Posted on 10/26/2006 4:00:42 PM PDT by sergey1973
MOSCOW, October 26 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's defense minister highlighted Moscow's concern Thursday that Georgia could try to tackle disputes with the self-proclaimed republics on its territory militarily.
Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which proclaimed independence from Georgia in the 1990s, have contributed to tensions in relations between Russia and Georgia, which accuse one another of plans to unleash a new bloody conflict in the region and to annex territory, respectively.
(Excerpt) Read more at en.rian.ru ...
PING.
They need to remove the splinters from their own eyes first.
I am so tired of Russia. I wish it would all go away and leave everyone alone.
Then what to do with hawkish Georgian Defense Minister, who promised to celebrate this New Year in Sukhum or resign?
Facing Up To Intolerance in Georgia
Georgians have traditionally prided themselves on their tolerance towards people of other races and other creeds. But they have not always lived up to that perception of themselves. In the late 1980s Zviad Gamsakhurdia promulgated a vision of "Georgia for Georgians" that was enthusiastically espoused by his supporters and impelled many non-Georgians to flee the republic in fear or reprisals or retribution. More recently, religious minorities, in particular Jehovah's Witnesses, have been the target of violence.
Nor is intolerance confined to religious belief, Berdzenishvili continued, it also extends to inter-ethnic relations and to what could be termed local patriotism on the micro-level. He noted that Georgians consider themselves superior to other ethnic groups to the point that, "as any family will confirm," it is considered "a tragedy" if a daughter marries an Armenian, or a son marries a Jewish girl.
That sense of superiority, he said, is extended to an individual's immediate geographical milieu, giving rise to animosity between the population of various districts: for example, a resident of the Tbilisi district of Veri will tell you in all seriousness that it is impossible to find a single decent human being in the Tbilisi suburb of Vake.
Berdzenishvili suggested that the most disturbing thing is that there has been no attempt by either the present Georgian leadership or the Georgian Orthodox Church to counter this way of thinking or offer an alternative. "To affirm that Georgia today is a tolerant society," he said, "is to close one's eyes to the way people treat Zviadists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Methodists, Baptists and unmarried mothers [...] Georgia is an intolerant society and it is our so-called intelligentsia, which is a bastion of intolerance, that sets the tone in this respect."
Djgerenaia for his part rejected the idea that Georgians historically were more tolerant than they are today as a myth that has never been proven. He argued that tolerance is a luxury that only a strong state can afford, and historically Georgia has never been a strong state for an extended period of time. He suggested that Georgians adduce the "myth" of their tolerance in order to avoid facing up to tensions in inter-ethnic relations or between various creeds. He also implied that some prominent figures within the Georgian Orthodox Church may bear some measure of responsibility for growing religious tolerance as a result of the emphasis they place on the role of the Georgian church in Georgian history as contrasted with other faiths.
Georgia for Georgians, how nice. Screaming this sound they were doing national cleansing in Abkhazia and Southern Ossetia.
Conflicting Narratives in Abkhazia and Georgia
After the demise of the Soviet Union, latent ethnic tensions surfaced in different parts of its vast territory. Georgia was one of the most vulnerable ex-Soviet republics in this respect. Georgia included within its frontiers three autonomous republics, of which two, Abkhazian and South Osetian Autonomous Republics were give this status on an ethnic basis in Soviet times. The first President of the newly independent Georgia, Zviad Gamsakhurdia, came to power in April 1991 with a strongly nationalist position. This nationalism implied, on the one hand, granting to the Georgian ethnicity a priority status in the country and, on the other hand, strong opposition to Russia. This nationalist position of the government by the government of the independent Georgia created unrest among ethnically non-Georgian citizens. Many, wary of the new regime, left the country.[3] Abkhazians and Osetians, ethnically different from Georgians, responded to this aggressive nationalism by creating their own nationalist parties. The parties “Aidiglara” (Abkhazia) and “Adamon Nichas” (South Osetia), had overt links to and the support of Russia, who wanted to constrain Georgia’s independence through the dissenting Abkhazians and Osetians. Russia’s wish was to safeguard its former grip in the region. The ever increasing tension developed into a full-fledged war in South Osetia, when the President Gamsakhurdia coerced the Georgian Parliament into abolishing South Osetian Autonomy and renaming South Osetia the “District of Samachablo" – the Georgian name of the land. The war lasted a few months with devastating consequences for both sides. The Osetian case was a signal to Abkhazians to mobilize their powers even more against the Georgian enemy.
Armenian point of view:
http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Keeping_a_home_in_Georgia_and_a_heart_in_Armenia
[...]
The biggest concern Armenians have in Georgia is assimilation. They say the best chance to have success in Georgia is to change the Armenian surname suffix to “shvili” or “dze.”
An Armenian student of the State University in Tbilisi says she was told she should change her name before applying for her PhD diploma.
“The truth is that even after succeeding in getting a PhD, there is no chance to get a well-paying job with an Armenian name,” the student says.
If Armenians now feel like second-class citizens, it has not always been so.
According to an 1821 census, Armenians far outnumbered Georgians in the capital at that time. In Tbilisi, Armenians will show many architectural pearls constructed by prominent Armenian architects of the last centuries. Mansions built by influential Armenians of long ago are among the most attractive buildings in Tbilisi.
In the 18th and 19th centuries, rich Armenian merchants, jewelers and oil industrialists invested heavily in business and helped build cultural centers and schools.
Today in “Old Tbilisi”, the Caravanserais, the popular trade centers of the 18th and 19th centuries owned by Armenians are being renovated – turned into modern salons, boutiques, restaurants. And the gentrification is also removing traces of the district’s Armenian past, as signs that once said “Bari Galust” (welcome) are being covered over by new, non-ethnic, facades.
[...]
How about in Armenia?
So I really don't care what you come up with.
>How about in Armenia?
It is clearly said that for Armenian has much less chances to get a job than Georgian.
>I know more about this war, firsthand, than you will ever be able to read or post.
This stuff was written by people who live or lived there - by the Jew, Georgian and Armenian.
I am pretty doubt that an American can have more knowledge.
>You're wasting a lot of time posting this stuff.
Ok, then YOU are wasting a lot of time posting various whining about "russian nationalizm", "fascism" and "oppression of georgians". Because I know about Russia, firsthand, more than you will ever be able to read or post. Simply because you are not Russian, never lived here, nor will you ever live.
I post to the viewers here, not to you.
>I post to the viewers here, not to you.
I post to them too, because someone needs to counterweight all biased stuff you post.
You will be very busy I imagine.
Anyway this is just Russian BS, trying to make Georgia look bad in the eyes of the world and hoping to make NATO run away in distaste. ==
How you refuse those stubborn facts:
1. Georgia started 2 ethnic wars with Akhazians and Osetians in 1992. Accually at same time when Yugoslavian wars began.
2. Georgia drove out about 200 thousands Russians from her territory. They used slogan: "suitcase-railstation-Russia".
3. Georgia overfled Russia with her criminals and illegals using "novisa border regime with CIS countries".
4. Georgia uses american dole money to pay to Iran. So your tax-payer money goes directly to "crazy Mullahs".
5. Russia saved georgian asses form Turkish Empire. If Russia didn't do that, we wouldn't have that discussion at all today beacuse of absentcy the subject (Georgia). Georgia repayed Russia with extreme ungratitude.
After all I just wish you Marmema to learn history and do not make you idols of Georgians. America will be the new "opressor" of Georgia if you won't learn the Russia' mistakes.
>I post to the viewers here, not to you.
I post to them too, because someone needs to counterweight all biased stuff you post.
Relax:). Marmema accually the veteran here. And I remeber her very kind posts about Russia. BUT..
At some moment she got to Georgia and loved it. She just do not realize sober the subject of her love. She know nothing about the history of Georgia. So she just mistaking honestly.
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