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Son Gets Marijuana for Doing Homework
http://www.comcast.net/ ^ | 9 12 06 | Associated Press

Posted on 09/12/2006 11:14:43 AM PDT by freepatriot32

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To: mugs99

Well for example, wine has nutritional content and the body can use it. The body doesn't need pot and to my knowledge there is no nutritional content.

Also, in OT times and even NT times, the water in some areas was not good, so people could drink wine and obtain fluids this way.

If you are trying to compare alcohol to pot as if they are even closely related in any way, you are a nutter.


101 posted on 09/14/2006 4:36:12 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: Paved Paradise
If you are trying to compare alcohol to pot as if they are even closely related in any way, you are a nutter.
I'm not. Alcohol is a dangerous drug...Marijuana is not.

Well for example, wine has nutritional content and the body can use it. The body doesn't need pot and to my knowledge there is no nutritional content
Marijuana has nutritional content and the body can use it. In fact, marijuana has been used as food for over five thousand years. Marijuana will support life. Alcohol will not.

Everything you think you know about marijuana is wrong. Volumes of research have been published since medical marijuana was legalized in California.

The latest...Alzheimers disease. Medical marijuana supporters have been claiming since 1996 that marijuana helps stop alzheimers disease.
That claim has now been proven by scientists.
Investigators at The Scripps Research Institute in California reported that THC inhibits the enzyme responsible for the aggregation of amyloid plaque — the primary marker for Alzheimer's disease — in a manner "considerably superior" to approved Alzheimer's drugs such as donepezil and tacrine. "Our results provide a mechanism whereby the THC molecule can directly impact Alzheimer's disease pathology," researchers concluded. "THC and its analogues may provide an improved therapeutic option for Alzheimer's disease by... simultaneously treating both the symptoms and the progression of the disease".

Marijuana has also been proven to be more effective than Ritalin to treat kids with ADD...with none of the dangerous side effects of Ritalin.

Want more?
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102 posted on 09/14/2006 6:18:49 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: Just another Joe; SoldierDad
I also was one of them ... also a valedictorian and National Merit Scholarship winner.
103 posted on 09/16/2006 2:48:42 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: mugs99

No, unless you have some clinical and scientific data you can linke for me. If you want to PROVE something, I want hard information. I think the proof is in the pudding on this topic. I realize that alcohol has destroyed many lives but it IS legal and more people use it. If the same #s used pot, I think we'd be in DEEP, DEEP doo-doo. I've seen it ruin a few lives so I have had enough of my own anecdotal evidence to give me some basic common sense on this topic.

And frankly, FWIW, I live my life based on the Bible and the Bible condemns drunkenness and anything that fogs the mind (excluding medicinal uses of course and I have no problem with pot being used medicinally). Pharmokeia and the occult go hand-in-hand.


104 posted on 09/16/2006 2:54:06 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: Paved Paradise; mugs99
Investigators at The Scripps Research Institute in California reported that THC inhibits the enzyme responsible for the aggregation of amyloid plaque — the primary marker for Alzheimer's disease — in a manner "considerably superior" to approved Alzheimer's drugs such as donepezil and tacrine. "Our results provide a mechanism whereby the THC molecule can directly impact Alzheimer's disease pathology," researchers concluded. "THC and its analogues may provide an improved therapeutic option for Alzheimer's disease by... simultaneously treating both the symptoms and the progression of the disease". [...] Want more?

No, unless you have some clinical and scientific data you can linke for me. If you want to PROVE something, I want hard information.

He's provided evidence, you've provided bupkus. There may be no convincing you ... but openminded lurkers know who has the better of the argument.

105 posted on 09/16/2006 3:05:46 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Know your rights

That's a quote he's provided. It's not a citation. Shut up.


106 posted on 09/16/2006 4:56:40 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: Know your rights

Oh, and re: open minded. You are obviously one of the peole who is so open minded, your brains have fallen out.


107 posted on 09/16/2006 4:57:16 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: Paved Paradise
No, unless you have some clinical and scientific data you can linke for me. If you want to PROVE something, I want hard information.

I gave you a quote from the hard data. You can read it yourself at the Scripps website:
Scripps Research THC

But, I can see by your reply that no amount of hard data will do for you:
"Pharmokeia and the occult go hand-in-hand".

You are unable to use God's gift of reason and care only about your quest to banish temptation.
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108 posted on 09/16/2006 5:01:45 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: All
Whatever happened to a plain old beer with a cigar after?
/Heh
109 posted on 09/16/2006 5:13:11 PM PDT by MaxMax (God Bless America)
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To: Know your rights

The Banish Temptation Crusaders can't be convinced. They are our version of the Taliban.


110 posted on 09/16/2006 5:43:00 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: MaxMax

Lol...
After what?


111 posted on 09/16/2006 5:44:55 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: mugs99

My uncle gave me my first beer and followed it with
a cigar, which made me throw it up.

Hard lesson learned. /Smile


112 posted on 09/16/2006 7:45:55 PM PDT by MaxMax (God Bless America)
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To: MaxMax

Lol!


113 posted on 09/16/2006 8:44:59 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: Paved Paradise
That's a quote he's provided. It's not a citation.

As I said: He's provided evidence, you've provided bupkus.

Shut up.

Standard Drug Warrior 'debating' technique.

114 posted on 09/17/2006 9:45:18 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Paved Paradise

I've provided proof from everywhere on various threads and it makes no difference, these drug users/activists are true believers no matter what.

Want to see how obsessed with drugs some are? Get and eye full and check out the number of drug posts some of the folks on these threads make.


115 posted on 09/17/2006 1:25:04 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: mugs99

"Marijuana has also been proven to be more effective than Ritalin to treat kids with ADD...with none of the dangerous side effects of Ritalin."

As a School Psychologist who works with children diagnosed with ADD/ADHD every day your above statement is an outrage and a lie. There are NO STUDIES of this kind anywhere in the world. This claim is spurious and dangerous.


116 posted on 09/17/2006 6:21:59 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Father of an American Soldier)
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To: SoldierDad
As a School Psychologist who works with children diagnosed with ADD/ADHD every day your above statement is an outrage and a lie. There are NO STUDIES of this kind anywhere in the world. This claim is spurious and dangerous.
ROFL!!!
You're a Ritalin pusher!
You may want to research Dr. Claudia Jensen, clinical instructor at the University of Southern California before calling someone an outrageous liar.

It was even on TV in april of 2004. Many doctors in California are now using medical marijuana to treat ADD and Oregon is now adding marijuana to the ADD treatment list. There have been many Ritalin deaths. Marijuana has never killed anyone.

Here's where it began in 2004:
Transcript: Dr. Claudia Jensen - Cannabis for ADD
Posted by CN Staff on April 23, 2004 at 13:34:28 PT
Countdown with Keith Olbermann
Source: MSNBC

COUNTDOWN is in the home stretch now. Your preview of our No. 1 story, the war on drugs meets the war to get your kids‘ attention. Just say no to ADD and give your kid pot? A doctor explains next.

OLBERMANN: They are a diagnoses at near epidemic proportions for kids in this country, ADD and ADHD, attention deficit disorder and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Fair or not, they are so common as to become part of the vernacular referring to our collective short attention span and inability to focus. Don‘t mind him, he‘s got ADD.

According to a member of the American Academy of Pediatrics, when our nation‘s doctors encounter a patient with one of these disorders, they go to right to one drug, methylphenidate. You may know it better as Ritalin. But there is a lesser known treatment, one that may in fact be more effective with fewer side effects, cannabis. You may know that better as weed, reefer, Mary Jane, marijuana.

Dr. Claudia Jensen is a clinical instructor at the University of Southern California and a practicing pediatrician who advocates the use of medicinal marijuana for the treatment of ADD and ADHD.

Dr. Jensen, good evening.

DR. CLAUDIA JENSEN, MEDICAL MARIJUANA ADVOCATE: Hi. Hello. How are you?

OLBERMANN: This is something you feel strongly about. You even testified before Congress a few weeks ago an the use of medical marijuana. What led you to the conclusion that this is a viable treatment for this disorder?

JENSEN: Well, that is what patients reported to me, so I listened to them. And I started paying attention and asking more questions when I did patient interviews. It seems to be rather consistent. They keep saying it over and over again.

OLBERMANN: There are parents who are no doubt thinking, as they watch this, without any kind of analysis or any kind of medical explanation or the expert testimony of a doctor who has listened to patients, that this is that it makes no senses to them, the idea that they are fighting on one front the influence, the pernicious influence of marijuana in a teenager‘s life, a kid‘s life, and yet you are here saying that this can be of enormous value in treating this rampant and life-constricting disease.

How do you respond to people who have the knee-jerk reaction, how could this possibly be any good?

JENSEN: Well, first of all, you‘re right. This is a potentially life-debilitating condition for a lot of children and adolescents. They become very angry.

And I think the answer to that question is that it needs to be evaluated by a physician before it‘s recommended to a child or an adolescent. And the truth is that one of the reasons that adolescents have an increasing use of cannabis, marijuana, in this country is because they‘ve been lied to. They‘ve been told that this is a very dangerous drug and that it has no benefit. And, unfortunately, that‘s not what they experience in the streets.

And I think it‘s more appropriate to bring it up out of the streets and into the doctor‘s offices, so that children and adolescents and parents can learn the truth, get some of the data, and look at this drug not with a reefer madness perspective, but more with a scientific and factual perspective.

OLBERMANN: How would you administer this to children, at what age? And I‘m presuming that the means of dispensing would be primarily those other than smoking it, am I correct?

JENSEN: That‘s what I primarily recommend, particularly with ADD and ADHD, because smoking marijuana has such a short duration. It only lasts an hour and a half to two hours. Plus, there‘s the stigma of the child smoking anything. But smoking pot is a difficult social issue to deal with.

When they ingest those cannabinoids or cannabis compounds, for example, marijuana, it lasts a lot longer. They can get all the way through the day with a single cannabis cookie or piece of toast with cannabis peanut butter in the morning before school. They don‘t have to get stoned. It‘s dose-related. But they do get the benefit of being able to focus and pay attention, not be impulsive, not be angry, be peaceful and relaxed and pay attention in school, which helps them get better grades, which is the important issue.

OLBERMANN: Anything would work.

Dr. Claudia Jensen from USC, many thanks for your time tonight.

JENSEN: Thank you. Thank you for your time.

OLBERMANN: Certainly

Want more?
.
117 posted on 09/17/2006 6:54:44 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: mugs99

You're a Ritalin pusher!
"You may want to research Dr. Claudia Jensen, clinical instructor at the University of Southern California before calling someone an outrageous liar.

First of all, I do not push Ritalin. Just the opposite. I look for other means of dealing with this issue, and try to disuade parents from using Ritalin as a first step. Second, there are NO STUDIES USING MARIJUANA TO TREAT MINORS FOR ADD/ADHD ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD - NONE. If this person you are so raptured by is doing any reseach she is using adults, not children. No University is going to sign off on using a controlled substance in reseach for any purpose on children. Your claim was that is was proven effective on children, and this is not true.

"Dr. Claudia Jensen is a clinical instructor at the University of Southern California and a practicing pediatrician who advocates the use of medicinal marijuana for the treatment of ADD and ADHD."

Advocating is not providing evidence of it's effectiveness. Think about how marijuana works, and the fact that the effects wear off after a period of time (just like prescribed medications for ADD/ADHD). Are you saying these kids are smoking marijuana at school? Where is this happening? In order to conduct research into how something affects the behaviors of ADD/ADHD kids you'd need to employ the "drug" in the school setting. Otherwise, you are not testing the effects on school performance, which is where ADD/ADHD provides the biggest negative impact on children. You also need control groups. Just because some person makes a claim on MSNBC does not make the claim factual. You shouldn't believe everything you see on T.V., especially MSNBC.

"It was even on TV in april of 2004. Many doctors in California are now using medical marijuana to treat ADD and Oregon is now adding marijuana to the ADD treatment list. There have been many Ritalin deaths. Marijuana has never killed anyone."

No where in California is there any children using marijuana for the treatment of ADHD/ADD. This is just not happening. Ritalin has never directly killed anyone. Ritalin does not posses enough amphetamine to produce death. All the deaths that have been attributed to Ritalin were by suicide, and Ritalin was only one drug those students were taking. You should do a better job of researching your facts. Don't take on an issue with someone who works in that field unless you bring ammunition to the arguement. Don't believe every stupid thing you see/hear on MSNBC, especially from OLBERMANN.


118 posted on 09/17/2006 7:22:34 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Father of an American Soldier)
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To: SoldierDad
First of all, I do not push Ritalin. Just the opposite. I look for other means of dealing with this issue
Well I'm certainly happy to hear that. My respect for your opinion has increased.

NO STUDIES USING MARIJUANA TO TREAT MINORS FOR ADD/ADHD ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD - NONE...No University is going to sign off on using a controlled substance in reseach for any purpose on children
Lol!
You shout about the lack of university study, yet you acknowledge the reason that there are no university studies?
We do have studies. We have the "studies" in the form of reports by doctors who are using marijuana to treat ADD/ADHD.

Your claim was that is was proven effective on children, and this is not true
You should follow your own advise about doing research before you post. You didn't bother to check out Dr. Jensen and read about her patients...like the one diagnosed as suffering from ADHD at age thirteen and had been prescribed every drug available up to age 15 with no improvement. He couldn't even attend school. She treated him with cannabis in food and candy form and he improved to the point where he now regularly attends school.

Are you saying these kids are smoking marijuana at school?
Of course not and that shows that you didn't bother to read the transcript I posted or to check out the reference I cited for yourself. The cannabis is usually in peanut butter spread on a slice of toast before the child leaves for school.

No where in California is there any children using marijuana for the treatment of ADHD/ADD.
I just cited the example of one of her patients above. She is only one doctor of many in California. I find it interesting that you claim to work in this field, yet you are unaware of the Cannabis MD Reports in California. How can that be?

Ritalin has never directly killed anyone. Ritalin does not posses enough amphetamine to produce death. All the deaths that have been attributed to Ritalin were by suicide
Again, your knowledge for someone who claims to work in this field is sorely lacking.
There have been at least 19 cases of sudden death in children taking Methylphenidate (Ritalin) in 2005...They did not commit suicide. They died from heart attacks caused by Methylphenidate (Ritalin). Between 1990 and 2000 there were 186 deaths from Methylphenidate (Ritalin) reported to the FDA MedWatch program...They did not commit suicide. They died of heart attacks caused by Methylphenidate (Ritalin).

Don't take on an issue with someone who works in that field unless you bring ammunition to the arguement
I believe my ammo is doing just fine. So far all you've done is shoot blanks.

I'll finish with with a quote from a guy who really does work in that field you claim...Jay R. Cavanaugh, Ph.D.
"Cannabis can provide unique help with some childhood disorders including cancer but also attention deficit disorder and autism. These latter disorders are currently treated with powerful stimulants such as amphetamine in the first case and with brain numbing toxic preparations such as Haldol in the case of autism. Parents of autistic children and children with severe ADHD often are desperate for help with seemingly insurmountable problems. Behavioral therapies while very helpful often fail to relieve the aggressive, indeed violent, behavior and lack of impulse control sometimes associated with these disorders.

Out of sheer desperation, a number of parents have begun trying adjunctive therapy with cannabis for their children. Most activists within the medical cannabis community are frightened by this development for the very real reason that they believe the use of cannabis with children will only increase the efforts of law enforcement to crush the movement. Nothing could be further from the truth. Some childhood behavioral brain disorders are so resistant to traditional treatment and that treatment is often so toxic that virtually any new method that provides real relief is going to result in a groundswell of support for medical cannabis. This is already happening in the autism community.

Imagine a child being given half a dozen psychotropic drugs from Prozac to Haldol to Valium and who continues to break down doors and assault others seemingly without provocation who now responds to therapy with medical cannabis. Imagine the parents of such children contemplating a lock up for their beloved child who now sees that child calm and functional. Loving parents will demand that cannabis be provided to the arsenal their pediatricians and pediatric neurologists already have".
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119 posted on 09/17/2006 10:00:13 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: Know your rights; Paved Paradise; mugs99
The study mentions the effect of THC on Alzheimer's, not the effect of marijuana on Alzheimer's.

Does smoking marijuana provide enough THC to the system to have a similar effect on Alzheimer's? If not, or if you don't know, maybe you shouldn't be too anxious to flout your ignorance of this topic.

120 posted on 09/19/2006 6:26:32 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: freepatriot32

"Do your homework! Stay in drugs! Don't do school!"

121 posted on 09/19/2006 6:33:31 AM PDT by Sloth ('It Takes A Village' is problematic when you're raising your child in Sodom.)
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To: robertpaulsen
If not, or if you don't know, maybe you shouldn't be too anxious to flout your ignorance of this topic
This isn't the only study. It's just one I posted. This study was funded because doctors in California are reporting improvement in patients treated with medical marijuana. They are trying to determine why.

Same as the Multiple Sclerosis study. NMSS is funding the study to determine the effectiveness of marijuana with a new system that objectively measures spasticity. NMSS believes this study is the first marijuana MS study to meet rigorous scientific standards for data.
NMSS funded this study because of reports from doctors and patients on the benefits of medical marijuana in the treatment of Multiple Sclerosis.

These studies weren't possible (they were illegal) before the Compassionate Use Act was passed in California. Many more scientific studies of marijuana are underway in California.
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122 posted on 09/19/2006 8:26:17 AM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: freepatriot32

Good thing he did the homework BEFORE the pot. Hope mom had lots of Cheetos and stuff for after too (hehe). Unreal.


123 posted on 09/19/2006 9:19:26 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: YouPosting2Me

I never heard that one - ba'dump, indeed.


124 posted on 09/19/2006 9:20:00 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: freepatriot32

What happens if he makes the honor roll?

Is she going to cut up some lines for him?


125 posted on 09/19/2006 9:21:05 AM PDT by word_warrior_bob
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To: Know your rights

Well, as I said earlier, nobody has provided any scientific evidence.

Interestingly enough, the societies that engaged in lots of pot smoking were always very primitive, while other cultures that did not were busy developing actual ideas into real things.

Never pay attention to history, common sense or logic, I always say.


126 posted on 09/19/2006 9:24:11 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: A CA Guy

I know. I know. They are rather annoying, but one good thing is that they are spending so much of their energy on this garbage, it probably keeps them off the streets and so we are a little safer, eh?


127 posted on 09/19/2006 9:25:13 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: mugs99

I will check it out later, Mugs, just to keep myself informed, but I've read enough data to be pretty firmly grounded in my beliefs on this issue and I think there is far more evidence favoring my stance than yours. The biggest difference, which you must admit, is that I have no bias to this whatsoever, while you and others, seem to have a "wishful thinking" mindset if you will.


128 posted on 09/19/2006 9:32:25 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: Paved Paradise
The biggest difference, which you must admit, is that I have no bias to this whatsoever, while you and others, seem to have a "wishful thinking" mindset if you will.
ROFL!
Your bias is glowing like a neon sign!
You have posted no hard evidence. I, and those others, have.
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129 posted on 09/19/2006 10:01:44 AM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: mugs99

Glad you're laughing. I don't know what bias you think is "glowing like neon." I'm all for drugs that have purposes and I think marijuana does have a useful medicinal use and have never had a problem with it being prescribed.

You probably would like to see us revert back to the days where one could purchase tincture of heroin at the chemist's.


130 posted on 09/19/2006 10:32:37 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: mugs99
"NMSS believes this study is the first marijuana MS study"

Marijuana or THC? Also, I thought Sativex® was already released.

131 posted on 09/19/2006 11:07:42 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Paved Paradise
You probably would like to see us revert back to the days where one could purchase tincture of heroin at the chemist's.

We had less heroin abuse in those days than we do now.

"The stated goals of current U.S.drug policy -- reducing crime, drug addiction, and juvenile drug use -- have not been achieved, even after nearly four decades of a policy of "war on drugs". This policy, fueled by over a trillion of our tax dollars has had little or no effect on the levels of drug addiction among our fellow citizens, but has instead resulted in a tremendous increase in crime and in the numbers of Americans in our prisons and jails. With 4.6% of the world's population, America today has 22.5% of the worlds prisoners. But, after all that time, after all the destroyed lives and after all the wasted resources, prohibited drugs today are cheaper, stronger, and easier to get than they were thirty-five years ago at the beginning of the so-called "war on drugs"...Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
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132 posted on 09/19/2006 11:10:40 AM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: msnimje

You are clearly speaking about a subject of which you know nothing. Otherwise known as ignorance.


133 posted on 09/19/2006 11:11:03 AM PDT by Toby06 (Hydrogen is not a fuel source. Hydrogen is an energy storage method, like a battery.)
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To: robertpaulsen
Marijuana or THC?
That is what the studies are trying to determine. Doctors are treating MS with medical marijuana. Will synthetic THC work as well? So far, research suggests that synthetic THC should work as well or even better than marijuana. For some reason, as yet undetermined, synthetic THC is less effective than marijuana for most patients. Cannabis research is still new. It began in earnest in 2000. I'm sure they will solve the problem and will more than likely develop a cannabis derived medicine that works even better than marijuana. But, medical marijuana is available now and is helping patients who have no other option.

Also, I thought Sativex® was already released.
Sativex is legal in Canada and the UK. Sativex is considered marijuana by the DEA and it is illegal under federal law. Importing Sativex from Canada is drug smuggling.
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134 posted on 09/19/2006 11:37:29 AM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: mugs99

You are right about that. In part, there was less abuse for three reasons (many others but these two are simple):
1. Less people/population. U.S. population just went to 300,000,000. It's up so significantly that even I can't help but notice. As in any good statistical comparison, one must take this into consideration - more people will always been more of any particular abberrant behavior.
2. Less disposable income back then - people didn't have nearly the amount of recreational cash that they do now, even though the Dems keep trying to say how bad-off we are now.
3. Morality was inculcated a lot more - while there will always be a criminal element and we all know about Al Capone, the great bootlegging criminals, and on and on, the fact is people back then were probably not as likely to just go start doing recreational drugs.

P.S. Don't start using the bit about the alcoholic women who'd go to those travelin' men selling all the "aids" since they did that out of ignorance, thinking it was medicine or herbal or good. They weren't taking a DRUG because they wanted some supernatural feelings, or feelings of euphoria.

P.S.S. In spite of our disagreements, you seem like a very nice person, so I respect you for that.


135 posted on 09/19/2006 4:37:34 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: Paved Paradise
P.S.S. In spite of our disagreements, you seem like a very nice person, so I respect you for that
So do you and I too respect you. I also realize that you're the type who will get around to checking out my comments and that will cause you to rethink your position.

It will eventually come to the point where we'll all have to find a way to solve this problem and that's the discussion I'm looking forward to!
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136 posted on 09/19/2006 5:55:32 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: mugs99

I will have to get back to you on the stuff you want me to check out, but I have a question for you in the meantime.

Is your position that you want drugs legalized (and do you want all drugs legalized or just pot?) because you think it's a waste of time/money since the drug war has been unsuccessful?

Would appreciate your comments.

Also, are you familiar with the kindling theory in mental illnesses?


137 posted on 09/20/2006 7:42:02 AM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: Paved Paradise
I will have to get back to you on the stuff you want me to check out
It's not that I want you to check it out...I just know that you will, and you don't have to get back to me on it.

Is your position that you want drugs legalized (and do you want all drugs legalized or just pot?) because you think it's a waste of time/money since the drug war has been unsuccessful?

It's my position that the drug war has increased drug abuse, violent crime and has gutted the Constitution. The money would be better spent on treatment and education.
I think pot is a no brainer...it should be legal. I think we need to find a better way of controlling hard drug abuse but I honestly don't have an answer to that one. The Swiss model is interesting and seems to be working.

Also, are you familiar with the kindling theory in mental illnesses?
Yes, it's popped up in debates here on FR. The Kindling model is still being hotly debated among researchers. Recent research published in The Journal of Abnormal Psychology pretty well shoots it down but I think it holds water in many cases.
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138 posted on 09/20/2006 9:51:20 AM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: mugs99

Here, read this and educate yourself. I've found no research or other studies in which this drug is being used to treat ADD/ADHD, despite your claims.

RESEARCH FINDINGS ON THE IMPACT OF MARIJUANA


Cannabis Sativa


Molecule of the active ingredient
in Marijuana - Tetrahydrocannabinol



Warning to readers of this article:
This article contains information which may upset readers who are either physically or psychologically addicted to marijuana (with or without acknowledging that they are in fact dependant) as well as those who are pro marijuana legalisation.

"No matter what we'd like to believe, there is no such thing as a safe drug. All drugs are poisons and are toxic to some degree. Their anticipated effect is to interfere with or inhibit the body's natural responses or to mask or diminish the symptoms of illness." (John Archer, Bad Medicine, 1995. Simon & Schuster, East Roseville, NSW; ISBN 031805089).

The above statement is true for any drug, whether it be in the form of legally prescribed medications, over-the-counter medications or drugs found in nature.

There has been considerable debate about the medicinal use of marijuana (analgesic, anti inflammatory, hypnotic, sedative, cataleptic and hallucinogenic), it remains to be seen which of the active ingredients in marijuana has the potential to benefit mankind.

This article needs to be read in the context of an ADHD brain - one that is already dysfunctional to start with as evidenced by mounting QEEG, SPECT and functional MRI data.

Contrary to popular belief, marijuana is not harmless and is in fact addictive. According to a study conducted by Dr. Kadden (1997) from the University of Conneticut Health Centre, marijuana addiction is both psychological and physiological. People often fail to notice the effects of cannabis addiction because it's consequences are not as acute or striking as with cocaine or alcohol. It is instead insidious- "it gets into your lifestyle and then you can't get it out" is how some have described it.

Many participants in the three-year study expressed feelings that they could not cope or even function adequately without marijuana, and that their addiction interfered with leading a normal life. Further, they felt that they needed treatment for their addiction.

The following is a brief summary of findings from similar research by pharmacist and neuropsychologist, John Anderson presented at a seminar to the Adult ADD support group in Sydney in 1997. John Anderson died in 2002 and was a strong advocate against the legalisation of marijuana in Australia for the following reasons:

1. Although THC is the active ingredient that causes the high, there are 61 other agents in marijuana (The Psychopharmocology of Herbal Medicine- Spinella 2001 MIT Press). These other constituents vary widely depending on climate, cultivar, soil etc. Since it is not a pure substance, individual reactions vary considerably.

2. CBD & CNN are two of the cannaboids found in marijuana (which according to Anderson) research has demonstrated affects chromosomal structure. In males, it results in spermatogenesis and in women, actively affects the shape of the ovum. The gene that is affected is the same gene implicated in ADHD - on the short arm of chromosome 6.

3. Marijuana alters testosterone levels and males who have ADD tend to have mood swings exacerbated by continued use.

4. Marijuana is fat soluble, and the brain and gonads are the major fatty tissues in the body.

5. Smoking one joint a day, three times a week, for six months, results in changes in brain physiology that can be detected three to five years later.

6. Since marijuana decreases the amount of T-cells in the blood, the immune system is weakened.

7. Marijuana contains 50-70% more carcinogens than tobacco and there is a higher incidence of jaw, throat and tongue cancer among marijuana users.

8. The cardio-vascular system is also adversely affected ' since marijuana deprives the brain of -oxygen. When the blood flow to the brain is decreased by 4% significant problems in terms of brain function result: in dementia patients blood flow is decreased by 4%, ADHD 8-12%, schizophrenia 12-15%, marijuana users 10-15%.

9. Long term users may develop drug induced psychosis (similar to schizophrenia with paranoia and delusions). One in ten of those with drug psychosis will commit suicide unless treated in the first two years (usually poly drug users). Other than those who develop drug induced psychosis and cancer, research demonstrates that all other effects are fully reversible with total abstinence.

10. The adult ADHD brain is primarily characterised by a dopamine and sometimes a serotonin dysfunction. If an ADD adult smokes marijuana, the dopamine receptors are filled with THC instead of dopamine. This exacerbates the problem as it causes an imbalance in other neurotransmitters. There is little point in using medication for ADHD if marijuana smoking continues as the medication becomes ineffective unless massive doses are taken. Increasingly, stronger drugs are required and the progression from marijuana to speed to heroin is likely.

11. 30-40% of substance abusers (marijuana, heroin, methadone) have ADD. There are 18,000 people on methadone. If those with ADD are treated more appropriately, then maybe they can eventually get off methadone, thus actively treating the illness, not the symptoms. (Source: Anderson 1997)

Recent research by Dr Rachel Wilson, University of California at San Francisco, discovered that the main ingredient in cannabis - delta 9- trans-tetrahydrocannabinol- or THC- is very similar in shape to endocannabinoids (naturally occurring cannabinoids in the body), which are involved in many body and brain functions. Cannabinoid receptors are found liberally throughout the body and brain. This is why marijuana smokers report a diverse collection of sensations. Endocannabinoids play an important role in the hippocampus, a part of the brain involved in learning and memory. It is thought that these molecules help lay down new memories by strengthening connections between nerve cells. However, when the brain is flooded with cannabinoids through marijuana use, forgetfulness results. They also appear to tone down the production of certain neurotransmitters, acting like the brakes of a car when the system is racing too fast. Marijuana has also been implicated in the dopaminergic system and it is thought that through a complex chain of events, revs up the dopamine system. One study showed a complex interplay existed between cannabinoids and leptin, a hormone that produces satiety and is probably the reason why marijuana users get the "munchies". (The Brain in the News - Jan,31,2002. Vol. 9, No. 2)

A recent article in the New York Times (Jan 29, 2002) states that for 10-14 percent of the population, marijuana is highly addictive and that the withdrawal symptoms are very similar to what cigarette smokers experience when they quit. These include craving, decreased appetite, sleep difficulty, weight loss, aggression, irritability, restlessness and strange dreams. Could it be that those who have a genetic predisposition to marijuana addiction are the same population of individuals with undiagnosed and untreated ADHD? Is this a way for them to self medicate?

THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SUBSTANCE ABUSE
(PRIMARILY MARIJUANA) AND ADHD

1. 40% of children with ADHD are predisposed to developing substance abuse during adolescence/adulthood.
2. Of the ADHD population that are poly-substance users, 61% smoke marijuana.
3. Many of the behavioural changes in marijuana users are the same as those of ADHD, hence it is often difficult for clinicians to differentiate between ADHD and marijuana use.
4. Specific behavioural changes in cannabis users include:

significant decrease in academic ability

increased depression

increased anxiety

increased impulsivity

respiratory infections increase significantly (colds, sniffles)

short term memory problems increase (forgetfulness, difficulty learning new information)

a-motivational syndrome (lack of interest/enthusiasm in things previously enjoyed)

temporal distortions

reaction time slows

changes in appetite

(Source: Anderson 1997)

Tends to put a crimp in your claim, doesn't it!


139 posted on 09/20/2006 9:28:23 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Father of an American Soldier)
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To: mugs99

I located this on the web. Is this the "scientific research" you are so excited about? Read at the bottom where the article states this is all based on ancedotal information (in other words, claims made by people where no documentation of factual date exists). You need to go back to school if you think this provides evidence that Marijuana works to help those with ADHD. Hell, cafeine studies have demonstrated a higher level of verifiable statistics with respect to ADHD than this bunk.

5-4-2004 - MARIJUANA Effective for ADD/ADHD?

9:11 AM GMT

A woman doctor in Ventura County believes it is. Of course there's intense opposition to her findings. Ever since Reefer Madness, the world has viewed marijuana as a dangerous drug. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm so glad I received an email from a friend in California this morning about her daughter who has always been thought of as having ADHD (attention deficit hyper disorder). Rachel fought the school over giving Cindy the standard dangerous drugs to control her, but was dismayed at her grades and the trouble she was always in. To her shock, Cindy, now in Junior High, just got an excellent report card.

Weeks before grades came out, Rachel had written that she'd discovered Cindy smoked pot and she was beyond distraught, buying into the tried and tired bit that it's a gateway drug, leading to the hard stuff. I wrote back and told her that was total nonsense, that kids experiment at Cindy's age and not to come down hard on her, as it could make things worse. She was worried about her education and that she was headed down the wrong path and revealed that well-meaning friends and family were giving her too much advice, but it all boiled down to putting Cindy on a very short leash.

The good grades turned Rachel's head around from thinking that pot had probably turned Cindy's brain into mush and she'd flunk. What bunk! She gave me a URL to an article she'd discovered in the local paper and asked me to read it and tell her what I thought. I actually cheered upon reading it. Well, there were some boo's, too, aimed at the pathetically ill-informed debunkers.

Put that pre-judgement away and read this, please. Headlined: "Ventura physician promotes marijuana to treat attention disorders." from the Ventura County Star. I'm surprised they printed it and happy they did.

"Dr. Claudia Jensen has seen marijuana help lawyers focus in court, executives excel and adolescents get good grades.

The drug often associated with slackers can do more than Ritalin and other stimulants to motivate millions of Americans with attention disorders, says Jensen, a physician at the Center for Integrated Health in Ventura.

"It can calm you down; Ritalin amps you up," Jensen said. "Cannabis can help you sleep; Ritalin gives you insomnia. Cannabis gives you an appetite; Ritalin makes you anorexic."

Jensen is one of a handful of California doctors invoking state law to approve marijuana, medically known as cannabis sativa, for adults and adolescents who have difficulty with routine daily tasks because they have attention-deficit disorder or attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder. On Thursday, Jensen will have five minutes to convince a congressional subcommittee in Washington, D.C., that the drug works."

I have to say this article has me pumped. There's been huge focus on medicinal marijuana for everything from AIDS,chronic pain to glaucoma and particularly as the substance of choice to control nausea and vomiting in chemotherapy patients. Look at San Francisco and Northern California and the strides made there to make it legal for those in need of non-chemical relief. I've never read of it being used on kids with these disorders, but it sure makes sense to me.

Back to the article, check out what one of Jensen's fellow doctors has to say. What century or better, what planet is this guy on? It's this kind of thinking that stunts progress and in turn, messes up a lot of kids whose parents take his advice.

"When someone is high on marijuana, they are not able to process properly, they have more problems with their focus and attention, and it is well known that marijuana causes short-term memory problems," said Dr. Loren Label, head of the ADD Clinic in Thousand Oaks.

Is that why Cindy got a 3.0 grade average? She's not hyped up on behaviour-controlling drugs, she smokes pot and is a top student. Doesn't that say something? Her mom didn't know she was smoking before school because Cindy knew she'd wig big time and would never understand how it helps her focus. It's a sad fact that most parents are of the belief that their pot-smoking kid is going to wind up dead in an alley with a needle that contained heroin in their arm. Wake up! That's not the case, dammit, and of course, there are kids as well as adults who shouldn't smoke the wild weed, as not all chemical make-up's are the same, but for those that it helps, where's the fucking problem?

I point a finger at the haha War On Drugs and it's complete failure. I shake one at educators who order their students to take dangerous chemicals just so they won't have to be dealt with and of course the money they receive. Pot could be a life-saver for overly hyper kids who won't take the pills. Finally, an alternative, but a very unpopular one it is, in spite of testimony from so many as to how it's benefited their lives, and the cry is always, "they're kids!!" I agree, this is a radical departure from standard treatment, but a good radical approach to organic vs chemical. Mydog, they give them something similiar to cocaine and balk at the benign marijuana?

Jensen and the others aren't alone -- they have back-up in Oregon. From hevanet, no date but it must be fairly recent. Give this puppy a read, but I must warn that it's highly technical and easy to scan through, but it gets into the different kinds of ADD and how little is known about the variants. Headline:

"Marijuana and ADD
Therapeutic uses of Medical Marijuana in the treatment of Attention Deficit Disorder"

"It was mentioned in the Portland newspaper that the Oregon Health Division is considering allowing medical marijuana to be used to treat Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) under the Oregon Medical Marijuana Act. At first glance it might seem counter-intuitive to use a medication that has a public perception of decreasing attention to treat a condition whose primary symptom is a deficit of attention. But just as taking stimulants often calms those with hyperactivity, medical marijuana improves the ability to concentrate in some types of ADD." Oh yeah, this is bigger than first thought. Wow, this next part hits home!

The particular type of ADD under consideration for treatment with medical marijuana might better be termed "Racing Brain Syndrome" (RBS). A useful analogy for this mental condition is that of a centrifugal pump that is being over-driven. As the pump speed increases, cavitation sets in and the pump's output decreases. The faster the pump is driven the greater the cavitation until a point is reached where large amounts of energy are being input but nothing is being output. Without medication there is a sensation that thoughts flash through the brain too fast to "think" them. Medical marijuana slows the brain down sufficiently to achieve impressive improvements in functionality."

Listen to what a retired Harvard Medical School psychiatrist and author of 2 books on medicinal marijuana has to say about ADHD and marijuana in the question and answer section of his site, rxmarihuana.

"Dear Dr, Grinspoon:

Hilary Black at the Compassion Club in Vancouver B.C. Canada gave me your name. I am a Master's student who is conducting a qualitative inquiry on the relationship between ADHD and the use of marijuana. I have had a very difficult time finding any literature on this specific topic. It would appear that there is very little evidence on what marijuana does for these folks. My research is almost completed and the stories from the five participants are great. It is clear that cannabis offers a sense of calm and "normalcy". But my lit review is still lacking and I was hoping that you could offer me some suggestions. Has no one else ever published an inquiry on the effects of marijuana on ADHD? Has no one else ever listened to their stories?

I look forward to your response.

Thank you very much.

Cheers,
Debbie Verkerk

Dear Ms. Verkerk,

It was more than a decade ago that I first had the experience of observing a high school student with ADHD treat this disorder much more successfully with cannabis than with his doctor-prescribed Ritalin. His mother (now deceased), a vice president of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who had asked me to see him for evaluation, was also persuaded that he did much better while using cannabis than he ever did with Ritalin. Since that time I have seen a number of patients, both young people and adults, who have had similar experiences. I have also heard from many others; still I have seen no reference to this possibility in the scientific or medical literature. I think that we are now in the same situation we were with Tourette's syndrome about a decade ago; a number of anecdotal reports but nothing in the medical literature. Today you can find citations in the literature on cannabis as a treatment for Tourette's. The bottom line is that this use of cannabis for the treatment of ADHD is still in the clinical observation or anecdotal stage, and it may be impossible to find the citations you seek.

With best wishes for success with your paper,

Lester Grinspoon MD"

There you have it, it's still being studied, not much information is available, but I can't help but think if a wise parent had to choose between legal speed (which is what Ritalin and the others are) and marijuana, they'd choose the latter. I know I would. I wish Dr. Claudia Jensen the best of luck when she visits DC. I realize this is most controversial and is liable to evoke some pretty strong criticism, but all I want is for people to think about it and the lesser of evils. I thank Rachel for bringing this to my attention. I wrote, "Legally Drugging the Kids" eight months ago and it's accessed daily. What does that tell you?

"Marijuana is the safest therapeutically active substance known to man... safer than many foods we commonly consume."
-- DEA Judge Francis L. Young


Brenda Stardom
Portugal


140 posted on 09/20/2006 9:38:27 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud Father of an American Soldier)
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To: SoldierDad
Here, read this and educate yourself.
ROTFLMAO!!!
I posted current scientific research. You replied with a quote from a book written by Jon Archer in 1995, an excerpt from a "study" conducted by Dr. Kadden in 1997, a report by John Anderson, the famous Austrailian anti pot crusader, presented at a seminar to the Adult ADD support group in Sydney in 1997 and an article from the New York Times of Jan 29, 2002!

You claim to be a professional who works with ADD/ADHD kids on a daily basis...and this is the best you can come up with???

Time to update your ammo soldier!
.
141 posted on 09/20/2006 10:00:27 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: SoldierDad
I located this on the web. Is this the "scientific research" you are so excited about?
No, it's not. I cited my references. Why do you need to Google the web for this crap when a professional like you has access to current literature and research?

You said: "As a School Psychologist who works with children diagnosed with ADD/ADHD every day".
I even gave you a source where you could get current info...a source that is used by medical doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists in California...and you have to Google the web trying to find something, anything, to refute the references I cited???
.
142 posted on 09/20/2006 10:17:12 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: robertpaulsen; Paved Paradise; mugs99
Does smoking marijuana provide enough THC to the system to have a similar effect on Alzheimer's?

Obviously that depends on how much one smokes.

maybe you shouldn't be too anxious to flout your ignorance of this topic.

The self-referential irony is priceless.

143 posted on 09/23/2006 7:40:54 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Paved Paradise
As I said: He's provided evidence, you've provided bupkus.

Well, as I said earlier, nobody has provided any scientific evidence.

My statement remains correct.

Interestingly enough, the societies that engaged in lots of pot smoking were always very primitive,

Which societies were those? Have there been enough of them to form a statistically valid conclusion? And did they differ in no other relevant way from the other cultures you mention?

What you've posted is only the sketchiest foreshadowing of an actual argument.

while other cultures that did not were busy developing actual ideas into real things.

While drinking alcohol. Should we conclude that more alcohol use leads to more "developing actual ideas into real things" and encourage, or mandate, alcohol use?

144 posted on 09/23/2006 7:46:13 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Know your rights
"Obviously that depends on how much one smokes."

So you're stating for a fact that one can smoke enough marijuana to ingest the amount of THC necessary to have an effect on Alzheimer's?

145 posted on 09/23/2006 8:06:34 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Know your rights
The self-referential irony is priceless.
Lol!
146 posted on 09/23/2006 8:08:39 AM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: mugs99
Big difference between not knowing and asking a question and not knowing and stating a fact.

MrLeRoy is not smart enough to recognize this, but I thought you might be.

147 posted on 09/23/2006 8:55:22 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen
So you're stating for a fact that one can smoke enough marijuana to ingest the amount of THC necessary to have an effect on Alzheimer's?

No. Are you stating for a fact that one can't? If not, what's your point?

148 posted on 09/23/2006 9:28:17 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Know your rights

Then stop coming to the defense of those who say marijuana has an effect on Alzheimer's. You don't know that.


149 posted on 09/23/2006 9:43:05 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen; mugs99
mugs99 overstated his case in saying, "Medical marijuana supporters have been claiming since 1996 that marijuana helps stop alzheimers disease. That claim has now been proven by scientists." He would have been 100% correct in saying "has been given significant support by scientists."
150 posted on 09/23/2006 9:46:15 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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