[TrisB]

Thanks for your reply. Your description of the atheist view is accurate to the way I see it, just on your last paragraph:

[Every cosmology has a beginning and they all rely on space/time for causation. Yet there is nothing in the void of the beginning ... There must be an uncaused cause of causation itself, i.e. God. ]

Classic situation - your argument is self contradicting. Cant you see that if you reject something purely because it is uncaused, THEN YOU MUST REJECT AN UNCAUSED GOD. God is thus absolutely not a solution to the problem of creation.

On the flipside, if you accept an infinitely old God (not requiring a creation), then you could equally accept the idea of an eternal cosmos, and don't need a God to solve the problem of creation. You are not solving the problem, you are evading it.

[jwalsh07]

Creation is not a problem for creationists Tris. On the other hand, it is a huge problem for methodological naturalists as witnessed by Albert Einstein adding a constant to avoid a creation event in his field equations.

There is no physics extant, Quantum or Newtonian, that can explain matter and energy ex nihilo but one can have faith that God did it.

I know this puts more of a burden on the naturalists than the creationists but that's the nature of the beasts.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your reply!

Classic situation - your argument is self contradicting. Cant you see that if you reject something purely because it is uncaused, THEN YOU MUST REJECT AN UNCAUSED GOD. God is thus absolutely not a solution to the problem of creation.

Not at all. For one thing, you are making the presupposition of time as a line instead of a plane or brane (Einstein.) And geometric physics strongly suggests additional dimensions, both spatial and temporal (Vafa, Wesson.)

The sense of causation and an arrow of time is event oriented. But were it not for time, events would not occur. Likewise, were it not for space, things would not exist.

No so-called random event can occur in the absence of space/time, so they are only pseudo-random. And we cannot say a thing is random in the system anyway when we don't even know what the system "is."

Geometry is the presupposition of all cosmologies whether cyclic, ekpyrotic, multi-verse, multi-world, inflationary, imaginary time, hesitating, etc.

More importantly, it is an obviously illogical argument that the uncaused cause must be caused.

To the contrary, the void in which all cosmologies must begin has no geometry whatsoever; there is no space, no time, no energy, no matter, no thing and most especially no causation in the void. As our resident physicist put it "existence exists."

The Hebrew term for God as the Creator in the void is Ayn Sof The term basically means “no-thing” — One without end from which all being emerges and into which all being dissolves.

Infinity is merely boundarylessness - but there are no things in the void to which boundaries would apply - no geometry of any kind - only existence - transcending and singular. Existence exists.

Or as God said of Himself, I AM that I AM.

Another way to meditate on the void is consider the difference between zero and null. Zero in a number sequence such as "301" means there are no tens. If it were null, tens do not exist at all.

The void is not merely zero spatial and temporal dimensions. It is null, no space, no time, no causation.

Again, only God can be the uncaused cause of the beginning.