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Pope Invites Muslims to Dialogue, Slams "Holy Wars"(Hooray for the Pope!)
Reuters News Service ^ | Sep 12, 2006 | Philip Pullella and Madeline Chambers

Posted on 09/12/2006 11:52:19 AM PDT by kellynla

REGENSBURG, Germany (Reuters) - Pope Benedict invited Muslims on Tuesday to join a dialogue of cultures based on the premise that the concept of an Islamic "holy war" is unreasonable and against God's nature.

In a major lecture at Regensburg University, where he taught theology between 1969 to 1977, Benedict said Christianity is tightly linked to reason and contrasted this view with those who believe in spreading their faith by the sword.

The 79-year-old Pontiff avoided making a direct criticism of Islam, packaging his comments in a highly complex academic lecture with references ranging from ancient Jewish and Greek thinking to Protestant theology and modern atheism.

In his lecture, the Pope quoted, among others, the 14th century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologos who wrote that Mohammad had brought things "only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

The Pope, who used the terms "jihad" and "holy war" in his lecture, added in his own words: "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".

Benedict several times quoted Emperor Manuel's argument that spreading the faith through violence is unreasonable and that acting without reason -- "logos" in the original Greek -- was against God's nature.

At the end of his lecture, the Pope again quoted Manuel and said: "It is to this great 'logos', to this breadth of reason, that we invite our partners in the dialogue of cultures."

(Excerpt) Read more at today.reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: benedictxvi; catholic; catholicism; germany; iran; iraq; islam; israel; jihad; moralabsolutes; muslims; pope; terrorism; terrorists; wot
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1 posted on 09/12/2006 11:52:20 AM PDT by kellynla
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To: NYer

ping


2 posted on 09/12/2006 11:52:40 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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In his lecture, the Pope quoted, among others, the 14th century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologos who wrote that Mohammad had brought things "only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

The Pope, who used the terms "jihad" and "holy war" in his lecture, added in his own words: "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".

3 posted on 09/12/2006 11:55:07 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla; rrrod
the Pope quoted ... 14th century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologos who wrote that Mohammad had brought things "only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
4 posted on 09/12/2006 11:55:21 AM PDT by JohnnyZ ("I respect and will protect a woman's right to choose" -- Mitt Romney, April 2002)
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To: kellynla; Salvation

Pope Benedict is THE man PING


5 posted on 09/12/2006 11:55:21 AM PDT by pissant
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To: kellynla

Yes. It is his time and place to confront them directly and to correct publically their evil misdirection. May he continue to speak out against their evil works and machinations.


6 posted on 09/12/2006 11:56:33 AM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: kellynla

Only way for the Religion of Peace to react to this insult: go out and kill a bunch of people. Any people. Even they're own people. It doesn't matter. If you're Muslim, and somebody criticizes you in any way, you have to go out and murder somebody. That's why we call it the Religion of Peace.


7 posted on 09/12/2006 11:56:36 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: kellynla

Dear Pope, Convert to Islam or we will chop off your head and any Muslim that agrees with you.??? VTY.... OBL


8 posted on 09/12/2006 11:58:15 AM PDT by Bringbackthedraft ( The Demoncratic Party Battle Flag is Pure White! They stole it from the French..)
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To: kellynla
OK, now it's up to 'them'.

I would like to see the Pope now challenge the leaders and clerics of Islam to put out a 'fatwah'--condemning to hell, any maniac that kills innocent people in the name of Islam.

9 posted on 09/12/2006 11:58:37 AM PDT by stockstrader
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To: kellynla

Okay then! This is a good thing!


10 posted on 09/12/2006 12:00:42 PM PDT by Hound of the Baskervilles (A)
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To: kellynla

Good cannot have a productive dialogue with evil.


11 posted on 09/12/2006 12:02:45 PM PDT by RexBeach (Will Rogers Never Met Bill Clinton.)
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To: kellynla

bttt


12 posted on 09/12/2006 12:03:05 PM PDT by Chi-townChief
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To: kellynla

I hope he keeps this up and makes himself very visible and active in this regard for a very long time to come. It is an excellent approach.


13 posted on 09/12/2006 12:03:55 PM PDT by Hound of the Baskervilles (A)
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To: kellynla

God bless Pope Benedict!


14 posted on 09/12/2006 12:11:50 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: samtheman

15 posted on 09/12/2006 12:12:37 PM PDT by Vasilli22 (http://www.richardfest.blogspot.com/)
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To: kellynla

Faith dialogue is impossible with Islam. I would love to see Pope Benedict point out that Christ taught us to call God our Father. In Islam, this is blasphemy. Allah is a slave master to whom you are to submit.

Want to end a faith dialogue real quick? Just begin saying the "Our Father" and it will be over. We have no common faith ground and we are not worshipping the same God.


16 posted on 09/12/2006 12:13:19 PM PDT by pgyanke (Christ embraces sinners; liberals embrace the sin.)
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To: stockstrader

that's the sign we will know when it is over...


17 posted on 09/12/2006 12:13:21 PM PDT by epluribus_2
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To: kellynla

Ping = later


18 posted on 09/12/2006 12:14:30 PM PDT by Wings-n-Wind (All of the answers remain available; Wisdom is gained by asking the right questions!)
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To: JohnnyZ
This is major! I just heard Fr. Morris talk about this on FNC. I'm sure the outrage from Muslims will be unbelievable and there will be a fatwah.
19 posted on 09/12/2006 12:15:14 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: Hound of the Baskervilles

The last pope challenged the moral roots of communism and it crumbled easily. This guy might be able to do that to the IslamoFascists if he gets the air time. If people think - I.F. evaporates like a spectre in the sunlight.


20 posted on 09/12/2006 12:15:44 PM PDT by epluribus_2
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To: kellynla
"Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".

Half right? Considering the sin nature we are born into vioence seems quite compatible with the flesh; maybe the Pope wasn't in 'the zone' when he said this.
21 posted on 09/12/2006 12:16:15 PM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: StJacques
At his university lecture, Benedict, a leading theologian who has always drawn clear lines between Roman Catholicism and other faiths, also appeared to criticize Protestant churches and contemporary Third World theologians for not stressing the link between faith and reason clearly enough.

What does the Pope mean by the above? Protestant churches in any event cover the gamut.

22 posted on 09/12/2006 12:20:51 PM PDT by Torie
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To: kellynla

Good for him. He should get tougher.


23 posted on 09/12/2006 12:22:59 PM PDT by tkathy (Einstein: Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.)
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To: AD from SpringBay
Oh, and you are more knowledgeable on the nature of the soul and the nature of God than the Pope?
yeaaaaa...right!

Better to keep your opinions to yourself and let people think you a fool than to post them and remove all doubt.
24 posted on 09/12/2006 12:25:16 PM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: kellynla

I don't think the musli hordes will be impressed by the Pope or by ancient Greek wisdom.


25 posted on 09/12/2006 12:26:00 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: kellynla
based on the premise that the concept of an Islamic "holy war" is unreasonable and against God's nature.

Oh, no. In light of these disparaging comments, I'm betting on another Islam-inspired Papal assassination attempt.

26 posted on 09/12/2006 12:27:34 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: kellynla

I just know what I read in the Bible.


27 posted on 09/12/2006 12:28:22 PM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: kellynla

God bless Pope Benedict.


28 posted on 09/12/2006 12:28:24 PM PDT by khnyny
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To: epluribus_2

When I was a kid in the fifties we prayed the Rosary in school for the fall of communism.


29 posted on 09/12/2006 12:28:43 PM PDT by wtc911 (You can't get there from here)
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To: truth_seeker
I don't think the musli hordes will be impressed by the Pope or by ancient Greek wisdom.knowing full well they will ignore him, he forces them to show their hands, to reveal to the West exactly what they are.
30 posted on 09/12/2006 12:29:24 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: truth_seeker
I don't think the musli hordes will be impressed by the Pope or by ancient Greek wisdom.

Of course not ... but he's not just addressing the mohammedan barbarians. He's also addressing a timid Christendom, that has become entirely too unsure of itself. By addressing the musli as he does, knowing full well they will ignore him, he forces them to show their hands, to reveal to the West exactly what they are.

31 posted on 09/12/2006 12:29:51 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: RexBeach

But man contains both good and evil. The Pope is not attempting to dialog with the evil that lies at the core of Islam, but is rather appealing to the vestiges of goodness within some of its aherents. Although my knowledge of the Koran is superficial, it does seem that Islam, unlike Christianity and Judaism, is incompatable with reason.

Therefore, the seeds of reason can weaken Islam's death-grip on at least some fortunate souls.


32 posted on 09/12/2006 12:30:42 PM PDT by Huber ("Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of classes - our ancestors." - G K Chesterton)
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To: All

gee , now if the US had ONE politician with half the bals the Pope has maybe we'd be getting somewhere. Just one who will call Islam for what it is . Even our own republicans are lame when it coe to saying whats really on the minds of people like us . Time for drastic action I say . Lets see if ANYONE steps up to the plate.


33 posted on 09/12/2006 12:31:09 PM PDT by sonic109
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To: P-Marlowe; Alex Murphy; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg

Must resist urge to post obvious pic....


34 posted on 09/12/2006 12:31:36 PM PDT by Gamecock (The GRPL: Because life is too short for bad Theology*)
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To: AD from SpringBay
Pope: "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul".

You: "Half right? Considering the sin nature we are born into vioence seems quite compatible with the flesh..."

Who exactly are you responding to? It certainly wasn't the Pope.

35 posted on 09/12/2006 12:35:08 PM PDT by pgyanke (Christ embraces sinners; liberals embrace the sin.)
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To: AD from SpringBay; stockstrader

"Half right? Considering the sin nature we are born into vioence seems quite compatible with the flesh; maybe the Pope wasn't in 'the zone' when he said this."

I'm guessing he's speaking of the soul, not the flesh, that being why he said 'soul.' Or, hey, we could just give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not Catholic but I'm definitely for giving fellow Christians more of a break and not trying to deconstruct their words; we are on the same team after all.

Speaking of deconstructing words:

"I would like to see the Pope now challenge the leaders and clerics of Islam to put out a 'fatwah'--condemning to hell, any maniac that kills innocent people in the name of Islam."

I think the clerics would be very happy to say this in English. They then will turn around and say, in Arabic, to their followers that there are no innocents in the West, that even Muslims that reject violent jihad are guilty of complicity with the West, and so it's OK to murder.


36 posted on 09/12/2006 12:36:34 PM PDT by No.6 (www.fourthfightergroup.com)
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To: ArrogantBustard; All
The Italian Muslims were quick to praise (or shall I say agree) with Pope Benedict when he spoke about the West's secular trend.

Here is another related article which just appeared:

Pope weighs into controversy over Islam and violence during Germany visit

37 posted on 09/12/2006 12:40:02 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: Gamecock

38 posted on 09/12/2006 12:41:17 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: sageb1

I should clarify my comment about the Italian Muslims. They are attempting to get recognition by the Italian government. They will, of course, grab any chance to take a jab at the West to promote Islam, but they are not going to jeopardize their effort for recognition. I would prefer they not be recognized, but we will see what happens.


39 posted on 09/12/2006 12:43:54 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: Gamecock

Mo' ham-head is the one with his guts ripped open.

40 posted on 09/12/2006 12:44:18 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: pissant

Amen!!! I think he's stronger than JP II.....LOVE him!!


41 posted on 09/12/2006 12:45:20 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy ("When Cabals Go Kabooms"....upcoming book on Mary McCarthy's Coup-Plotters.)
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To: No.6
"I'm not Catholic but I'm definitely for giving fellow Christians more of a break and not trying to deconstruct their words; we are on the same team after all."

Bump!

Kind of like Tony Snow at today's press conference trying to make the media understand that it is UNITY that will win the war.

42 posted on 09/12/2006 12:46:32 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: Gamecock
Now, now, he lost touch in his old days due to Parkinson's disease, and his time is now over anyway. Our new pontiff is well aware of the evil of Islam, and will be much more direct with them, and I am sure he must have cringed when he saw Pope JPII do that.
43 posted on 09/12/2006 12:47:45 PM PDT by Theoden (Fidei Defensor)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Where is that from? I've never seen it before.


44 posted on 09/12/2006 12:48:01 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: sageb1

It's a detail from a frescoe painted in some moderately obscure, but very old Catholic Church in Italy. The whole frescoe depicts various unfortunates, whom the artist believed to have been damned, being subjected to various tortures in Hell. While amusing, such depiction is theologically problematic. The Church canonizes Saints, but does not proclaim that any specific person is actually in Hell (although she most definitely does teach that Hell is populated).


45 posted on 09/12/2006 12:51:49 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Torie
"At his university lecture, Benedict, a leading theologian who has always drawn clear lines between Roman Catholicism and other faiths, also appeared to criticize Protestant churches and contemporary Third World theologians for not stressing the link between faith and reason clearly enough."

What does the Pope mean by the above? Protestant churches in any event cover the gamut.

I believe it's a reference to papal remarks covered on this thread, in which the Pope decries the dehellenization of reason and faith.

See my post #3 for an excerpt of his remarks, in which he discusses the Protestant Reformation specifically. I believe this is what your quote, above, is referring to.

46 posted on 09/12/2006 12:54:23 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Colossians 2:6)
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bttt


47 posted on 09/12/2006 12:57:32 PM PDT by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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"How do you negotiate with someone who's starting point is your death?" -- Rush Limbaugh
48 posted on 09/12/2006 1:00:43 PM PDT by Michael Goldsberry (Lt. Bruce C. Fryar USN 01-02-70 Laos)
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To: kellynla; HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity; Coleus
Excellent news.

I hope Vatican security is prepared.
49 posted on 09/12/2006 1:02:19 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: sageb1

Here's a slightly larger detail. The artist seems to have been one Giovanni da Modena, the painting is of the Last Judgement.

50 posted on 09/12/2006 1:03:24 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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