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Doctor: Abortion is Unnecessary, There are other life-preserving options, even in life-and-health
Dakota Voice ^ | 10.16.06 | Dr. Don Oliver

Posted on 10/20/2006 9:42:13 PM PDT by Coleus

I have been a pediatrician in Rapid City for 26 years now. During those 26 years it has been my job and privilege to attend the births of many infants whose pregnancies were complicated in various ways: prematurety, infections, toxemia, multiple births among many others. My job is to care for the infant and give him or her the best chance at a whole and satisfying life. Sadly medical technology and my own skills have not always been up to the task, but the intent was to give the baby the best care available.

I want to tell you from a medical perspective that it is very, very rare that a physician would need to choose between the life of the mother and the life of the child. There is almost always something that can be done for both. This has always been traditional obstetric practice. We now can do amazing things with fetal medicine. Diagnoses are being made earlier and earlier. Treatment interventions are being devised and implemented. Surgery is now being done on unborn babies while they are still in the womb, amazing. Why are all these incredible things being done? Because all life is precious and God given. All children deserve the life that God has planned for him in His infinite wisdom.

Our opponents in this campaign would have you belief that if the law banning abortions in South Dakota is upheld doctors will go to jail and women in South Dakota will be left with no health care. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Currently no South Dakota doctors do abortions; therefore no South Dakota doctors would be prosecuted under HB1215 when it is upheld. The only abortions done in South Dakota are done by 4 physicians from Minneapolis brought in to SF by Planned Parenthood. The bill also specifically protects physicians doing a legitimate medical procedure to save a woman’s life. It protects doctors doing a legitimate procedure where something goes wrong and a baby is inadvertently harmed. South Dakota physicians and South Dakota women have nothing to fear from this legislation.

The overwhelming number of abortions done in South Dakota and across our nation are done for expediency or convenience. They are done on perfectly healthy babies and perfectly healthy mothers. They are not done for rape, not done for incest, not done for fetal anomalies, and not done to save the life of the mother. They are done because a pregnant woman feels hopeless or helpless. We as a society and especially a Christian community need to seek out these women and be instruments of God’s grace and compassion.

I have in my practice now a 16 year old mother who was raped by her brother. So here we have in one case the two stumbling blocks that most people have with HB1215. She decided that the only innocent person in this unfortunate situation besides herself was her unborn child. What a brave decision for anyone to make, much less a traumatized 16 year old. I have great hope and faith that if a 16 year old can get it right so can the rest of South Dakotans.

The psychological literature is full of data indicating that abortion following a rape is more traumatic than the rape itself and leads to more long lasting emotional and psychological complications. We have interviewed many women who have told us their child has been the healing instrument from the trauma of the rape. And if it unfortunately happened to them again that they would make the same decision.

HB1215 does contain a specific provision for woman to receive emergency contraception following a sexual crime. We desire for them to receive complete and compassionate medical care and for them to receive justice. An abortion in theses situations is not compassionate and denies justice. An abortion in these situations causes long term harm for the mother and protects the rapist. Is this really what we want to do in South Dakota?

I have also over the years had the privilege of caring for many malformed, abnormal children whose lives were cut short or handicapped in human terms. Perfect in God’s plan, but not in our clouded viewpoint. NONE of the families that I have served, in these situations, have regretted their child’s life. They ALL celebrated and treasured something special in their child’s life, however brief. I have counted it a privilege by Gods grace to be involved with these families. I of course have some in my practice now. There are people who adopt children with special needs. I can think of several of them easily. In fact you will hear from one of these amazing persons soon. They are almost all Christian people who feel led by God to do this work, may God richly reward their faithfulness.

Surveys have shown that 80% of people agree that abortion is morally wrong; but, women in a crisis pregnancy don’t know where to turn or are frequently coerced. They are rejected by pro-life people for becoming pregnant and considering an abortion or having one, and not told the truth or had their feelings validated by the poor choice side. There have now been 45 to 50 million abortions done in our country. Therefore there are at least that many hurting women in our society. They are all someone’s daughter, mother, sister or aunt, sorority sister or best friend.

There are also an equal number of men who suffer in various ways. Perhaps they were the ones who coerced the abortion in the first place. If our countries population is around 300 million, think for a moment with me what a staggering toil this sin has extracted from our society. I have in the past pondered how many firemen, teachers, plumbers we have aborted over the years. How many priests and pastors, concert musicians and geniuses. How many ordinary working folks who comprise our society. I continue to ponder that from time to time.

But today I focus more of my attention on the millions of people who have been harmed psychologically by abortion. The lost wages and productivity. The depression and suicide. The child abuse and neglect. The substance abuse and addictions of all kinds. The lose of hope and happiness direction and purpose. The destruction of marriages and families. Oh what a burden our society carries for it’s sin. What an opportunity to be instruments of God’s healing grace. Please God let it start here in this state today. Let your grace and mercy go forth and heal our land. Whatever the results of the election may be. Abortion is not an unforgivable sin.

My pastor reminded me recently that Moses, David, and Paul all had something in common. They were each guilty of murder. Our Savior once had an encounter with a woman caught in the very act of adultery and deserving of stoning. Our savior did not condemn this woman for her sexual sin, in fact He specifically said I don’t condemn you, go and sin no more. I trust my brief comments have reassured you that even in complicated pregnancy cases there is something that can be medically done.

I believe this law protects the women and physicians of South Dakota. There is a provision in the bill to help victims of sexual crimes. The human costs in terms of suffering in our country are enormous .Several years ago I served in the army. There was a saying about the good soldier: The good soldier, the brave soldier was the one who when he heard the sounds of battle, he picked up his weapon and ran towards the sound. In the video you heard from such soldiers. Even though badly wounded they pickup their weapons and run towards the sound of battle.

We need an army of such soldiers as these. We need you. Martin Luther once said “If you are a Christian soldier, and if you are not were the battle is the hottest, you are a traitor to the cause”. I am a board member of VoteYesForLife.com, a coalition of people from all across South Dakota. We come from all the major political parties, from different denominations and walks of life. We are united in our desire to save babies and women from the harmful physical, emotional, and psychological effects of abortion. We desperately need your help.

We know this is God’s battle but He chooses to work thru His people. We need you to talk to your congregations, to preach God’s healing message of grace by which we all are saved. Those of us who are from the Reformed faith, all across the nation, will be fasting and praying on Sunday Nov. 5th . We need you to talk to friends, relatives, and neighbors. We need campaign volunteers. Listen…Listen…can you hear it? There is a battle raging for the hearts and minds of God’s people. Who among you will pickup your "weapons" and join us? Dr. Donald Oliver is a respected Rapid City pediatrician. He is also a board member of VoteYesForLife.com, and member of South Dakota Physicians for Life.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: South Dakota
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionlist; prolife
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To: syriacus
Another case of an "abortion" that removed no fetus from the woman's uterus....
The coroner blamed Sherry's death on the fact that Water Tower threw fetal remains away without a pathology analysis. However, the police found that Sherry had a reciept from Water Tower indicating a $50 discount. They hypothesized that staff might have noted the lack of a fetus in the aspirator, concluded that Sherry hadn't been pregnant, and given her a partial refund.

41 posted on 10/22/2006 11:06:58 AM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: syriacus
This article, from the link above, makes it sound like abortion isn't quite the "safe" procedure it is said to be.
The fact that the abortion specimen did not contain fetal parts should have indicated that Gladyss had an ectopic pregnancy. This condition is routinely treated by competent doctors, saving the lives of the mothers. But Ross missed his diagnosis and allowed Gladyss to leave his clinic with her life in danger.

It's very sad that it takes the death of a woman to reveal shoddy practices in an abortion clinic.

42 posted on 10/22/2006 11:12:04 AM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: syriacus
This poor woman's one ectopic pregnancy was missed 2 times, because she had an abortion
Not only did the abortionist fail to diagnose Yvette's ectopic pregnancy, but the fact that she'd had an abortion led to a misdiagnosis at the hospital

43 posted on 10/22/2006 11:26:18 AM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: syriacus
I pull together several of your posts to me, since the concept is the same:

The article you point to refer to an extremely rare situation: a twin pregnancy where one is intrauterine, the other is ectopic.

I thought it referred to instances where there was merely one preganancy --- in a tube.

The conclusion is a mistake, since the twin ectopic is equally overlooked often, in both situations (abortion or pregnancy intended to be carried to term).

I don't think they are referring to twin pregnancies.

One thing is for sure: to blame the undiagnosed twin ectopic on the abortion itself, is ridiculous.

You seem to be the only one mentioning twins.

Proper post-abortion pathology reports would detect that no embryo was removed from the uterus, and would clue the abortionist in to the fact that the pregnancy was ectopic.

I never went to medical school, but my math is okay.

1 fetus + 0 fetus = 1 fetus (not twins)

The coroner blamed Sherry's death on the fact that Water Tower threw fetal remains away without a pathology analysis. However, the police found that Sherry had a reciept from Water Tower indicating a $50 discount. They hypothesized that staff might have noted the lack of a fetus in the aspirator, concluded that Sherry hadn't been pregnant, and given her a partial refund.

It's very sad that it takes the death of a woman to reveal shoddy practices in an abortion clinic.


True, I didn't think of such gross malpractice. But this is an individual bad case, not the typical. Abortions are either done based on an existing ultrasound proven pregnancy, or if not, they send whatever they scraped out for pathology. Therefore, in case of an ectopic pregnancy, either and empty uterus is diagnosed before (if ultrasound), or no fetal tissue after (if pathology).

Since I am a gynecologist who is practicing for 27 years without any major problem (although I don't do abortions), it didn't even cross my mind that an abortionist would not identify the pregnancy neither before, nor after, that's why the also very rare twin pregnancy came to my mind, where one is intrauterine, the other is ectopic. Those are the tragic cases, since it is extremely difficult to diagnose. Ultrasound before doesn't help much, since once the intrauterine pregnancy is visualized, and there are no symptoms of ectopic (mostly pain), radiologists seldom search the Fallopian tubes for an ectopic. After the abortion, the pathologist will identify fetal tissue and that's the end of proper medical channels. Yet, an ectopic can continue to grow and later rupture.

Gabor
44 posted on 10/22/2006 2:03:59 PM PDT by Casio
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To: Casio
I pull together several of your posts to me, since the concept is the same:

Sorry about the number of posts.

It took me some time to gather my thoughts and to realize how thoroughly you dismissed this idea that abortions on women with ectopic pregnancies can lead to fatalities. I think it's understandable that I was taken aback. I have no medical background, and you say you have one, so I doubted what my own eyes told me the article actually said.

I can imagine that multiple pregnancies, such as you describe, in which one twin settles in the fallopian tube and the other settles in the uterus, are very rare.

It's important to make sure that everyone, especially the occasional slap-dash abortionist, is aware of the very real risks involved for women with ectopic pregnancies who seek abortions.

You wrote: One thing is for sure: to blame the undiagnosed twin ectopic on the abortion itself, is ridiculous.

45 posted on 10/23/2006 6:05:32 AM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: syriacus
This is interesting, even though it's highly unlikely that women who have a history of infertility would seek abortions from outside doctors
In some twin pregnancies, one embryo may implant in the uterus and the other may implant at an ectopic location. This rare event is called a heterotopic pregnancy and occurs more commonly in women undergoing some infertility treatments.[snip]

The incidence of ectopic pregnancy is higher in the infertility population, mostly due to the increased incidence of tubal abnormalities in these women. Fertility drugs also appear to alter tubal function by their effects on hormones and may be associated with the increased risk in this population.[snip]

IVF, a fertility treatment in which a woman's egg is fertilized outside the body and then placed in her uterus, is associated with an increased risk of both ectopic and heterotopic pregnancy.


46 posted on 10/23/2006 6:19:33 AM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: Casio
Abortions are either done based on an existing ultrasound proven pregnancy, or if not, they send whatever they scraped out for pathology

According to the articles I cited above....some of the women died because either the uterine contents were not sent out to a lab and/or the abortuary staff failed to notify the woman that there had been no fetus in her uterus.

47 posted on 10/23/2006 6:42:12 AM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: syriacus
According to the articles I cited above....some of the women died because either the uterine contents were not sent out to a lab and/or the abortuary staff failed to notify the woman that there had been no fetus in her uterus.

These are tragic cases. Unfortunately every year quite a few women dies in USA due to ruptured ectopic pregnancy. Regardless whether they had abortions or not.

The ectopic pregnancy is a complex subject, I can't write it down "briefly". Without trying to take side in the abortion issue: abortion itself is not CAUSING women dying in ectopic pregnancy.

Gabor
48 posted on 10/23/2006 2:57:50 PM PDT by Casio
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To: Casio
Without trying to take side in the abortion issue: abortion itself is not CAUSING women dying in ectopic pregnancy.

How about this:

In a good number of cases,
a woman's choice to have an abortion
set up the circumstances that led to her death.
?
49 posted on 10/23/2006 6:21:38 PM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: syriacus

An abortion can "bring about" a failure to recognize the symptoms of an ectopic pregnancy, just as folic acid can "bring about" a failure to recognize the symptoms of B12 deficiency.


50 posted on 10/23/2006 6:35:42 PM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: syriacus
Without trying to take side in the abortion issue: abortion itself is not CAUSING women dying in ectopic pregnancy.

How about this:

In a good number of cases, a woman's choice to have an abortion set up the circumstances that led to her death.


Well.......you asked the question, I must answer according to the best scientific evidence and well known statistics:

It will suprise the heck out of everybody, but do you know what is the LEAST risky contraception?

The answer: using barrier type of methods (condom, diaphragm, spermicides, etc.) AND abortion if they fail (the woman gets pregnant).

How come? Because the barrier type of methods are lacking the risk of hormonal contraceptives or IUD, and when they fail, those and the abortion together has a lower overall mortality than a plain average pregnancy.

But this combined method is so controversial that no sane doctor would suggest it to patients. In other words, abortion has lower mortality than pregnancy, that's my answer to your question (fortunately, the mortality of both is pretty low these days).

The maternal mortality of pregnancy (quote from CDC.gov): "During 1991--1999, a total of 4,200 deaths were determined to be pregnancy-related. The overall pregnancy-related mortality ratio was 11.8 deaths per 100,000 live births and ranged from 10.3 in 1991 to 13.2 in 1999."

The maternal mortality of abortion (quote from CDC.gov): "In 2000, as in previous years, deaths related to legal induced abortions occurred rarely (less than one death per 100,000 abortions)."

-------------------------

As you may know already, I am an obstetrician-gynecologist, I am delivering babies for a living, for the last 27 years of my life, so I am quite familiar with the subject. Although no patient of mine died yet, I didn't conduct pregnancies in the 100,000 range, BUT.......quite a few patient of mine were sick enough, that if they were less lucky (or had a lesser quality doctor (:-)) could have died easily.

The closest a patient of mine got: after a totally normal delivery, beautiful baby, she started to bleed, like you can't possibily imagine. None of the standard medications worked. She lost 13 units of blood (while she was getting equal amount of transfusion of course) by the time I could slow down the bleeding with a combination of medications, one quite rare, had to run to another hospital to get it. That case scared the shit out of me.

So, these are the days of our lives..........and reality.

Gabor
51 posted on 10/24/2006 3:31:52 PM PDT by Casio
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To: Casio
and reality.

I'm glad to hear that you have been so successful with your patients. It's apparent that you are treating your patients as individuals, not statistics.

But the fact that you are careful to beware of potential problems for your individual patients, doesn't change the reality that some abortion doctors don't do that.

And it doesn't change the reality that the patients of some of those doctors would still be alive today, if they hadn't sought an abortion.

52 posted on 10/25/2006 6:48:10 AM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: Casio
The closest a patient of mine got: after a totally normal delivery, beautiful baby, she started to bleed, like you can't possibily imagine.

Having the right doctor can make a big difference.

Many years back I complained when we moved, because I was pregnant and would have to be under the care of a different doctor.

About the time my baby was delivered via C-Section (placenta praevia) a woman, who was under the care of my former HMO, bled to death. After that, I was grateful I was under the care of a different obstetrician.

53 posted on 10/25/2006 7:04:38 AM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: Casio
"During 1991--1999, a total of 4,200 deaths were determined to be pregnancy-related. The overall pregnancy-related mortality ratio was 11.8 deaths per 100,000 live births and ranged from 10.3 in 1991 to 13.2 in 1999."

You didn't reply to my question of whether you approve of the statement..."In a good number of cases, a woman's choice to have an abortion set up the circumstances that led to her death." But you've done a good job of presenting statistics that deal with other questions.

And included in those statistics of pregnancy-related deaths are the women who died of ectopic pregnancies because they mistakenly felt confident that abortions had terminated their pregnancies.

Why do we collect statistics? What can they tell us?

Statistics can be presented in many ways to tell many stories. Pragmatist that I am, I prefer statistics which help us learn lessons in how to save lives in the future.

You can lump together the deaths of hundreds of people who are in auto accidents every year, even though

Some people die because the have faulty tires on their vehicles.
Some people die because a mechanic didn't really fix the problem with the brakes.
Some die because their car stalls on a busy freeway.
etc.
Lumping all the causes together doesn't tell much and doesn't save lives.
54 posted on 10/25/2006 7:49:19 AM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: syriacus
I fused three of your posts into one.

But the fact that you are careful to beware of potential problems for your individual patients, doesn't change the reality that some abortion doctors don't do that.

And it doesn't change the reality that the patients of some of those doctors would still be alive today, if they hadn't sought an abortion.


Having a mortality rate of less than 1 out of 100,000 suggests that by far most doctors performing abortions must be very careful. I don't know how familiar you are with the average mortality of typical surgical cases, but even 1 out of 100,000 is a very low number. Is it perfect? No, of course not, but there is nothing perfect in the science (and practice) of medicine. We, as in "we mankind" are not there yet.

And just so you understand some surgical death rates, here is a bit of surprise for you. Did you know that the same number (mortality rate) is around 244 for something as "simple" as an appendectomy? That is the same number which is 1 (or less than 1) for abortions. Shocking, isn't it?

And it doesn't change the reality that the patients of some of those doctors would still be alive today, if they hadn't sought an abortion

If you address any individual case, yes, you could be right. If you address the 1.5 million abortions every year, out of those less women died then if they would have all carried their pregnancies to term. That is the sad reality. Did you know for example, that before the days of modern medicine, infant mortality rate was over 300 out of 1000? That is more than one out of every four babies! If you don't believe it, somewhere I even have a graph about that, but I have to find it on my computer.

Having the right doctor can make a big difference.
Many years back I complained when we moved, because I was pregnant and would have to be under the care of a different doctor. About the time my baby was delivered via C-Section (placenta praevia) a woman, who was under the care of my former HMO, bled to death. After that, I was grateful I was under the care of a different obstetrician.


Well....I think you probably could be grateful to your luck. Obstetricians who have multiple death cases, won't practice very long. Matters are aggravated by people (in this case women) putting too much trust in modern medicine. They think that they can do anything risky, "the doctor will fix the [bad] outcome anyway". Most of the times they can, once in a while they can't. People (in this case women) believe that "they have the right" to be stupid and ignorant, and rack up risky behavior and still "have the right" to have a normal pregnancy and a healthy baby. The approach is sometimes infuriating for the doctor.

You didn't reply to my question of whether you approve of the statement..."In a good number of cases, a woman's choice to have an abortion set up the circumstances that led to her death."

Indirectly I replied. Directly, examining any given case, yes, you can make such conclusion, but knowing all the factors it would be still an erroneous conclusion. Because yes, given Jane Q. Doe, who died in the abortion (or whatever consequence of thereof) may have had a totally normal pregnancy and no problem at all. But when you are talking about abortions in general, such conclusion would be very misleading, knowing the statistics. Because the average Jane Doe is much more likely to die as a result of an ordinary pregnancy, than die as the result of an abortion.

You can lump together the deaths of hundreds of people who are in auto accidents every year, even though

Some people die because the have faulty tires on their vehicles.
Some people die because a mechanic didn't really fix the problem with the brakes.
Some die because their car stalls on a busy freeway.
etc.

Lumping all the causes together doesn't tell much and doesn't save lives.


It depends what and how you lump together and what you intend to measure with the statistics. If, for example, you compare the overall safety of automobiles with bicycles, yes, it is fair to lump together the various reasons which leads to deadly results. Let those be the reasons you listed for the cars, and let those be broken chain, flat tire, busted brake on bicycles.

Gabor
55 posted on 10/27/2006 4:49:28 AM PDT by Casio
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To: Casio
For ease of discussion, I'll deal with individual points from your most recent post.

If you address any individual case, yes, you could be right. If you address the 1.5 million abortions every year, out of those less women died then if they would have all carried their pregnancies to term

I'd go along with your thinking. I'd reconsider the big picture, rather than considering individual cases, but I am a realist. I am a woman. (Are you?)

There's a glaring fallacy in the statistics you've presented.

If abortion on-demand was not available, we would not have an additional 1.5 million pregnancies carried to term.

I'll rephrase what I am saying, to make my point clear to those, who might be lurking,..

If all women carried their pregnancies to term, there would not be 1.5 million more pregnancies per year, than we currently have.

Proaborts downplay the very real likelihood that mere fact that abortion is legal increases the chances of a woman becoming pregnant in the first place.

If abortion were not legal, many women who do not wish to be pregnant would take steps to avoid becoming pregnant in the first place

If abortion were not legal, women could not become pregnant 2 times within 9 months, as they can easily do nowdays.

If abortion were not legal, women who carried their babies to term and do not wish to have more children would be less likely to become pregnant again.

I think a humorist once said, "The most effective birth control method is being pregnant."

56 posted on 10/27/2006 7:25:02 AM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: Casio
Because the average Jane Doe is much more likely to die as a result of an ordinary pregnancy, than die as the result of an abortion.

And, speaking as a woman, I understand that

The average Jane Doe is more likely to become pregnant
precisely because
abortion on demand is legal.

57 posted on 10/27/2006 7:30:38 AM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: Casio
Obstetricians who have multiple death cases, won't practice very long.

Small solace to the (individual) grieving families.

58 posted on 10/27/2006 7:41:18 AM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: Casio
Matters are aggravated by people (in this case women) putting too much trust in modern medicine.

Might some women and teenage girls, who have this thought in the back of their mind,

"If I get pregnant, I can always have an abortion,"

fit into your category of "putting too much trust in modern medicine"?

For example, teen age girls who consider abortion an option, might more carelessly get pregnant, then decide to bear the baby, then die from failure to seek medical care.

My husband just pointed out that he thinks men would take more responsibility for birth control, if they knew abortion was not an easy "fix" for their "problem."

That's another reason why

there would be fewer annual pregnancies, in the first place,
if abortions-on-demand were not so easy to obtain.

59 posted on 10/27/2006 7:58:37 AM PDT by syriacus (LORD, bless the good people of Iraq and our troops AND confound those who plot evil against them..)
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To: syriacus
My husband just pointed out


Abortion on demand
encourages irresponsibility
+
increases the likelihood of women becoming pregnant

60 posted on 10/27/2006 8:08:06 AM PDT by syriacus (Abortion on demand encourages irresponsibility + increases the likelihood of women becoming pregnant)
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