Cannabis should be decriminalized for the same reasons that alcohol is

The Prometheus Institute ^ | 8/28/2006 | Editorial

[tang0r]

It turns out that alcohol is legal for the simplest, most nostalgic, and most American reason of all. Despite its risks and harmful side-effects, adults are reserved right to drink because they are independent adults in a free country. For all of the empty rhetoric about economics and black markets, the end of Prohibition was due to a single principle: even if drinking may be bad for society, government has no right to keep the people from doing it. The ability to get drunk is an inalienable right that we have forever confirmed with the 18th Amendment.

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

You may be right, but I don't think so. I believe MJ would still be traded on the black market. Also, legalizing it would tempt people to try it, since it is legal.

[DungeonMaster]

"The stated goals of current U.S.drug policy -- reducing crime, drug addiction, and juvenile drug use -- have not been achieved, even after nearly four decades of a policy of "war on drugs". This policy, fueled by over a trillion of our tax dollars has had little or no effect on the levels of drug addiction among our fellow citizens, but has instead resulted in a tremendous increase in crime and in the numbers of Americans in our prisons and jails. With 4.6% of the world's population, America today has 22.5% of the worlds prisoners. But, after all that time, after all the destroyed lives and after all the wasted resources, prohibited drugs today are cheaper, stronger, and easier to get than they were thirty-five years ago at the beginning of the so-called "war on drugs"...LEAP

Prove that everything would be better if drugs were legal. I'd also really like to see proof of the 22.5% of the worlds prisoners thing.

Simply pointing out that drugs are a problem does nothing to prove that legal drugs fixes anything. Legal drugs may just as easily cause many many more and different problems but for anyone to ignore that possibility makes their logic pretty suspect.

[hellbender]

"I think it's more proper to say: "There is evidence that people who try illegal activity including alcohol & tobacco consumption at an early age are more like to continue their propensity for illegal activity in the future."

I think it's true that people who show an early tendency to flout the law will continue to do so, yes. But I also think there is evidence that people who are willing to put one mind-altering deleterious substance into their brain are likely to do so with other substances. Others who might be tempted are constrained by social or legal stigma, concern about health, or by monetary costs. Removing these impediments and making pot freely available will make more people use the stuff. I don't think society will be better for that. We have enough problem with legal drugs.

[SoothingDave]

If pot becomes legal, and if it's as harmless as it's fans say, then I would expect that it would become very popular.

I suspect it is about as popular as it is going to get already. The drug is available now.

Cops would not just have to worry about drunk drivers, but hordes of stoned drivers as well.

There is a point to be made that police would need new tools to ascertain impairment. But I don't believe that the status quo will change that much. Those people who want to smoke pot and go out cruising already are.

One could argue that the number of drivers may go down, as legality negates the need to be on the open road where the fumes don't cause suspicion.

You may not have done so, but many advocates say that decriminalization would "take away the profits of the crime syndicates." Actually, overall profits could go up, because consumption would increase. And who's to say that giant co's like Coors, Anheuser-Busch, etc. wouldn't go into the business?

More power to'em. I would rather companies than crime syndicates run the business, and I have no philosophical objections to capitalism.

SD

[philman_36]

Alcohol is a bad thing. Drink enough and you can be impaired for a day or even two.
Marijuana, however, impairs a user for weeks.
Highlights from Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts
MYTH: MARIJUANA'S ACTIVE INGREDIENT, THC, GETS TRAPPED IN BODY FAT. Because THC is released from fat cells slowly, psychoactive effects may last for days or weeks following use. THC's long persistence in the body damages organs that are high in fat content, the brain in particular.

FACT: Many active drugs enter the body's fat cells. What is different (but not unique) about THC is that it exits fat cells slowly. As a result, traces of marijuana can be found in the body for days or weeks following ingestion. However, within a few hours of smoking marijuana, the amount of THC in the brain falls below the concentration required for detectable psychoactivity. The fat cells in which THC lingers are not harmed by the drug's presence, nor is the brain or other organs. The most important consequence of marijuana's slow excretion is that it can be detected in blood, urine, and tissue long after it is used, and long after its psychoactivity has ended.

Drugs of Abuse

Cannabis

---

Drug

Dependence Physical/Psychological

How Used

Duration (hours)

---

Marijuana	Unknown/Moderate	Smoked, oral pot, grass	2-4
Tetrahydro- cannabinol	Unknown/Moderate	Smoked, oral	2-4
Hashish	Unknown/Moderate	Smoked, oral	2-4
Hashish Oil	Unknown/Moderate	Smoked, oral	2-4

Alcohol

---

Drug

Dependence Physical/Psychological

How Used

Duration (hours)

---

Ethyl Alcohol	Possible/Possible	Oral	1-4
Ethanol	Possible/Possible	Oral	1-4

Even the government doesn't believe the BS you BELIEVE!

[hellbender]

"I suspect it is about as popular as it is going to get already. The drug is available now." This seems to ignore everything we know about supply, prices, consumption, and human behavior! It also ignores the arguments that legalization will lower prices and therefore drive the criminals out. I have no objection to capitalism either, but if large "legal' corporations get involved, you will see advertising and other promotion, and more people will be persuaded to use the stuff. If you don't believe that, then you must think co's are stupid to spend billions on advertising, sponsoring auto racing, etc.

We are stuck with alcohol. It's been part of every culture for thousands of years. In fact, there's evidence some ethnic groups have evolved the ability to handle it relatively well. However, it's still a multibillion-dollar health and social problem. Once other drugs are legalized and go "mainstream," I think we will see that problem multiplied.

[Sir Gawain]

I believe MJ would still be traded on the black market.

Walk up to any drug dealer in Amsterdam and ask for MJ. I'll bet you 99.9999% won't have it and will just laugh at you. But sure it will still be traded on the black market but it will be greatly diminished. You don't hear about too many moonshine operations these days do you?

Also, legalizing it would tempt people to try it, since it is legal

Same as the analogy I used before, if prostitution becomes legal, will it make you more likely to hire a prostitute?

[monkfan]

It turns out that alcohol is legal for the simplest, most nostalgic, and most American reason of all. Despite its risks and harmful side-effects, adults are reserved right to drink because they are independent adults in a free country.

God bless America

[philman_36]

The pot crowd has been particularly active the past few days.
The anti-freedom statist crowd seems to be busy as well.
I think it maybe because of the Colorado referendum.
Nice ploy. "The pot crowd", as you so euphemistically call those who don't support the WOsD, always seems active. There's no need for a special referendum for the debate to come up.
You should know. You've been on enough drug threads when there was nothing going on at all and still the debate raged.

[Ouderkirk]

I think I'll pass on the legalize drugs of every sort, thank you.

I really doubt that we'll see much of a net increase in lives lost....and what if you are wrong? Without some empirical evidence to support your theory it doesn't give me a warm an fuzzy feeling.

With respect to restoring the constitution, as it were...legalizing drugs pretty much comes up lacking.

You seem to think that if drugs were legal and taxable that there would be no black market for these things. I point to black market cigarettes as a prime example of the failure of your assertion.

Would the ease of availability of drugs reduce crime....I doubt that. Sheer fantasy (or pipe dream).

[Sir Gawain]

Would the ease of availability of drugs reduce crime....I doubt that. Sheer fantasy (or pipe dream).

What if you were a Mexican drug lord and one day you wake up and the millions of acres of crop that help sustain your empire are no longer profitable? Seems like that would reduce crime to me.

The only reason black market anything exists is because the government doesn't understand supply and demand. If you keep raising the price above its market value via taxes, of course the free market economy will adjust itself and you will start seeing the mafia peddling cigarettes and booze again. They'll undercut the government, factor in the risk involved, and still come out making a profit. The blame for this lies squarely at the government's feet.

[SoothingDave]

This seems to ignore everything we know about supply, prices, consumption, and human behavior!

I don't care how low the price of a Michael Moore books goes, I'm not interested. Just because something is made legal (or cheaper), that doesn't mean people will necessarily suddenly desire it.

It also ignores the arguments that legalization will lower prices and therefore drive the criminals out.

Prices should be high enough to provide revenue and low enough to discourage black marketeers. The state does this with booze now. There are not a whole lot of people making bathtub gin and not a whole lot of gangsters having gunbattles to see who controls the supplies to the speakeasies.

I have no objection to capitalism either, but if large "legal' corporations get involved, you will see advertising and other promotion, and more people will be persuaded to use the stuff. If you don't believe that, then you must think co's are stupid to spend billions on advertising, sponsoring auto racing, etc.

You assume there will be no regulation. I don't see that kind of thing playing out. Don't look for Coors Cannabis to be sponsoring the new scoreboard at your local high school.

SD

[mysterio]

I think I'll pass on the legalize drugs of every sort, thank you.

I think I'll pass on the police state and wasted tax dollars designed to prevent adults from deciding what is ok to ingest.

...and what if you are wrong? Without some empirical evidence to support your theory it doesn't give me a warm an fuzzy feeling.

Well, we know how many are killed by the black market and the rest of the failed war on some drugs every year. We know how much alcohol related deaths changed when it was legalized. So it's not too much of a stretch to say that the transition will probably be death-neutral.

With respect to restoring the constitution, as it were...legalizing drugs pretty much comes up lacking.

Huh? We could get rid of the idiotic seizure laws and we could restore the fourth Amendment. Every single encroachment on the Constitution that was part of the failed war on some drugs could be rescinded.

You seem to think that if drugs were legal and taxable that there would be no black market for these things. I point to black market cigarettes as a prime example of the failure of your assertion.

Once again, your example is the result of prohibitionary policy, this time in the form of punitive taxes. We don't have high taxes on smokes in my area, so there's no black market here. Additionally, I point to the drop in black market alcohol since it has been legalized. The drop is precipitous.

Would the ease of availability of drugs reduce crime....I doubt that. Sheer fantasy (or pipe dream).

Absolutely. And it would take control out out the hands of fWO(s)D zealots and put it back in the hands of grownups.

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

Moonshine is for sale in Georgia. It was more popular 30 years ago when most of Georgia's rural counties were "dry" and you had to drive 30-40 miles to buy booze. Still, moonshine is available, just not a much as it was during prohibition. If you start taxing booze too much, moonshine will become more popular.

[philman_36]

It's use is also tied to the development of schizophrenia and clinical depression.
MORE BS...you want me to prove it too?

[Ouderkirk]

Not very convincing....if you think the mexican drug lord is just going to roll over you're dilusional. Since he's a criminal already does it not occur to you that he will engage in some other criminal behavior.

[Stone Mountain]

Marijuana, however, impairs a user for weeks.

Damn, where are you getting your stuff?

[Sir Gawain]

Since he's a criminal already does it not occur to you that he will engage in some other criminal behavior.

Yeah but if you get to pick a target to hit him where it hurts, you pick the most widely used target. Sure he'll still have coke, heroin, etc, but none of those have the widespread use and semi-societal acceptance of MJ.

[Sir Gawain]

And as far as I know, the only alternative is to have massive crackdowns and executions certain Asian countries do. I'm all for hearing your strategies on how to win this War on Some Drugs though. What we're doing isn't working (not fully committed to the cause because the government gets a nice cut).

[monkfan]

There are clearly not enough drug sniffing dogs deployed in public places and we need enough to randomly patrol neighborhoods and see what they can sniff out. We should do random drug tests at each concert venue and ball park. One period of each school day should be spent pulling students out at random. Anyone who has ever been in possession should have drug testing for at least ten years until they prove they are no longer using.

Kiss 4th amendment rights goodbye.

We'll win this war if we have to go bankrupt doing it.

If you want to go bankrupt on this, that's your business, but I'd rather you left me out of it. Quit reaching into my pocket to fund your so-called war.