Posted on 10/12/2006 10:09:23 AM PDT by freemarket_kenshepherd
ahhhh thats his job pastor / elder.
"
I don't really see how. What does a church need besides a Bible and someone who can read it?"
uh land for the building, money to pay the water bill etc.
Most small churches operate on relatively small budgets. Adding significant property taxes and even income taxes would kill them.
"It takes only ten tithing adults to support the lead pastor (elder), ten more to support the meeting place, ten more to begin missions. If your church is not tithing and fails because you are now paying taxes, there are other problems not associated with tax exemption."
Ok now come back to reality.
As I said earlier, given that thanks to shield laws and court decisions on defamation law (not to mention the First Amendment), the press has a rather extensive "benefit of clergy" of its very own, I find the Times' decision to go after religious organizations...droll, putting it mildly.
I am curious as to what you mean by getting back to reality.
Right now, tax-exempts are subject to tax for UBTI (Unreleated business taxable income). Basically, this means that while tax-exempts can invest in companies, and get capital gains, dividends and interest (as long as the company isn't a pass through like an LLC). What a tax-exempt cannot do is operate a business directly, without a corporate shell (well, it can, but this becomes subject to income taxes according to the UBTI statutes).
The reason for this is suppose Harvard University decided it would opeate a computer company and compete with Dell. If it could do this on a tax-free basis, Dell couldn't compete. Dell needs to pay property tax, income tax, etc. So if the operation isn't central to your non-profit's mission, then you cannot operate outside of the UBTI statutes.
Some of the examples in the NYT article seemed like they should be subject to the UBTI, like a condo complex for wealthy seniors. But maybe not: it depends on who qualifies for the housing, etc. Perhaps the UBTI needs to be a bit more strongly adhered to...
> ahhhh thats his job pastor / elder.
If the church is small, it's not much of a job.
>> What does a church need besides a Bible and someone who can read it?"
> uh land for the building...
What building? Remember, we're talking "small church" here... so what's wrong with "living room" or "back yard with a tent" or some such?
> Adding significant property taxes and even income taxes would kill them.
*I* operate on a small budget. Do *I* get a property/income tax exemption because I work in the defense industry?
> What does he do monday thru saturday???????
What does everyone else do Monday through Saturday?
I've known quite a number of preachers who hold down real jobs.
"I am curious as to what you mean by getting back to reality."
Churches are filled with non-tithing people. All those people consume resources which require money. People should tithe but immature christians and visitors typically do not.
None of which addresses the point. The power to tax is the power to destroy. There are several churches in my area on land that has greatly appreciated in value due to growth in the area. The property taxes for the land would force them to close the doors.
> There are several churches in my area on land that has greatly appreciated in value due to growth in the area. The property taxes for the land would force them to close the doors.
Only *after* selling at a substantial profit.
Come on. How many people or companies do you see who are trully saddened that their property has appreciated in value?
The New York Times has been on an anti-religion jihad this week with three front page negative articles in a row.
Take away the ACLU tax exempt status and I would then care just a microgram about churches tax exempt status.
"Come on. How many people or companies do you see who are trully saddened that their property has appreciated in value?"
There are MANY here in florida. People who's houses are paid off but are still paying $1000 a month for taxes.
One particular business here just shut down after 70 some years in operation. Their primary reason was the increase in taxes.
And remember what you are saying, you are saying its a good thing to FORCE people to sell their homes and businesses to pay TAXES.
> People who's houses are paid off but are still paying $1000 a month for taxes.
If they can't afford it there, why live there? Go somewhere cheaper.
> And remember what you are saying, you are saying its a good thing to FORCE people to sell their homes and businesses to pay TAXES
Well, if Churches would hold up their end, then taxes wouldn't need to be so high. But as it is, there is an unethical and indefensible inequity in the system.
The perfect solution woudl be to trash the current tax system and start from scratch. I favor a "consumption tax." Nobody gets out of paying that, unless they don't buy stuff. In a consumption tax system, people pay the taxes they *want* to pay. No exemptions for yachts, Yugos, hamburgers, porn or Bibles.
"Well, if Churches would hold up their end, then taxes wouldn't need to be so high. But as it is, there is an unethical and indefensible inequity in the system."
unethical and indefensible?
"In a consumption tax system, people pay the taxes they *want* to pay. No exemptions for yachts, Yugos, hamburgers, porn or Bibles."
Very simplistic.
> unethical and indefensible?
You damned betcha. Taxing one group but not another, based on really sketchy warm-and-fuzzy reasons? Bad, bad policy.
> Very simplistic.
You got a better tax system, let's see it.
'You damned betcha. Taxing one group but not another, based on really sketchy warm-and-fuzzy reasons? Bad, bad policy."
Very very short sighted. Tax policy has always been used to control behavior and exert power. That is why the founders set it up for churches to be tax exempt.
And the reasons really arent all that warm and fuzzy. Churches provide lots of benefits to society on many levels. You appear to just hate churches.
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