Posted on 09/13/2006 12:32:39 PM PDT by cogitator
Given that all heat on Earth, save the minuscule amount derived from the universal background radiation, and from volcanoes, comes from the sun. It is, far and away, the first order variable in the equation. Are you saying that changes in the output of the sun do not impact Earth's temperature?
Let's extrude your argument. Suppose for one month the total output of the sun doubled. What do you suppose the outcome would be here on the planet? Now let's suppose instead that solar flare activity doubled for one month. In which case do you supposed we might find the Earth warmer?
That's .2346. LOL.
The authors used a blend of seven recent reconstructions of Northern Hemisphere temperature over the past millennium to test the effects of long-term changes in brightness.
So they manufactured a fraudulent series of models to prove their preconceived notions. That is a completely manufacture propaganda statement. They have NO data to back that claim up at all. More fraudulent Junk Science propaganda. They just went out and stated their political propaganda as "Science" these are not scientists at all.
Your first point is disputable, but it's also a strawman. The concern at present is the effects of increasing atmospheric CO2 concentrations. It seems fairly clear that there was a Medieval Warm Period (warmest 1000-1300) and a Little Ice Age (coldest 1600-1750, still cold through the mid-1800s), and then a warming. The warming since the turn of the century has been augmented by increasing greenhouse gas concentrations, most notably since the mid-1970s. The trend is the main concern, not the absolute value.
This article simply documents a dying hoax,
You are incorrect. Global warming is not a hoax. The scientific data is clear that warming is occurring, and the likeliest cause, as the article states, is anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions. As for the political and socioeconomic ramifications, those are somewhat dependent on the course of future warming, which is uncertain.
Not from this article; the actual source publication in Nature is probably a lot more detailed.
It's just not variable enough to appreciably affect climate (right now, at least).
Brightness (lamberts) and Energy (joules) are two different things.
Well, I'm not a scientist nor do I play one on TV, so could you explain why that should be held in high esteem.
Second, it isn't clear from the article how they modelled the effect of increased solar radiation on the Earth's temperature. If all they're doing is adding the energy to the atmosphere's heat budget and asking what the temperature is, they're almost certainly wrong.
Especially as brightness and direct radiation effects are not the only way that solar activity affects the environment of the Earth. Variations in Solar Magnetic flux can induce substantive changes in Earth's albedo through the modulation of cloud layers.
http://www.sciencebits.com/CosmicRaysClimate
Cosmic Rays and ClimateBy: Nir J. Shaviv *** Clouds have been observed from space since the beginning of the 1980's. By the mid 1990's, enough cloud data accumulated to provide empirical evidence for a solar/cloud-cover link. Without the satellite data, it hard or probably impossible to get statistically meaningful results because of the large systematic errors plaguing ground based observations. Using the satellite data, Henrik Svensmark of the Danish National Space Center in Copenhagen has shown that cloud cover varies in sync with the variable cosmic ray flux reaching the Earth. Over the relevant time scale, the largest variations arise from the 11-yr solar cycle, and indeed, this cloud cover seemed to follow the cycle and a half of cosmic ray flux modulation. Later, Henrik Svensmark and his colleague Nigel Marsh, have shown that the correlation is primarily with low altitude cloud cover. This can be seen in fig. 3.
Notes and References:
* On cosmic ray and cloud cover correlation:
* On cosmic ray climate correlations on Geological time scales:
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Well.....It is only a small effect that we are seeing.
Besides, the Sun has just finished it's cycle. The extra energy that was expended during the most active portion of the last cycle has nothing to do with brightness in any case. The radiation cannot be seen and it heats the outer layers of the atmosphere which eventually works it's way on down. Plus the UV heats the ground and non reflective objects.
After a few years of that, we can measure a small effect but it has happened before.
The Earth was once warmer, and colder. It will be again.
That's the way I see it, and I spent the night at a Holiday Inn Express only once...
I think they use beryllium-10 in ice cores.
Well, I'm not a scientist nor do I play one on TV, so could you explain why that should be held in high esteem.
It is a measure of cosmic ray density as it fluctuates with the magnetic field. Sun spots are an effect of solar magnetic flux and thus the measure relates to total Solar "Activity" as opposed to merely the Sun's brightness. It also is measure of the incidence cosmic ray activity on the galactic scale as well.
Since man is millions of years old, and has survived the "real deal," how is your claim of unreasonable recent human intrusion- valid?
It depends on the variable that's changing. You're coming at it from a perspective of the total amount of CO2 in the atmosphere; that's a small percentage of the total content of the atmosphere, BUT CO2 is one of the "radiatively-active" constituents. Oxygen and nitrogen don't have interact with incoming or outgoing radiation significantly.
But how much of a change is 280 to 360? (I always calculate the percent change based on the end value, so 80/360 x 100 = 22%. Now that's kinda significant.
Cosmic Rays, Carbon Dioxide and Climate: Rebuttal of Shaviv and Veizer
Excerpt: " We thus find that there is no significant correlation of the CRF curve from Shavivs model and the temperature curve of Veizer, even after one of the four CRF peaks was arbitrarily shifted by 40 m.y. to improve the fit to the temperature curve. There also is no significant correlation between the original meteorite data and the temperature reconstruction. The explained variance claimed by [Shaviv and Veizer, 2003] is the maximum achievable by optimal smoothing of the temperature data and by making several arbitrary adjustments to the cosmic ray data (within their large uncertainty) to line up their peaks with the temperature curve."
As an aside, Jan Veizer is a great scientist, and you don't become a great scientist without taking a few risks.
Thanks for the reply!
Thank you, but could you explain in layman's terms A. How they know this to be true and B. how is it related to other data taken objectively as it relates to "global climate" per sey.
Your chart never ceases to produce a laugh from me. Thanks, I needed that. LOL ...
People are stronger than Sun. We can make Greenland a green land again if we drive more SUVs and keep smoking cigarettes. Read my tagline.
Interesting that article had nothing to say concerning the correlations with current measures of CRF & lower cloud cover, nor the multiple studies that do reflect the geological trends overall.
One indeed must look at the whole as well.
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