Posted on 10/07/2006 6:40:10 AM PDT by NYer
Thanks tons for your encouragement. We need all that we can share hereon! LOL.
I appreciate your posts, too.
Your comments make good sense. Thanks.
I've found most Lutherans I've gotten close to, to be very earnest Believers and wonderful human beings. Easy to love.
Certainly the Charismatic Lutherans I've known have been that way. And, I've been honored to facilitate some of the former becoming some of the latter.
There's more than one verse about tongues.
And, the sort of phenomenon you describe about inner circles--
I'VE OBSERVED THAT IN EVERY DENOMINATION I'VE EVER BEEN AROUND EVEN AS AN OBSERVER.
That IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP stuff is a psychodynamic/sociological fact of human life--especially where the congregation is not shepherded by a wise, humble, anointed leader and such is allowed to go on.
To some degree, there will always be an inner group.
PETER, JAMES AND JOHN were such with Jesus. Folks who give more of themselves, lay more of themselves on the altar tend to be more intimate with God and vice versa.
The issue is not so much an inner circle--the issue is how permeable--closed/open is it; how balanced is it; how humble is it; how healthy is it; what's the criteria for membership based on etc.
I could likely, given enough observation time, point to very deadly, haughty, exclusive etc. inner circles in probably more than 80% of the congregations in the USA of any denomination.
I have been a Penticostal for about 60 years. You should only speak for yourself. I resent you poor taste of thought.
I stated a historical fact.
You're dodging oblique by taking my original reply out of context and attempting to allegate it as an attack on "authentic Biblical Christianity/Pentecostalism".
"It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so"...Heinlein
= = = =
No, it was the context of the original reply that conveyed the meaning I replied to.
Underestimating Holy Spirit's capacity to "blow where He wishes" is a majro flaw in Heinlein's very biased assumptions/observations. His hostility to Christianity is not particularly new information.
THE CREATIVE, SPONTANEOUS FORCE IN THE UNIVERSE is not about to be legislated into anything.
Small, stereotypic, narro, rigid, biased little tidy boxed perspectives of that sort will likely never be able to . . . encompass HIS CREATIVITY OR SPONTANEITY.
Thanks tons.
Been around a long time in a wide diversity of congregations from traditional AoG to about every other kind. Few seem to get it right or if they do--to get it right more than a few weeks or months running.
I've observed that God is NOT STATIC though He's the same yesterday, today and forever.
HE'S VERY DYNAMIC and persistently stretches, challenges, heals, matures, enlarges, provokes unto love and good works . . . individuals and groups who dare to cooperate with Him.
Excellent comment.
Sadly, such comments used to be 95% of the posts on such a thread.
THANKS FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTION.
I think I was unclear.
The poor taste sorts of comments you were replying to used to be 95% of the posts on such threads.
Through my life I've found that God does speak to those willing to listen. I can't number the times when I've been feeling lost or down, only to be picked back up by a messenger of God who "just happens" to cross my path (I don't believe in chance). God has placed His Word in front of me many many times, and I rarely miss His Word. That is why I try to provide for others what God has placed before me. I try to be a testament to His Word so that others may come to Him.
You have captured precisely the definition of living a spirit filled life. It is such a difference from studying His Word via head knowledge. It is good and we can grasp some good points and directives, and it does impact your life. However, it doesn't compare to living a life where His Word comes alive through a true revelation of the Spirit. It is not about speaking in tongues, it is about a minute by minute life infusing relationship with the God who created the universe but lives in our hearts. It is about laying down our lives to the point where it is no longer "about me", but it is all about allowing Christ to live through me.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
Have often been super amazed, incredulous . . .
naysayers like to rant that [paraphrased] when John the Beloved ran out of ink at the end of Revelation, God quit speaking to individuals directly and only speaks via the printed Scriptures, period. No Holy Spirit beyond having birthed the Scriptures.
Yet, I know of few Christians who have NOT had the expreience of a verse of Scripture jump off the page highlighted vividly and emotionally by Holy Spirit in answer to an intense burden that had been a matter of recent prayer for some time.
There's nothing functionally that different
from Holy Spirit highlighting a Scripture as a specific pointed answer to a specific prayer
vs
Holy Spirit speaking directly to the inner man in God's still small voice; through tongues and interpretation; through a prophetically gifted person.
But they rarely see the connection.
You have captured precisely the definition of living a spirit filled life. It is such a difference from studying His Word via head knowledge. It is good and we can grasp some good points and directives, and it does impact your life. However, it doesn't compare to living a life where His Word comes alive through a true revelation of the Spirit. It is not about speaking in tongues, it is about a minute by minute life infusing relationship with the God who created the universe but lives in our hearts. It is about laying down our lives to the point where it is no longer "about me", but it is all about allowing Christ to live through me.
= = = =
I think you put it better.
God walked with Adam in The Garden. Christ died that we might return to individual dialogue, unity, fellowship with THE FATHER. He sent His Spirit to facilitate that moment by moment . . .
then being human . . . we pollute it until we feel COMFORTABLE with stereotyped, scripted RELIGION. WE beg the RELIGIOUS EXPERTS to DO IT FOR US as they begged Moses to speak to God directly as it was too hard for them to handle directly.
Sigh. God must weep a lot.
I thank God for the gifts He has given to me, and I pray that I am worthy.
AMEN.
But, I think . . .
we are . . . according to Christ--and who are we to argue. HE DECLARES US WORTH HIS DEATH.
and
we aren't and can never be, in our own strength, worthy.
THANKFULLY, HE MAKES US WORTHY. He does ask us to cooperate as best we can! LOL.
Amen...what a moment of relief it was when I finally learned that I could never be smart enough, beautiful enough, strong enough, good enough, work hard enough, etc. and that was exactly the way he created me...to need Him.
I think you've got it!
There but for the Grace of God, go I. I am nothing without Him.
what a moment of relief it was when I finally learned that I could never be smart enough, beautiful enough, strong enough, good enough, work hard enough, etc. and that was exactly the way he created me...to need Him.
= = =
In the words of the recent PK conference . . .
YUP! YUP!
Thanks.
Just so I HAVE HIM or better . . . that HE HAS ALL OF ME.
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