Posted on 10/12/2006 10:59:52 PM PDT by Simi Valley Tom
A group of self-described "progressive" Christian evangelicals calling themselves "Red Letter Christians," and led by the left-oriented Sojourners magazine and left-oriented religious pundits like Jim Wallis and Tony Campolo, has recently emerged in the body politic. These self-proclaimed "progressives" have been making a lot of noise recently complaining about the ties that other Christian evangelicals have long held with the conservative movement in the United States, including the conservative movement in the Republican Party.
One policy under attack by these "progressives" is the conservative effort to "cut programs to the poor." They say that such a policy goes against Jesus Christ's commands in chapter 24 of the book of Matthew to feed those who are hungry.
These "Red Letter Christians" are making a lot of noise, but they are just a bunch of clanging cymbals – and the love that they claim to spout has no truth in it whatsoever.
What these misguided religious zealots conveniently fail to note is that nowhere in the New Testament or the other books of the Bible do Jesus Christ, His apostles, God the Father, the Holy Spirit, Moses or the Hebrew prophets command the government to take money from its citizens and transfer it to poor people. In fact, the Bible says just the opposite.
God presents us with three general ways in the Bible to take care of the poor and needy: 1) through the family; 2) through the church; and 3) through individual charity. The applicable passages for these three ways are Deuteronomy 14:28, 29, Numbers 18:24, Matthew 6:1-4 and 1 Timothy 5:3-16.
Now, the first two ways are pretty clear. People's first obligation is to the needy, poor, widowed and orphaned in their own families. Only after they do this do they have any obligation to help the needy, poor, widowed and orphaned through their local church organization. God established the pattern for this kind of church giving in Numbers 18:24 and Deuteronomy 14:28, 29. As David Chilton points out in his great book "Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt Manipulators," the bulk of Christian giving to the local church should be geared toward financing professional theologians, experts in biblical law and church discipline, teachers of God's word and leaders skilled in worship. It was only every third year that all the giving was set aside to help the needy, poor, widowed and orphaned. Even then, the money was not given just to anyone who showed up. Those able to work but don't do not qualify for help. Also, those who have families to take care of them don't qualify, nor do widows under age 60 qualify, according to the Apostle Paul in 1 Timothy 5:3-16.
Jesus Christ, who is God in the flesh, talks about the third way in Matthew 6. He tells His listeners that they should give individual charity. He also says they should give such charity secretly: "Do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing."
In other words, Jesus is not a socialist. Nor is he a liberal. In fact, in none of the Bible passages just cited, nor in any others I know of, does Jesus, God or even Moses cite the government as the means by which the poor, needy, widowed and orphaned are housed, clothed and fed.
Thus, a simple, straightforward reading of the Bible, God's Word, including the "Red Letter" words of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, clearly shows that the American welfare state is anti-Christian and unbiblical. Any Christian who advocates such a government welfare system (including clergymen or women) should be harshly rebuked. Furthermore, any members of any political party, including Republicans, Democrats, Reform Party members, Libertarians or whatever, who advocate such a socialist system yet claim to be Christian should be reprimanded by their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ and by all church leaders.
If any such party members refuse to repent and change their ways, then their names should be posted at their church and throughout the whole land so that all Christians in the United States can know not to vote for these people or place them in positions of authority and leadership. Of course, all Christians should encourage families to take care of their own. And they should also encourage their churches to give at least one-third of their gross income to help the poor, needy, widowed and orphaned.
On that note, it is interesting to recall that the 10th Commandment in Exodus 20:17 actually protects private property by commanding people not to covet their neighbor's house or belongings. That commands applies to the average citizen as well as the elected official, the judge and all other government officials.
Furthermore, the Bible condemns laziness and praises hard work. Proverbs 10:4 says, "Lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring wealth." Proverbs 14:23 says, "All hard work brings a profit, but mere talk leads only to poverty."
Finally, it is interesting to note that, in Mark 7:20-23, not only does Jesus Christ declare that all sex outside of heterosexual marriage, including homosexuality, pre-marital sex and adultery, is evil, he also declares that both greed and envy are evil. Thus, Jesus Christ condemns both the greed of the rich man as well as the greed of the poor man, and the envy of the poor man as well as the envy of the rich man.
Thus, God condemns the politics of envy of the left, and he extols the virtues of hard work and capitalism, not just the value of charity!
Liberals and socialists like the "Red Letter Christians," Sen. Hillary Clinton, Sen. Ted Kennedy and former Vice President Al Gore are violating the commands of Jesus Christ, who is God in the Flesh. They are also violating the commands that God gives all of us in the Hebrew Scriptures as well. If they truly want to follow the words of Jesus in the New Testament, they should stop their opposition to the real Christian movement in America and join it. One of the first things they should do immediately is help cut government programs for the poor.
Christians must stop the ungodly, immoral rape of American citizens with the totalitarian, socialist welfare state! They must establish a proper and godly system of family, church and private charity. Not just Christians, but all true Americans should follow God's clear guidance in this matter. God will reward us mightily for our obedience in these matters.
Que the Ron Brown Funeral video.
That's Campolo walking beside Clinton having a great ol' time when all of a sudden Clinton notices a camera aimed at him and reaches up to wipe away a tear.
Campolo was also one of Bill's "spiritual advisors" during the impeachment process. What a guy.
I've been to a conference where Campolo was the keynote speaker. Had a great message and delivery, but his politics suck.
bump
We will always have the poor.
"God will reward us mightily for our obedience in these matters."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
and....God will hold me accountable some day for how I did vote.
(Which is the ONLY reason I will hold my nose and vote Repub this time around.)
Living in the Central Valley of California around harvest time, sometimes little things brighten my spirit. There are still growers that allow gleaning of their crops by the poor after harvest. Some farmers still leave produce in unattended stands trusting those that can pay will, and those that cannot pay will take only what they need. Some growers even leave a sign to that effect. Often they include some Biblical reference on their roadside sign. Having seen miserably poor take only what they need, and knowing the farmer allowed this blessed me twice as a witness to what God intended.
As far as what the Bible gave as instructions for attending to the poor and what the Constitution allows, it must be remembered no matter how strong the faith of the authors of the Constitution, they failed to include any mention of relying upon the Bible in settling matters. It is a secular document, even if our forefathers were not.
It should also be mentioned the phrase "promote the General Welfare", found in the preamble, is at the core of the welfare debate. Unlike the houses of Congress that are fully defined within the Constitution, no definition of welfare was included in the Constitution.
This is the same "bugaboo" about slavery being mentioned in the Bible. God didn't say we should own slaves. He was talking to Christians that did, about how to treat them if they had them. He also talked to Christian slaves on how they should serve their masters. Slavery was a fact of life, and still is in some places.
For justice and mercy, we should prefer "REAL" Christians as leaders( as opposed to pretenders), but our nations laws are not connected to God or the Bible unless through the heart of the person in government. God would and did frown on theft by taxation, but we were told to pay it if required. The point is, the Bible doesn't require taxes, it requires tithing.
Now about those pretenders. The Holy Spirit gives believers discernment. We are supposed to know that puncturing a baby's skull and sucking the brains out is wrong. We are supposed to realize that if God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and mentioned homosexuality was wrong about 50 times in the Bible, that He was against homosexuality. He specifically mentions adultery, fornication, lying, stealing, false gods, etc, many times. When you hear from earth worshipers, that murder babies and want to force homosexuality on you as they did in Sodom against the angels, you are required to know that person is a pretender. If they think adultery, fornication and lying is OK because everybody does it, well, you are supposed to know better. We may disagree amongst the differing denominations about some things, but I think most of us should agree that killing your baby is wrong and homosexuality is an abomination before God. They are making inroads, however, when they convince people that adultery is OK, stealing tax money is OK, and worshiping the creature rather than the creator is the way to go.
The bottom line is, if I see someone freezing and hungry, as a Christian, I should help them. There is nothing in the Bible that says I should direct them to the welfare office and keep walking. That makes government a god, and blasphemes God's Holy people. If I can tax witches and other non-believers to get help for a poor person, then what good is the church?
What will be the reaction of the Church if the pope or some other leader like Pat Robertson or Fallwell says to the flock that homo marriage is OK, or abortion is sanctioned by God? It is our job to know the difference. It is the same with your neighbor or a politician. Why would I believe a politician is a believer if they vote for abortions? If my pastor said in his sermon that God ordains homosexual marriage, then either he leaves, or I leave, there can be no compromise on the Truth of the Bible. It's the same with a political party. We may differ on a border fence or support for NASA, but I don't see any daylight for abortion or homosexuality. If he says he is a Christian, he is a liar, it's that simple.
We will always have the poor.
True. Doesn't mean we shouldn't do something about it though.
They can't even get the meaning of church and state right. It's the church's responsibility, not the government, to take care of the needy and downtrodden. True Christians want to help "set the captives free" through Christ, and his liberating Holy Spirit, while the government wants to "keep the captives enslaved" in the welfare state. Both the church and the state have failed miserably in living up to Christ's ideals. But that is all going to change, as the Kingdoms of this world become the Kingdom of our God. And for one thousand years we will see what life was meant to be like under a Godly and just government. And then at the end of the thousand years, those who miss the days when satan ran the world, will have one last chance to follow the devil into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20 spells it out.
Bump. Thanks for sharing that wisdom here.
Some would argue that if the church had done its job, no one would have felt the need to get the government involved.
I agree that it's the church's job, and I would contend it's because of church members such as the one who wrote the article above ("Yeah, Jesus said we should help the poor and downtrodden, but he didn't mean *all* of them, and we don't have to do it *all* the time" is what it appears he's saying) that the church wasn't doing its job to begin with.
One of the real problems with socialism is that it places personal responsibility in the hands of the state. If it's government's job to be charitable instead of the individual, then socialists will think that morality is a "collective" concept. Likewise, any immoral act done by government is no longer a concern of the individual, but society as a whole. In short, socialism removes one's requirement to be a moral individual. Charity and cruelty belong to the state, safely removing the loyal socialist from any personal responsibility. Wholesale slaughter of an inferior race, for example, becomes nobody's fault.
Jesus is not a socialist, he is a monarchist.
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.
We will always have the poor.
True. Doesn't mean we shouldn't do something about it though.
But it does mean that there is no way to wipe it out as socialism purports to do.
DC Chapter short list ping
What ever happened to God helps them who help themselves.
Yes there will always be the poor. But, as a nation we have helped to feed the poor all over the world.
We have programs here in the USA that help those so they
won't go hungry.
You can led the masses to water but,you can't make them
drink!!
[Mrs T]
Yeah. How's that old sayin' go? Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. But you can't tune a fish. Or teach him to play the piano or somethin' like that.
LOL you are a trip!!
[Mrs T]
Thank you for this most excellent ping Buford!!!
You are sooooo welcome!
Amen to everything you said.
You are confusing government confiscation with Christian charity. The two are not alike. Read 2 Corinthians 9&10, in which St. Paul is making the case for charity among Christians, but rejects the idea that it should be coerced. "God loves a cheerful giver." Taxes just don't inspire many to good cheer, especially when they see the enormous waste by government that go along with tax confiscation.
You are so right.
Thanks for the ping. This is the heart of the socialism argument.
Over and Out
I always find it amusing to find the godless leftist democrat libs making reference to Christ to support their socialist programs. Perhaps a separation of church and state argument would be a fitting response from the conservative side.
The problem with poverty programs is not that they help the poor-- they do, in the short run. Then the programs become "entitlements" and not relief-- a substitute for self-sufficiency, and a poison to the poor.
Everything you said is right on the money, but just to pick nits, this statement is basically off. As a Christian, you are required to be moral, even if you are a communist. God expects certain attributes from His people, even under the most trying circumstances. That is why the "I was ordered to do it by my superiors", doesn't work in a crimes trial. Even if you have been imprisoned, you are supposed to act morally as an example of your Master. If you are a Christian PRETENDER, then the statement would be true. That is how the Dems can go to church every Sunday and claim Christ while voting for abortion and homosexuality, because it's "the law". They somehow feel that fixes it. Read the last few verses in Romans I and it will say that just allowing and aproving sinfull acts are the same as doing them. Reminds me of the conservatives and libertarians that say "Abortion isn't right for me, but I don't want to force someone else to believe as I do." Then you realy don't believe it's wrong to murder.
No, I'm not. Go re-read my post carefully. You seem to have missed my entire point.
your criticism is well taken; I know i'm missing something, just can't put my finger on it. But maybe I should further refine my point: Socialism and Christianity are mutually exclusive philosophies. You can pretend to be a socialist to avoid being one of the "purged", but you won't really believe in it if you are a Christian. Christians generally believe that there is a higher authority than the human one, and at best government is a necessary evil to be limited in power as much as possible. Communism is blatantly anti-religious, and socialism to a lesser degree (if only philisophically). It's interesting, as you said, it can go the other way around too: socialists can pretend to be Chistian to serve their immediate goals. Very true.
A Christian Communist. . .now there's an oxymoron if I ever saw one.
I'm not sure if it's what you are trying to say or not, but I've always felt that the problem with the welfare state is that it seems to take the obligation of charity away from the individual donor.
If the government is "taking care of" the poor, we as individuals, or as churches, don't see the same need as we did when there was no one else to do it (and sometimes we feel we've "already given" through our taxes), and we frequently seem to do less of it as a result.
Because of this, I feel the welfare state is harmful not only to the recipients, but to the would-be donors, because it depersonalizes the giving.
"it seems to take the obligation of charity away from the individual donor"
Just that. If the government takes full responsibility for our charity, so that we don't have to bother with it anymore, who knows what else it will take responsibility for. Collective responsibility is a two-edged sword.
Yes, but many do agree "with good" cheer that their taxes go to caring for the poor. So I guess it's a matter of who is in the majority.
Besides, I've seen taxes "wasted" on less noble causes.
How does directing needy people to Govt programs designed to help them, making govt "a god"?
Do YOU become "a god" when you give to them?
First of all, if you live in a place like Philly, you as an individual will not be capable of feeding or clothing all the needy people you see...unless you are a billionaire.
Secondly it makes no sense that those who are hungry and in need should have to wait for YOU to happen to walk by them BEFORE they get some assistance.
It amazes me that people who claim to be so committed to Christian values of helping the disadvantaged and hungry, somehow are angry that their tax dollars should ever go towards such causes.
It makes no sense.
What you are observing about churches is EXACTLY the reason we have state charity today. What I am saying is the churches HAVE FAILED in their mission, or we wouldn't be talking about this now. The church started out helping the poor. Now it has shirked its duty to the point even Christians believe the state should be doing the people of God's job.
The directing of people to the source of their help ( government) takes the glory from God, the supplier of ALL OUR NEEDS. If the government is relied on to do God's job, God loses glory and worship, and the state will therefore fail. I don't become a god when I help someone, but I am His representative here on Earth. The Bible says I am a prince and a priest and a son of the living God. How do I glorify my Father if I say the welfare office is what you really need?
A smart man once told me to look at my finances to see who I really worship. I found I worshiped the government with nearly half of my money going there and second was Wal Mart. A distant 3rd was the church. The only reason it was 3rd instead of 4th was my truck was paid for or it would have been GM 3rd, followed by the church.
I am not angry that my tax dollars go to some charity, I am angry that the church isn't doing what it was designed to do. Over 80% of the population says they are Christian. Why are there any poor in this country if that's true. Couldn't someone at your church hire them, give them a sandwich, or a warm jacket? It doesn't have to be you, but it should be someone. Also there are non monetary gifts that count. Is there anyone in your community that needs a ride to the store once a week, or their lawn mowed? You can give without having money.
Very good point.
It's all about Christ and His glory. Everything is about Him and for Him. Never forget the spirit of Anti-Christ has roamed the Earth for eons. To substitute government for God is as old as the Earth. Every government, save ours, has had their rulers that made themselves gods. Our founders used to say, "No king but King Jesus". We have forgotten that. If you go to China, or any other communist country today, the first thing they teach is there is no God. That makes the government the source for the people's needs. You will serve them or die.
One thing you might want to consider is that fact that this is supposed to be govt "for the people by the people".
Therefore what is OUR purpose legitimately can become the GOVT's purpose, and there is nothing wrong with that.
One of the reasons I dislike the song "Kneeling" by Bob Halligan Jr. & Linda Halligan
You ask me what I think of the war
You ask me what I think it was for
You ask me what I think of our policies
My position- my only position is
Kneeling- my position is
Kneeling- my position is kneeling
You ask me what I think of the Right
You ask me what I think of what’s Left
You ask me what I think of your certainties
My position- my only position is
Kneeling- my position is
Kneeling- my position is kneeling
You say I must stand up- for what I believe
But when I stand up- well I’m down on my knees
I’m kneeling- my position is
Kneeling- my position is kneeling"
Jesus wasn't a mushy guy. He had a lot of positions, and they weren't all kneeling. When we see hunger, or injustice, or evil - we need to pray, but we also need to DO something. We are called to feed the hungry, not government. And we ARE expected to use discernment, so our efforts aren't wasted.
Except the government cannot use discernment. The poor may be misfortunate, or they may be drug addicts. We can trust our safety to the 'goodness of human nature', or admit humans are fallen creatures inclined to do evil - and take steps to defend ourselves and our families.
The church can make sure the charity goes where it is useful.
I know what you mean. But from what I've seen the Church can fall into the same traps as govt and the individual attempting to help the poor.
Unless there is one on one personal contact with the recipient, you could be just enabling them to continue in the same self-destructive behavior that keeps them in need.
Umm... does anyone else see what's wrong with this post? It was not CARL Marx...
It was Groucho.
Mark 6:
35 When the day was now far spent, His disciples came to Him and said, “This is a deserted place, and already the hour is late.
Send them away, that they may go into the surrounding country and villages and buy themselves bread;[e] for they have nothing to eat.”
37 But He answered and said to them, “You give them something to eat.”
And they said to Him, “Shall we go and buy two hundred denarii worth of bread and give them something to eat?”
38 But He said to them, “How many loaves do you have? Go and see.”
And when they found out they said, “Five, and two fish.”
39 Then He commanded them to make them all sit down in groups on the green grass. 40 So they sat down in ranks, in hundreds and in fifties. 41 And when He had taken the five loaves and the two fish, He looked up to heaven, blessed and broke the loaves, and gave them to His disciples to set before them; and the two fish He divided among them all. 42 So they all ate and were filled. 43 And they took up twelve baskets full of fragments and of the fish. 44 Now those who had eaten the loaves were about[f] five thousand men.
They're more likely to get that from the Church than from the government. The Church can help them find the spiritual strength to deal with temptation. The government will just keep it out of their reach, at gunpoint if necessary. It keeps them from engaging in the self-destructive behaviour without requiring any spiritual discipline on their part.
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