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How the Atomic Bomb Saved 4,000,000 Lives
Omaha World Herald | November, 1987 | Davis

Posted on 09/25/2006 1:20:44 PM PDT by pabianice

Invasion Not Found in the History Books

Deep in the recesses of the National Archives in Washington, D.C., hidden for nearly four decades lie thousands of pages of yellowing and dusty documents stamped "Top Secret". These documents, now declassified, are the plans for Operation Downfall, the invasion of Japan during World War II. Only a few Americans in 1945 were aware of the elaborate plans that had been prepared for the Allied Invasion of the Japanese home islands. Even fewer today are aware of the defenses the Japanese had prepared to counter the invasion had it been launched. Operation Downfall was finalized during the spring and summer of 1945. It called for two massive military undertakings to be carried out in succession and aimed at the heart of the Japanese Empire.

In the first invasion - code named Operation Olympic - American combat troops would land on Japan by amphibious assault during the early morning hours of November 1, 1945 - 50 years ago. Fourteen combat divisions of soldiers and Marines would land on heavily fortified and defended Kyushu, the southernmost of the Japanese home islands, after an unprecedented naval and aerial bombardment.

The second invasion on March 1, 1946 - code named Operation Coronet - would send at least 22 divisions against 1 million Japanese defenders on the main island of Honshu and the Tokyo Plain. It's goal: the unconditional surrender of Japan. With the exception of a part of the British Pacific Fleet, Operation Downfall was to be a strictly American operation. It called for using the entire Marine Corps, the entire Pacific Navy, elements of the 7th Army Air Force, the 8 Air Force (recently redeployed from Europe), 10th Air Force and the American Far Eastern Air Force. More than 1.5 million combat soldiers, with 3 million more in support or more than 40% of all servicemen still in uniform in 1945 - would be directly involved in the two amphibious assaults. Casualties were expected to be extremely heavy.

Admiral William Leahy estimated that there would be more than 250,000 Americans killed or wounded on Kyushu alone. General Charles Willoughby, chief of intelligence for General Douglas MacArthur, the Supreme Commander of the Southwest Pacific, estimated American casualties would be one million men by the fall of 1946. Willoughby's own intelligence staff considered this to be a conservative estimate.

During the summer of 1945, America had little time to prepare for such an endeavor, but top military leaders were in almost unanimous agreement that an invasion was necessary.

While naval blockade and strategic bombing of Japan was considered to be useful, General MacArthur, for instance, did not believe a blockade would bring about an unconditional surrender. The advocates for invasion agreed that while a naval blockade chokes, it does not kill; and though strategic bombing might destroy cities, it leaves whole armies intact.

So on May 25, 1945, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, after extensive deliberation, issued to General MacArthur, Admiral Chester Nimitz, and Army Air Force General Henry Arnold, the top secret directive to proceed with the invasion of Kyushu. The target date was after the typhoon season.

President Truman approved the plans for the invasions July 24. Two days later, the United Nations issued the Potsdam Proclamation, which called upon Japan to surrender unconditionally or face total destruction. Three days later, the Japanese governmental news agency broadcast to the world that Japan would ignore the proclamation and would refuse to surrender. During this same period it was learned -- via monitoring Japanese radio broadcasts -- that Japan had closed all schools and mobilized its schoolchildren, was arming its civilian population and was fortifying caves and building underground defenses.

Operation Olympic called for a four pronged assault on Kyushu. Its purpose was to seize and control the southern one-third of that island and establish naval and air bases, to tighten the naval blockade of the home islands, to destroy units of the main Japanese army and to support the later invasion of the Tokyo Plain.

The preliminary invasion would began October 27 when the 40th Infantry Division would land on a series of small islands west and southwest of Kyushu. At the same time, the 158th Regimental Combat Team would invade and occupy a small island 28 miles south of Kyushu. On these islands, seaplane bases would be established and radar would be set up to provide advance air warning for the invasion fleet, to serve as fighter direction centers for the carrier-based aircraft and to provide an emergency anchorage for the invasion fleet, should things not go well on the day of the invasion. As the invasion grew imminent, the massive firepower of the Navy - the Third and Fifth Fleets -- would approach Japan. The Third Fleet, under Admiral William "Bull" Halsey, with its big guns and naval aircraft, would provide strategic support for the operation against Honshu and Hokkaido. Halsey's fleet would be composed of battleships, heavy cruisers, destroyers, dozens of support ships and three fast carrier task groups. From these carriers, hundreds of Navy fighters, dive bombers and torpedo planes would hit targets all over the island of Honshu. The 3,000 ship Fifth Fleet, under Admiral Raymond Spruance, would carry the invasion troops.

Several days before the invasion, the battleships, heavy cruisers and destroyers would pour thousands of tons of high explosives into the target areas. They would not cease the bombardment until after the land forces had been launched. During the early morning hours of November 1, the invasion would begin. Thousands of soldiers and Marines would pour ashore on beaches all along the eastern, southeastern, southern and western coasts of Kyushu. Waves of Helldivers, Dauntless dive bombers, Avengers, Corsairs, and Hellcats from 66 aircraft carriers would bomb, rocket and strafe enemy defenses, gun emplacements and troop concentrations along the beaches.

The Eastern Assault Force consisting of the 25th, 33rd and 41st Infantry Divisions would land near Miyaski, at beaches called Austin, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, and Ford, and move inland to attempt to capture the city and its nearby airfield. The Southern Assault Force, consisting of the 1st Cavalry Division, the 43rd Division and Americal Division would land inside Ariake Bay at beaches labeled DeSoto, Dusenberg, Essex, Ford, and Franklin and attempt to capture Shibushi and the city of Kanoya and its airfield.

On the western shore of Kyushu, at beaches Pontiac, Reo, Rolls Royce, Saxon, Star, Studebaker, Stutz, Winston and Zephyr, the V Amphibious Corps would land the 2nd, 3rd and 5th Marine Divisions, sending half of its force inland to Sendai and the other half to the port city of Kagoshima.

On November 4, the Reserve Force, consisting of the 81st and 98th Infantry Divisions and the 11th Airborne Division, after feigning an attack of the island of Shikoku, would be landed -- if not needed elsewhere -- near Kaimondake, near the southernmost tip of Kagoshima Bay, at the beaches designated Locomobile, Lincoln, LaSalle, Hupmobile, Moon, Mercedes, Maxwell, Overland, Oldsmobile, Packard and Plymouth.

Olympic was not just a plan for invasion, but for conquest and occupation as well. It was expected to take four months to achieve its objective, with the three fresh American divisions per month to be landed in support of that operation if needed.

If all went well with Olympic, Coronet would be launched March 1, 1946 Coronet would be twice the size of Olympic, with as many as 28 divisions landing on Honshu.

All along the coast east of Tokyo, the American 1st Army would land the 5th, 7th, 27th, 44th, 86th, and 96th Infantry Divisions along with the 4th and 6th Marine Divisions.

At Sagami Bay, just south of Tokyo, the entire 8th and 10th Armies would strike north and east to clear the long western shore of Tokyo Bay and attempt to go as far as Yokohama. The assault troops landing south of Tokyo would be the 4th, 6th, 8th, 24th, 31st, 37th, 38th and 8th Infantry Divisions, along with the 13th and 20th Armored Divisions.

Following the initial assault, eight more divisions - the 2nd, 28th, 35th, 91st, 95th, 97th and 104th Infantry Divisions and the 11th Airborne Division -- would be landed. If additional troops were needed, as expected, other divisions redeployed from Europe and undergoing training in the United States would be shipped to Japan in what was hoped to be the final push.

Captured Japanese documents and post war interrogations of Japanese military leaders disclose that information concerning the number of Japanese planes available for the defense of the home islands was dangerously in error.

During the sea battle at Okinawa alone, Japanese kamakaze aircraft sank 32 Allied ships and damaged more than 400 others. But during the summer of 1945, American top brass concluded that the Japanese had spent their air force since American bombers and fighters daily flew unmolested over Japan.

What the military leaders did not know was that by the end of July the Japanese had been saving all aircraft, fuel, and pilots in reserve, and had been feverishly building new planes for the decisive battle for their homeland.

As part of Ketsu-Go, the name for the plan to defend Japan -- the Japanese were building 20 suicide takeoff strips in southern Kyushu with underground hangars. They also had 35 camouflaged airfields and nine seaplane bases.

On the night before the expected invasion, 50 Japanese seaplane bombers, 100 former carrier aircraft and 50 land based army planes were to be launched in a suicide attack on the fleet.

The Japanese had 58 more airfields in Korea, western Honshu and Shikoku, which also were to be used for massive suicide attacks.

Allied intelligence had established that the Japanese had no more than 2,500 aircraft of which they guessed 300 would be deployed in suicide attacks.

In August 1945, however, unknown to Allied intelligence, the Japanese still had 5, 651 army and 7,074 navy aircraft, for a total of 12, 725 planes of all types. Every village had some type of aircraft manufacturing activity. Hidden in mines, railway tunnels, under viaducts and in basements of department stores, work was being done to construct new planes.

Additionally, the Japanese were building newer and more effective models of the Okka, a rocket-propelled bomb much like the German V-1, but flown by a suicide pilot.

When the invasion became imminent, Ketsu-Go called for a fourfold aerial plan of attack to destroy up to 800 Allied ships.

While Allied ships were approaching Japan, but still in the open seas, an initial force of 2,000 army and navy fighters were to fight to the death to control the skies over kyushu. A second force of 330 navy combat pilots were to attack the main body of the task force to keep it from using its fire support and air cover to protect the troop carrying transports. While these two forces were engaged, a third force of 825 suicide planes was to hit the American transports.

As the invasion convoys approached their anchorages, another 2,000 suicide planes were to be launched in waves of 200 to 300, to be used in hour by hour attacks.

By mid-morning of the first day of the invasion, most of the American land-based aircraft would be forced to return to their bases, leaving the defense against the suicide planes to the carrier pilots and the shipboard gunners.

Carrier pilots crippled by fatigue would have to land time and time again to rearm and refuel. Guns would malfunction from the heat of continuous firing and ammunition would become scarce. Gun crews would be exhausted by nightfall, but still the waves of kamikaze would continue. With the fleet hovering off the beaches, all remaining Japanese aircraft would be committed to nonstop suicide attacks, which the Japanese hoped could be sustained for 10 days. The Japanese planned to coordinate their air strikes with attacks from the 40 remaining submarines from the Imperial Navy -- some armed with Long Lance torpedoes with a range of 20 miles -- when the invasion fleet was 180 miles off Kyushu.

The Imperial Navy had 23 destroyers and two cruisers which were operational. These ships were to be used to counterattack the American invasion. A number of the destroyers were to be beached at the last minute to be used as anti-invasion gun platforms.

Once offshore, the invasion fleet would be forced to defend not only against the attacks from the air, but would also be confronted with suicide attacks from sea. Japan had established a suicide naval attack unit of midget submarines, human torpedoes and exploding motorboats.

The goal of the Japanese was to shatter the invasion before the landing. The Japanese were convinced the Americans would back off or become so demoralized that they would then accept a less-than-unconditional surrender and a more honorable and face-saving end for the Japanese.

But as horrible as the battle of Japan would be off the beaches, it would be on Japanese soil that the American forces would face the most rugged and fanatical defense encountered during the war.

Throughout the island-hopping Pacific campaign, Allied troops had always out numbered the Japanese by 2 to 1 and sometimes 3 to 1. In Japan it would be different. By virtue of a combination of cunning, guesswork, and brilliant military reasoning, a number of Japan's top military leaders were able to deduce, not only when, but where, the United States would land its first invasion forces.

Facing the 14 American divisions landing at Kyushu would be 14 Japanese divisions, 7 independent mixed brigades, 3 tank brigades and thousands of naval troops. On Kyushu the odds would be 3 to 2 in favor of the Japanese, with 790,000 enemy defenders against 550,000 Americans. This time the bulk of the Japanese defenders would not be the poorly trained and ill-equipped labor battalions that the Americans had faced in the earlier campaigns.

The Japanese defenders would be the hard core of the home army. These troops were well-fed and well equipped. They were familiar with the terrain, had stockpiles of arms and ammunition, and had developed an effective system of transportation and supply almost invisible from the air. Many of these Japanese troops were the elite of the army, and they were swollen with a fanatical fighting spirit.

Japan's network of beach defenses consisted of offshore mines, thousands of suicide scuba divers attacking landing craft, and mines planted on the beaches. Coming ashore, the American Eastern amphibious assault forces at Miyazaki would face three Japanese divisions, and two others poised for counterattack. Awaiting the Southeastern attack force at Ariake Bay was an entire division and at least one mixed infantry brigade.

On the western shores of Kyushu, the Marines would face the most brutal opposition. Along the invasion beaches would be the three Japanese divisions , a tank brigade, a mixed infantry brigade and an artillery command. Components of two divisions would also be poised to launch counterattacks

If not needed to reinforce the primary landing beaches, the American Reserve Force would be landed at the base of Kagoshima Bay November 4, where they would be confronted by two mixed infantry brigades, parts of two infantry divisions and thousands of naval troops.

All along the invasion beaches, American troops would face coastal batteries, anti-landing obstacles and a network of heavily fortified pillboxes, bunkers, and underground fortresses. As Americans waded ashore, they would face intense artillery and mortar fire as they worked their way through concrete rubble and barbed-wire entanglements arranged to funnel them into the muzzles of these Japanese guns.

On the beaches and beyond would be hundreds of Japanese machine gun positions, beach mines, booby traps, trip-wire mines and sniper units. Suicide units concealed in "spider holes" would engage the troops as they passed nearby. In the heat of battle, Japanese infiltration units would be sent to reap havoc in the American lines by cutting phone and communication lines. Some of the Japanese troops would be in American uniform, English-speaking Japanese officers were assigned to break in on American radio traffic to call off artillery fire, to order retreats and to further confuse troops. Other infiltration with demolition charges strapped on their chests or backs wold attempt to blow up american tanks, artillery pieces and ammunition stores as they were unloaded ashore.

Beyond the beaches were large artillery pieces situated to bring down a curtain of fire on the beach. Some of these large guns were mounted on railroad tracks running in and out of caves protected by concrete and steel.

The battle for Japan would be won by what Simon Bolivar Buckner, a lieutenant general in the Confederate army during the Civil War, had called "Prairie Dog Warfare." This type of fighting was almost unknown to the ground troops in Europe and the Mediterranean. It was peculiar only to the soldiers and Marines who fought the Japanese on islands all over the Pacific -- at Tarawa, Saipan, Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

Prairie Dog Warfare was a battle for yards, feet and sometimes inches. It was brutal, deadly and dangerous form of combat aimed at an underground, heavily fortified, non-retreating enemy.

In the mountains behind the Japanese beaches were underground networks of caves, bunkers, command posts and hospitals connected by miles of tunnels with dozens of entrances and exits. Some of these complexes could hold up to 1,000 troops.

In addition to the use of poison gas and bacteriological warfare (which the Japanese had experimented with), Japan mobilized its citizenry.

Had Olympic come about, the Japanese civilian population, inflamed by a national slogan - "One Hundred Million Will Die for the Emperor and Nation" - were prepared to fight to the death. Twenty Eight Million Japanese had become a part of the National Volunteer Combat Force. They were armed with ancient rifles, lunge mines, satchel charges, Molotov cocktails and one-shot black powder mortars. Others were armed with swords, long bows, axes and bamboo spears. The civilian units were to be used in nighttime attacks, hit and run maneuvers, delaying actions and massive suicide charges at the weaker American positions.

At the early stage of the invasion, 1,000 Japanese and American soldiers would be dying every hour.

The invasion of Japan never became a reality because on August 6, 1945, an atomic bomb was exploded over Hiroshima. Three days later, a second bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. Within days the war with Japan was at a close.

Had these bombs not been dropped and had the invasion been launched as scheduled, combat casualties in Japan would have been at a minimum of the tens of thousands. Every foot of Japanese soil would have been paid for by Japanese and American lives.

One can only guess at how many civilians would have committed suicide in their homes or in futile mass military attacks.

In retrospect, the 1 million American men who were to be the casualties of the invasion, were instead lucky enough to survive the war.

Intelligence studies and military estimates made 50 years ago, and not latter-day speculation, clearly indicate that the battle for Japan might well have resulted in the biggest blood-bath in the history of modern warfare.

Far worse would be what might have happened to Japan as a nation and as a culture. When the invasion came, it would have come after several months of fire bombing all of the remaining Japanese cities. The cost in human life that resulted from the two atomic blasts would be small in comparison to the total number of Japanese lives that would have been lost by this aerial devastation.

With American forces locked in combat in the south of Japan, little could have prevented the Soviet Union from marching into the northern half of the Japanese home islands. Japan today cold be divided much like Korea and Germany.

The world was spared the cost of Operation Downfall, however, because Japan formally surrendered to the United Nations September 2, 1945, and World War II was over.

The aircraft carriers, cruisers and transport ships scheduled to carry the invasion troops to Japan, ferried home American troops in a gigantic operation called Magic Carpet.

In the fall of 1945, in the aftermath of the war, few people concerned themselves with the invasion plans. Following the surrender, the classified documents, maps, diagrams and appendices for Operation Downfall were packed away in boxes and eventually stored at the National Archives. These plans that called for the invasion of Japan paint a vivid description of what might have been one of the most horrible campaigns in the history of man. The fact that the story of the invasion of Japan is locked up in the National Archives and is not told in our history books is something for which all Americans can be thankful.

=


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: bombirannow; japan; ww2
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1 posted on 09/25/2006 1:20:46 PM PDT by pabianice
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To: pabianice

Uh-huh. But it might in the future take 4 billion lives. Particularly if it gets into the wrong hands, which I think may already have happened.


2 posted on 09/25/2006 1:22:19 PM PDT by Brilliant
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To: pabianice

Link? Who is "Davis"?


3 posted on 09/25/2006 1:22:40 PM PDT by TChris (The United Nations is suffering from delusions of relevance.)
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To: pabianice
Hurricane Katrina saved thousands of lives.
4 posted on 09/25/2006 1:28:23 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: TChris

More importantly the BOMB was a message that instantly said, WE BEAT YOU..and THE WAR IS OVER.


5 posted on 09/25/2006 1:28:27 PM PDT by samadams2000 (Somebody important make....THE CALL!)
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To: pabianice
Make it more like 50 million lives.

http://www.danieldrezner.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=736

"JUNE 18, 1945 - When A Democracy Chose Genocide

The United States government decided on June 18, 1945, to commit genocide on Japan with poison gas if its government did not surrender after the nuclear attacks approved in the same June 18 meeting. This was discovered by military historians Norman Polmar and Thomas Allen while researching a book on the end of the war in the Pacific. Their discovery came too late for inclusion in the book, so they published it instead in the Autumn 1997 issue of Military History Quarterly.

Polmar & Allen ran across references to this meeting in their research and put in a Freedom of Information Act request for related documents. Eventually they received, too late for use in their book, a copy of a document labeled "A Study of the Possible Use of Toxic Gas in Operation Olympic." The word "retaliatory" was PENCILED in between the words "possible" and "use".

Apparently there were only five of these documents circulated during World War Two. The document was requested by the Chemical Corps for historical study in 1947. In an attempt to "redact" history, another document was issued to change all the copies to emphasize retaliatory use rather than the reality of the US planning to use it offensively in support of the invasion of Japan.

The plan called for US heavy bombers to drop 56,583 tons of poison gas on Japanese cities in the 15 days before the invasion of Kyushu, then another 23,935 tons every 30 days thereafter. Tactical air support would drop more on troop concentrations.

The targets of the strategic bombing campaign were Japanese civilians in cities. Chemical Corps casualty estimates for this attack plan were five million dead with another five million injured. This was our backup to nuking Japan into surrender. If the A-bombs didn't work, we were going to gas the Japanese people from the air like bugs, and keep doing so until Japanese resistance ended or all the Japanese were dead.

Genocide is defined by treaty as the murder of a large number of people of an identifiable group, generally a nationality or religion, which number comprises an appreciable percentage of the total group. Five million dead is 6.4% of then 78 million people in the Japanese Home Islands, so this proposed gas attack would certainly have qualified as genocide.

What brought the United States government to that decision was the prospective casualties of a prolonged ground conquest of Japan against suicidal resistance, after Japanese Kamikaze attacks and suicidal ground resistance elsewhere had thoroughly dehumanized them to us.

The American people certainly would have supported such tactics at the time, especially as Japanese Imperial General Headquarters issued orders a month later, provided to us courtesy of code-breaking (MAGIC), to murder all Allied prisoners of war, all interned Allied civilians, and all other Allied civilians Japanese forces could catch in occupied China, the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia), Malaya, etc., starting with the impending British invasion of Malaya in late September 1945. The Imperial Japanese Army was every bit as evil as the Nazi SS, and more lethal. They'd probably have killed at least an additional 50 million people, more than had died in all of World War Two to that point, before Allied armies could eliminate Japanese forces overseas.

The horror would not have stopped there. An estimated ONE THIRD of the Japanese people (25-30 million) would have died of starvation, disease, poison gas and conventional weapons during a prolonged ground conquest of Japan. The Japanese Army planned on locking up the Emperor, seizing power and fighting to the bitter end once the US invasion started. Thank God for the atom bomb - killing 150,000 - 200,000 Japanese at Hiroshima and Nagasaki saved 75-80 million lives. One of whom would have been the writer's father, an infantry lieutenant who survived Okinawa.

So the United States has within living memory made a decision to commit genocide on a whole people as a matter of state policy. We didn't have to do it because the Japanese Emperor knew we'd do it."


6 posted on 09/25/2006 1:31:28 PM PDT by Thud
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To: pabianice
Twenty Eight Million Japanese had become a part of the National Volunteer Combat Force. They were armed with ancient rifles, lunge mines, satchel charges, Molotov cocktails and one-shot black powder mortars. Others were armed with swords, long bows, axes and bamboo spears. The civilian units were to be used in nighttime attacks, hit and run maneuvers, delaying actions and massive suicide charges at the weaker American positions.

Our soldiers would have had to kill massive numbers of these irregulars. Of the 28 Million, very few would have survived.

To me, 4 Million dead seems wildly optomistic. Dropping the bombs was a no-brainer.

7 posted on 09/25/2006 1:37:53 PM PDT by gridlock (The 'Pubbies will pick up at least TWO seats in the Senate and FOUR seats in the House in 2006)
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To: pabianice

bump for later read.


8 posted on 09/25/2006 1:39:26 PM PDT by wbill
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To: pabianice
I once lived in the only United States city to be hit with an atomic bomb.

On March 11, 1958, at 3:52 P.M. (EST), a B-47E departed Hunter AFB, Georgia, as number three aircraft in a flight of four en route to an overseas base. After level off at 15,000 feet, the aircraft accidentally jettisoned an unarmed nuclear weapon which impacted on a sparsely populated area approximately 6 miles from Florence, South Carolina. The Bomb's high explosive material exploded on impact. The explosion caused property damage and several injuries on the ground.

9 posted on 09/25/2006 1:42:46 PM PDT by N. Theknow ((Kennedys - Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat - But they know what's best.))
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To: Brilliant

Does anyone have the link?


10 posted on 09/25/2006 1:43:11 PM PDT by Mister Politics (www.misterpolitics.com)
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To: pabianice
Japan formally surrendered to the United Nations September 2, 1945, and World War II was over.

Huh?

11 posted on 09/25/2006 1:46:48 PM PDT by SlowBoat407 (I've had it with these &%#@* jihadis on these &%#@* planes!)
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To: wbill

ditto


12 posted on 09/25/2006 1:47:32 PM PDT by SengirV
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Truman had no choice in dropping the bomb, his predecessor and the military had already made that decision for him. Japan was seeking terms of surrender at the time. The bomb was dropped for Uncle Joe to see.


13 posted on 09/25/2006 1:49:25 PM PDT by PageMarker
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To: pabianice

I saw a documentary once with some Japanese officials from that time period, older now of course, and they were asked what caused them most to shudder, and they all agreed that the atomic bomb didn't scare them HALF as much as they Russians, who of course were planning their own invasion.

If the Russians had come, their Islands would have been called "Russia #2". So they said that they weighed being taken over by the Russians, and surrendering to the Americans, and we didn't look so bad.


14 posted on 09/25/2006 2:00:20 PM PDT by CapnBarbosa
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To: pabianice

As an Army brat with my folks in Japan in the 1950s I can testify to the great number of fortifications in the sandstone bluffs around Yokohama. As a little kid, my buddies and I played in those caves.


15 posted on 09/25/2006 2:04:27 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (BTUs are my Beat.)
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To: pabianice

Thanks for posting this article pabianice.


16 posted on 09/25/2006 2:09:59 PM PDT by fat city ("Journalists are sloppy, lazy and on expense account")
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To: pabianice

I wonder how many lives could have been saved if we had the balls to drop 1 or 2 after 9/11.


17 posted on 09/25/2006 2:10:09 PM PDT by nitzy (Every man needs a credo)
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To: pabianice; SandRat

BTTT


18 posted on 09/25/2006 2:13:32 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: PageMarker

"Truman had no choice in dropping the bomb, his predecessor and the military had already made that decision for him. Japan was seeking terms of surrender at the time. The bomb was dropped for Uncle Joe to see."


A good friend of mine was in the Marines on one of the islands south of Japan at the time that the invasion was to start. He was told to write his last letter home as he and his fellow Marines would not survive their initial landing on Japanese soil.

My father was on his way to a troopship that would take him and his unit to Japan to fight with the newly trained mountain units. His unit, already back from Europe and the Battle of the Bulge had a survival rate of 24%. The mountain fighting was to be spectacularly bad.

The estimate of four million is the lightest that I have heard. The most reliable estimates have been 6 million soldiers and as many as thirty million Japanese civilians who would die from battle or starvation and disease.

You probably have never experienced or thought about what the phrase "Total War" means and the meaning is simply this:

Kill or be killed.

Your contention that the bomb was for Joe Stalin is absolutely wrong. We dropped the bomb to save the lives of our soldiers as well as the lives of the Japanese. Harry made the decision, no one else and it was a good humanitarian decision.

Had we not dropped the bomb, we would have had to burn Japan to the ground. Every home, every factory and every tree. Leveled and burning.


19 posted on 09/25/2006 2:13:53 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore (This space for hire...)
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To: pabianice

It can save a billion lives now if we just give it a chance. The Muslim world is just screaming for it.


20 posted on 09/25/2006 2:15:01 PM PDT by Bon mots
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To: Thud

Wow,that`s a chilling read.

Was that Nimitz that said after we`re done with
the Japs their language will only be spoke in hell.


21 posted on 09/25/2006 2:21:44 PM PDT by 31M20RedDevil
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To: gridlock
My Dad (God rest his soul) would have been one of those sent in in an invasion force.

Had it gone through as planned, I might not be here today.
22 posted on 09/25/2006 2:23:21 PM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Well, good luck with all that.)
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To: reagan_fanatic

Same here. Harry Truman probably saved my life too.


23 posted on 09/25/2006 2:26:50 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore (This space for hire...)
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To: pabianice

I am an Atomic Bomb Baby. My father was an Army medic and in August 1945 he was in Tacoma, Washington, awaiting orders to ship out with the first wave of the Japanese invasion. His unit was told to expect 90% casualties.


24 posted on 09/25/2006 2:28:09 PM PDT by Dems_R_Losers (Vote as if your life depends on it -- because it does!!!)
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To: gridlock
To me, 4 Million dead seems wildly optomistic. Dropping the bombs was a no-brainer.

I concur. In the past I have discussed the subject at length with my father. Dad was a veteran of three beachhead invasions. He considered himself as a fugitive from the law of averages as it was. His only hope was "Please, God, don't let it be a fire in the tank crew compartment." Absent the bomb, I certainly wouldn't be here.

I had some discussions with a couple of Japanese who would have been involved when I was stationed in Japan in the '70's. They were equally convinced that the use of the Atomic bomb saved their lives.

25 posted on 09/25/2006 2:39:04 PM PDT by magslinger (If at first you don't succeed, squeeze, squeeze again.)
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To: SlowBoat407
Japan formally surrendered to the United Nations September 2, 1945, and World War II was over.

Huh?

The Allies started referring to themselves as the "United Nations" around the time of one of the summits -- I forget if it was Tehran, Yalta or Potsdam. The phrase appears in several of Truman's speeches. This was well before the charter was signed in San Francisco and the UN came into formal existence.

The Allies were the basis of the UN -- which is why, to this day, the five permanent Security Council members are the major powers that won WWII.

26 posted on 09/25/2006 2:40:44 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: 31M20RedDevil
Was that Nimitz that said after we`re done with the Japs their language will only be spoke in hell.

Admiral William "Bull" Halsey, actually, on the bridge of Enterprise as he reentered Pearl Harbor after the Japanese airstrike.

27 posted on 09/25/2006 2:41:20 PM PDT by Fatuncle (Of course I'm ignorant. I'm here to learn.)
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To: TexanToTheCore; reagan_fanatic

Me, too. See my #25.


28 posted on 09/25/2006 2:42:06 PM PDT by magslinger (If at first you don't succeed, squeeze, squeeze again.)
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To: TexanToTheCore
Ditto.

My Dad was in the Philippines. It was just a matter of time.

I wouldn't be here, my three wonderful children and beautiful grand-baby.

We must remember Pearl Harbor and never forget.

Evil is evil. Good will triumph over evil. We must is my hope.
29 posted on 09/25/2006 2:43:18 PM PDT by Crazy Jim (There are known unknowns and then there are unknown unknowns.)
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To: TexanToTheCore

My wife and children very likely wouldn't be here, either, as her grandfather was going to be headed to Japan. Hence, my wife's mother wouldn't have been born, and my wife, and children. So, it's not just the millions of lives that were saved, but the millions upon millions of lives that came into existence after the war, and the succeeding generations, due to not having to invade Japan.


30 posted on 09/25/2006 2:46:01 PM PDT by Catholic Iowan
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To: TexanToTheCore
You probably have never experienced or thought about what the phrase "Total War" means and the meaning is simply this:

Kill or be killed.

In the case of Japan, kill and be killed. The Japanese government was instructing civilians in tactics like strapping themselves with explosives and rolling under tanks. The Kamikaze pilots were just the tip of the iceberg -- lower-tech suicide attacks could call on old folks and children who wouldn't need much skill, training or a flyable airplane.

Your contention that the bomb was for Joe Stalin is absolutely wrong. We dropped the bomb to save the lives of our soldiers as well as the lives of the Japanese. Harry made the decision, no one else and it was a good humanitarian decision.

I agree that was the primary motivation, and that Truman made the right call. But sending a message to Stalin was also on the table. It was clear from the discussions at the summits that the Soviets and the Western allies were jockeying for position in the post-war world.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were relatively undamaged from the previous waves of bombing -- they were chosen as targets rather than, say, Tokyo, because it made a more effective demonstration of the power of the Bomb. The Japanese leadership was the primary, but not the only, audience. What Truman did not know was how thoroughly compromised the Manhattan Project was, and that the Soviets would have the bomb themselves in only a few years.

31 posted on 09/25/2006 2:49:42 PM PDT by ReignOfError
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To: TChris; Mister Politics

http://www.waszak.com/japanww2.htm


32 posted on 09/25/2006 2:57:55 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: TexanToTheCore

My dad was a marine on a troop ship in the Pacific massing for the invasion when the bombs ended the war. It would have been his first, and I'm sure his last, combat.


33 posted on 09/25/2006 2:58:31 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: PageMarker
Japan was seeking terms of surrender at the time.

Debatable. Certainly there were elements in the civilian leadership and diplomatic corps who saw the writing on the wall and wanted to find a way out for Japan, but the military was in control of everything, including all the channels of communication. They (Ithe civilians and diplomats) had made a very tenuous peace overture for the Russians to relay to the Americans, but the Russians basically stalled on them while gearing up for their own invasion of China, Korea, etc., When the Japanese military got wind of it, I believe they arrested the people who had reached out. What few peace signals reached the Americans were so obtusely worded and so buried in a thousand "to the last man, woman and child" messages that they were simply ignored.

34 posted on 09/25/2006 2:58:36 PM PDT by Heyworth
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To: SlowBoat407
Japan formally surrendered to the United Nations September 2, 1945, and World War II was over.

Huh?

---
You have much to learn about history, grasshopper.

On this particular point, start here.

DECLARATION BY UNITED NATIONS
35 posted on 09/25/2006 3:11:57 PM PDT by Cheburashka (World's only Spatula City certified spatula repair and maintenance specialist!!!)
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To: pabianice

I read a fictional account of the invasion once. The book was titled 'downfall' I believe and was written by a army general.


36 posted on 09/25/2006 3:16:15 PM PDT by wildbill
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To: pabianice

The US was also seriously considering the use of chemical munitions in the invasion and a shipload of mustard gas was already in the Pacific theater.


37 posted on 09/25/2006 3:27:12 PM PDT by The Great RJ ("Mir wölle bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: Catholic Iowan; TexanToTheCore; reagan_fanatic; Crazy Jim

Ditto.

My father was a C-47 navigator. His squadron was training to carry paratroopers for the invasion.


38 posted on 09/25/2006 3:36:50 PM PDT by Cheburashka (World's only Spatula City certified spatula repair and maintenance specialist!!!)
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To: ReignOfError

I once knew a woman whose family was moved from Iwo Jima to Okinawa. Her brother was drafted and never heard from again. Her 7 year old sister killed herself and a group of Marines during the invasion of Okinawa with a grenade given to her by Japanese troops.

At that time, the only thing to do was kill them all and let God sort them out.


39 posted on 09/25/2006 3:38:28 PM PDT by stumpy
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To: ReignOfError

If you want to get a real insight into the mind of the Japanese war machine during WWII and increase your understanding of what we were up against read

"The Rape of Nanking"

It seems impossible that humans could be so cruel, but it happened just as the book describes.

It is a really good argument for the 2nd amendment.


40 posted on 09/25/2006 3:38:35 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore (This space for hire...)
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To: reagan_fanatic; TexanToTheCore; Dems_R_Losers

Me too. My dad was on a ship in the Pacific en route to the Japanese mainland when they dropped it.

No "maybe" about it for me, I would NEVER have been born.


41 posted on 09/25/2006 3:48:55 PM PDT by oprahstheantichrist
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To: Bon mots
Exactly. "All we are saayying, is give nukes a chance"
42 posted on 09/25/2006 3:55:48 PM PDT by Ragnar54
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To: Mister Politics
"Does anyone have the link?"

Look at the date. No internet in 1987.

43 posted on 09/25/2006 4:00:13 PM PDT by oprahstheantichrist
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To: SlowBoat407
The official name of the anti-Axis alliance was the United Nations. Not the same organization as was formed in 1945.
44 posted on 09/25/2006 4:04:39 PM PDT by GAB-1955 (being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the Kingdom of Heaven....)
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To: TexanToTheCore
My dad's father was a gunnery officer on the Cruiser Cleveland and my dad's mother's father was a surgeon in US 3rd Army in Europe. He was about to be sent to the Pacific. They were both thrilled with "The Bomb."
45 posted on 09/25/2006 4:17:39 PM PDT by TWfromTEXAS (We are at war - Man up or Shut up.)
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To: pabianice
Here's a link: 1987.
46 posted on 09/25/2006 4:18:43 PM PDT by decimon
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To: Heyworth
Imperial General Headquarters planned to sequester the Emperor effective upon the British amphibious assault on southwestern Malaya, which the British planned for late September 1945. That would also have been when the orders would have gone out to massacre all Allied POW's, interned civilians, and any other Allied civilians Japanese forces could catch in China and all of Southeast Asia (Malaya, the Dutch East Indies, any Phillipine islands still held by the Japanese, etc.).

Check out the reference to Field Marshal Terauchi (CinC of the Japanese army group - Southern Group of Armies) in the index of George Feifer's Tennozan: The Battle of Okinawa and the Atomic Bomb. Allied signals intelligence (MAGIC) intercepted and decoded the late July 1945 order from Imperial GHQ to Terauchi to prepare for this.

47 posted on 09/25/2006 4:30:07 PM PDT by Thud
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To: Fiddlstix; 91B; HiJinx; Spiff; MJY1288; xzins; Calpernia; clintonh8r; TEXOKIE; windchime; ...
Yet the LEFT will never admit to the facts.
48 posted on 09/25/2006 4:47:11 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: samadams2000
One thing that irritates me about many air-power advocates is that they leave the impression that the A-bombs, by them selves, caused Japan to surrender. As this article makes clear the Japanese high command knew that an invasion was planned. Also occurring in roughly the same time period were Soviet invasions of Manchuria, fire bombings of many Japanese cities, and the 5th(?) fleet was destroying anything along the east coast that was judged worthy of sending in a sortie.

I think it unlikely at best that any one of these activities in isolation would have caused the Japanese to surrender.
49 posted on 09/25/2006 4:50:20 PM PDT by Fraxinus
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To: pabianice

Pingu desu.


50 posted on 09/25/2006 5:12:15 PM PDT by Zetman (I believe the children are the next generation.)
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