good points about the minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day survival process that is crucial to getting through crisis and overcoming addiction.
I suffered life threatening depression and lots of alcohol abuse following the death of my wife.
It takes time. But I started focusing on nutrition, and I can say unequivocally that certain things DO HELP.
I take Vit D, Calcium and Magnesium daily. And if I miss a day, the first place it shows is my mood. Same affect for my mutt.
People do not know how great the group really is. Millions have used it to get back their self-respect and self-confidence enough to give up the alcohol - a true poison to the brain.
I pray for you to turn back to God, in Jesus name.
Prayers sent for your friend.
This is the only way I made it through.
Things will get better but not overnight and not in just a short time.
Hang in there!
Wow, thanks for sharing your story. You give good advice to those in pain, thanks. We do not solve these issues all at once, it is a process and it gets easier as time passes. I am sorry for your loss.
A woman I care very much about got messed up pretty badly, partially but not primarily due to her own acts. She has almost completely recovered...physically.
She is a Christian believer, though not a "conventional" one. I'm more of a Deist than anything else, I don't neccesarily believe in prayer or "divine intervention", though I don't entirely disbelieve in the latter.
She's been attributing her recovery to divine intervention, and not giving herself any credit. Indeed, she gets irked with me when I say that she deserves much of the credit.
Finally I told her that giving herself some of the credit doesn't neccesarily take away from any assistance she got from God, any more than it takes away from what the docs did to save her life. I mentioned that if anything, God would be proud of her for fighting for her recovery, just like her family is and I am. This seemed to sink in quite a bit.
It sounds like your friend has been through the tough part, and has plenty to be proud of, so if prayer is truly a source of strength for him/her, there's absolutely no reason to refrain out of shame.
-Eric
A lot of what I want to say has been said before, but I will speak from the heart.
I too remember the cold dark place of self-loathing: I am so sorry you find yourself there. You must stand and go forth from there.
Put the plug in the jug: I told myself 15 years ago that if I didn't put booze in my mouth today, I could say I'd done one thing perfectly right. Take that as a small goal for today, and that will be enough.
It gets better. Giving up alcohol is like the funeral of your best friend. Don't make big plans or drastic changes. Just keep it simple. See previous paragraph.
Active Alcoholism (drinking) is about self-pity, denial, darkness, compulsion, obsession, repeat. That's the ride you chose. That's the ride you're on. Get off. See above.
There will be a brighter day. Your esteem will return but you must do esteemable things. Small ones first, see above.
Get involved, volunteer your time and help people who really are in a bad way.
YOur friend will learn to appreciate what he has and realize what real problems are out there.
You've got to be kidding.
Hopefully, you don't volunteer at a place where people are in need of compassion or empathy.
Tell your friend to give himself a break and remember that especially in recovery----good comes very slow and bad comes very quickly.
Prayer, above all, and service, as others have stated, truly are healing.
Your friend doesn't seem to be tempted during work, so he/she should work or serve until its time to pray and sleep. Repeat daily. If you aren't in AA or NA, get there quickly. You'll be amazed at how many of us are just like you. Things will get better my friend.
As others have said on here, it doesn't sound as if your friend was ever really sober. Sobriety is about a lot more than not drinking. I had to find out that our disease is spiritual, physical and mental (and it is primarily spiritual), and that is what our recovery needs to be as well.
They also used the word "proud" and ANYTIME I hear pride/proud used by a newcomer in ANY context, it sends up a "red flag" in my head. Pride is deadly for us and it needs to be eliminated.
This person needs a sponsor that has been sober for a long time and that he can see face to face on a very regular basis. I have long been hesitant to sponsor newcomers who are in therapy and are on medication. ALL newcomers are depressed, but most of this depression is from too much drinking and guilt, I don't believe they need more medication. By the same token, I am not going to sponsor someone who is going to take everything I say and run it by their shrink. I have been sober a long time, if someone wants me to sponsor them, then that is what they are going to get, but I WILL NOT "co-sponsor" somebody with a therapist.
re: AA
I think that one big value that can be gained from AA is the recognition that you are not a frek show, and that there are millions who have travelled the same road.
Anything I have done, there are many who have done far worse.
Anything that I have lost, there are many who have lost far more.
Any adversity I have overcome, there are many who have overcome far more.
So AA was, for me, about finding out that I am not the only person who had these thoughts and problems. That removed one major burden.
Somebody told me when I was first getting sober that:
- First it gets better,
- Then it gets worse,
- Then it gets different,
- Then it gets real different,
- Then it gets real.
I didn't have a clue what that meant at the time, but after about ten years it finally made sense.
Incoming FReepmail.
I've seen a lot of good advice, can't offer much more. I will pray for you and I agree don't stop praying. And if you have a good mom, go see her.
The bootstraps are broken. They need mending and it's going to take time. If you can't show a little empathy, then don't bother.
your points on therapy, medication and recovery are well taken.
These things can have some value esp during the physical withdrawal stages but at some point it can become enabling.
Because the mental (spiritual) aspect of recovery is the deepest part.
I went to AA meetings, and I kept a detailed journal during this first six to nine months, and as I would sit in the AA meetings, a million thoughts would go through my head on a topic. By the time it came to be my turn to share, I would usually have a pretty good grip on how that issue related to my experience. So, after the meeting I would usually write for ten or fifteen minutes and capture my thoughts.
Our depressed FRiend should spend more time examining his thinking with the help of a long-time sober sponsor.
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