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Old McDonald had a labor hassle (rumors of federal raids causing 'foreign workers' walk out)
© Copyright 2006, Messenger Post Newspapers. All Rights Reserved. ^ | 09/15/06 | Messenger Post reporter Julie Sherwood

Posted on 09/15/2006 8:32:02 AM PDT by Behind Liberal Lines

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To: CharlesWayneCT
I agree with you. It is wrong to hire illegals and the effects of wage stagnation as a result. But what do we do when there is more work than there are people to do the work? Right now we are at record low unemployment. We can't grow the workers on trees for when we need them, so a logical guest worker program for the agricultural season, is obviously needed. And the fact that businesses are essentially shut down when workers fear an ICE raid is going to resonate through the economy if enforement is intensified. That's probably why the Senate passed its amnesty plan - the economy is dependent on cheap labor.

On the other hand, we can open our borders to cheap, thrid world produce when it is demonstrated we don't have enough workers and we aren't willing to import them, too.

41 posted on 09/15/2006 9:11:39 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: spectre
Well, if it means IYW, that not getting in the way of getting milk to market, does not mean I have a brain, so be it.

BTW, do you need a web link so you can get your own cow so you can have "American" pure milk?

BTW, have fun with your local zoning board and Elsie the cow kicking where you deserved to be kicked, in your pursuit of American pure milk.

42 posted on 09/15/2006 9:15:03 AM PDT by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

We need a guest worker program for agriculture. Other than that we should build a wall and enforce employer sanctions with a verifiable SS number database. This will encourage illegals to self deport. But we need Mexican labor for our farmers and food processors.


43 posted on 09/15/2006 9:22:37 AM PDT by dennisw (Confucius say man who go through turnstile sideways going to Bangkok)
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To: Dane
"Fine, why don't you set an example and pay for them."

Don't be an idiot. You know, I have every modern piece of equipment here in my shops to deal with hazardous waste...and gun cleaning. NOT because big brother mandates that I do so....but because it is simply more efficient. Sure, I could hire a bunch of illegals to do this grunt work...but I don't want to see them get skin cancer. I don't want to operate my business in an illegal fashion and in short order the equipment will pay for itself!

Modernize or get the hell out of business.

Get a clue.
44 posted on 09/15/2006 9:23:04 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

Tisk, Tisk, Tisk. The illegals aren't coming to work for fear of being caught. What shall we do. I'm just all tied up in a tizzy.

...Hmmmm...

Just say...NO...to Bush's/senate's sorry excuse for letting illegals into our country...


45 posted on 09/15/2006 9:23:36 AM PDT by Mrs. Darla Ruth Schwerin
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To: Dane
Why yes only in America could milking cows become a crime.

Really Dane?
Try and milk cows in Mexico, or do construction, or hold a protest rally, then call me from the Mexican Jail.
46 posted on 09/15/2006 9:24:20 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: taxed2death
Don't be an idiot. You know, I have every modern piece of equipment here in my shops to deal with hazardous waste...and gun cleaning. NOT because big brother mandates that I do so....but because it is simply more efficient.

And you have experience in running a farm how?

A gun shop is much different than a farm.

47 posted on 09/15/2006 9:25:29 AM PDT by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: Dane

Well, if it means IYW, that not getting in the way of getting milk to market, does not mean I have a brain, so be it.
BTW, do you need a web link so you can get your own cow so you can have "American" pure milk?

BTW, have fun with your local zoning board and Elsie the cow kicking where you deserved to be kicked, in your pursuit of American pure milk.




Dane....come on. You simply can't really believe the milk industry, farm industry, constructions industry, etc would all fold without BREAKING laws. That is just a HUGE LIE. I'm not sure of your motive, but it is a LIE.

While you're at it. Why not allow slave labor? Tax evasion? Burning down the competitions facilities? How abour dumping toxic cemicals into rivers? Any other laws need to be ignored in order for an idustry to stay in business, Dane?

I swear 90% of the population is ignorant and it sucks to be in the remaining 10%.


48 posted on 09/15/2006 9:26:39 AM PDT by MadeInAmerica (- If ILLEGAL means Undocumented - Then Breaking and Entering means Unannounced Visit)
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To: Dane

"Yes we must get that evil milk that was milked by impure hands.(rolling eyes)"

Illegal hands Dane.... but then you already know that.


49 posted on 09/15/2006 9:26:53 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: taxed2death
Illegal hands Dane.... but then you already know that

Fine then get yourself a cow and get your own milk. No one is stopping you.

50 posted on 09/15/2006 9:28:32 AM PDT by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Sensible observations, all.

Other countries have sensible guest worker programs. We do not because our congress critters cannot see the difference between a sensible guest worker program and pandering to the ethnic lobby.

Japan, for instance, puts few restricts on the number of guest workers imported. They don't have to because one restriction provides an economic disincentive to lay off Japanese workers to hire foreign workers-- a 10% premium must be paid over the going wage in the industry for foreign workers. This works great for chicken pluckers (a job Japanese really do not want to do) and talented foreign software engineers (who need to be at least 10% more productive than their Japanese counterparts to make it pay).

Were America to adopt a similar approach, some of the best Latin American construction workers-- roofers, drywall, etc. would do just fine because they are well worth the 10% premium in productivity.

Switzerland's work force has about 20% foreign workers, far more than outs. But again, citizenship isn't handed out like candy. Foreign workers can remain foreign workers for a very long time, but they can only become citizens throught the acceptance of the local community. They also require foreign workers to be paid the prevailing wage to make sure it isn't a ruse for Swiss employers to keep wage rates down.

Ultimately, America will support a guest worker program once our government shows it is serious about deporting criminals, gang-bangers, welfare queens and fifth columnists. The pro-illegal lobby has only itself to blame for purposely confusing illegal immigration with legal immigration.

Oh, and one other thing-- since we have far more people in the world aspiring to be guest workers than we have available vacancies, shouldn't preference be given to those who have demonstrated the most respect for our laws by applying to come in legally? Or learning English? Or supporting American culture, values and principles?

51 posted on 09/15/2006 9:33:28 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Are there any men left in Washington? Or are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

Hey, I was walking down the street and this guy comes up to me and offers me a 54" big-screen plasma TV for $75 bucks... How was *I* supposed to know it was stolen?!??

Now I know those $6/hr workers had paperwork, how was *I* supposed to know they were forged?!?

Sure.

I do think there is a way to solve this. The govt should require a photo ID with an employee ID number be provided to employers when they hire. Then, they should have a website that allows the employer to put in the ID#, and see the picture on the card. Perhaps they can be required to put in their employer ID and P.I.N as well to prevent browsing the system.

That would do it. Forged docs would not match a photo/# screen like that.


52 posted on 09/15/2006 9:35:35 AM PDT by Paloma_55 (I may be a hateful bigot, but I still love you)
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To: sheana
When the politicians come up with an actual guest worker program that does not include amnesty of any kind, shuts down the border, and does not use the taxpayer to subsidize it you will see most conservatives get behind it. Til then..............

Spot on post!

53 posted on 09/15/2006 9:36:11 AM PDT by investigateworld (Abortion stops a beating heart)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
I'm in a minority here, but I support a guest worker program for this reason. Canada has a program, which strictly controls the workers, forces them to go back to Mexico after the growing season, and forbids them any "path to citizenship".

Unless they put them on a plane, they probably just come down here and loiter until they can go back to Canada. LOL!

54 posted on 09/15/2006 9:39:10 AM PDT by Tamar1973 (Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.)
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To: MikefromOhio
If you can't make it without ILLEGAL labor, then you shouldn't be in business in the first place.

I agree. Liberals complain that wages are stagnant despite the relatively good economy. It's a direct result of our dependence on illegal alien labor.

55 posted on 09/15/2006 9:40:38 AM PDT by Tamar1973 (Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.)
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To: Dane
"A gun shop is much different than a farm."

I do not run a gun shop. My reference to "guns" is spraying equipment. I buy a spray gun cleaner and if I paid an illegal to clean guns.... comparing the cost between the two my OSHA approved equipment pays for itself in less than 2000 hours.

Tell farmer joe to get a freaking bank loan for equipment...it's tax deductible...(as if that matters to this tax cheat)....
LOL
56 posted on 09/15/2006 9:44:17 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Dane

Dane, you are slipping. It took you five minutes, eight seconds to show up on an immigration thread to support the insupportable.


57 posted on 09/15/2006 9:44:42 AM PDT by diogenes ghost
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To: Tamar1973

Actually, part of the contract signed with the government for the workers is a guarantee that the employee will purchase a plane ticket back to the worker's home town.

The employees also have to provide food and shelter for the workers (which is actually typical for farm work, as in this case where the place where the mexicans lived was provided by the dairy farmer).

There was just a story about the Canadian program on the news somewhere.


58 posted on 09/15/2006 9:59:12 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: calvo

I don't agree. Canada runs a program where the workers are legal, and they get lots of mexicans -- mexico has a large supply of workers who can't find jobs.

So yes, I think that if we have a legal program, we would have no problem hiring mexicans to come over in a temporary guest worker program.

The key is to separate the program from citizenship, and to not allow illegal immigrants to join the program while they are here in the country.


59 posted on 09/15/2006 10:03:03 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Bommer
No the problem lies with with idiot who wants slave labor because he is too cheap to invest in milking machines

Ok, I've done this job a few times. My best friend when I was a kid lived on a dairy farm.

First, I'm 100% sure he has milking machines. These illegals are not sitting on a three legged stool squeezing teats.

The milking machines have to be applied, disinfected, etc, etc. Its labor intensive and the hours suck.

This farmer is worried about his profit margin only. He's more than comfortable letting you and I subsidize his lifestyle.

Screw him.

60 posted on 09/15/2006 10:04:56 AM PDT by vikzilla
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