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Dead voters continue to cast ballots in New York (?coincidentally? 4 of 5 are dems)
TheJournalNews ^ | 10-30-2006 | TheJournalNews

Posted on 10/30/2006 3:40:47 PM PST by FreedomNeocon

Steven T. Vermilye was a home inspector and general contractor who grew up in Croton-on-Hudson - he and his father helped build the boat launch at Senasqua Park - went to college in Texas and settled in New Paltz in 1971.

Betty L. Johnson came from a small town in Virginia and moved to Beacon when she was 17, where she raised eight children while boxing duct tape at Tuck Tape and working in the kitchen at the Castle Point Veterans Hospital.

David S. Stairs was born in Glasgow, Scotland, and came to the mid-Hudson Valley in 1927, where as a 16-year-old he pounded hot rivets into the New York Central Railroad at Croton-Harmon and then spent 45 years working his way up through Texaco's research center in Glenham.

The three mid-Hudson Valley residents had little in common during their lives, but share one thing now: Records exist of them casting a vote after they died.

A new statewide database of registered voters contains as many as 77,000 dead people on its rolls, and as many as 2,600 of them have cast votes from the grave, according to a Poughkeepsie Journal computer-assisted analysis.

The Journal's analysis of New York's 3-month-old database is the first to determine the potential for errors and fraud in voting. It matched names, dates of birth and ZIP codes in the state's database of 11.7 million voter registration records against the same information in the Social Security Administration's "Death Master File." That database has 77 million records of deaths dating back to 1937.

The state database was current as of Oct. 4, the master death index through June.

The same process has been used to identify deceased registrants in other states, but is not yet being used in New York.

The numbers do not indicate how much fraud is the result of dead voters in New York, only the potential for it. Typically, records of votes by the dead are the result of bookkeeping errors and do not mean any extra ballots were actually cast.

The Journal did not find any fraud in the local matches it investigated.

"Of course we are concerned about people voting if they are dead," George Stanton, chief information officer for the state Board of Elections, said in an e-mailed response.

He said an updated version of the voter list was being developed.

"Any tool that will help us maintain a more accurate voter list will be considered for use," he said.

Among the Journal's findings:

- There were dead people on the voter rolls in all of New York's 62 counties and people in as many as 45 counties who had votes recorded after they had died.

- One Bronx address was listed as the home for as many as 191 registered voters who had died. The address is 5901 Palisade Ave., in Riverdale, site of the Hebrew Home for the Aged.

- Democrats who cast votes after they died outnumbered Republicans by more than 4 to 1. The reason: Most of them came from Democrat-dominated New York City, where the higher population produced more matches.

Tales of votes being cast from the grave are part of election lore. Last year, at least two dead voters were counted in a Tennessee state Senate race that was decided by fewer than 20 votes. As a result of that and other irregularities, seven poll workers were fired, an entire precinct was dissolved and the election results were voided by the state Senate, forcing the removal of the presumed winner. Three elections workers were indicted for faking the votes.

In 1997, a judge declared a Miami mayoral election invalid because of widespread fraud, including dead voters.

And in one of the more notorious examples, inspectors estimated that as many as 1 in 10 ballots cast in Chicago during the 1982 Illinois gubernatorial election were fraudulent for various reasons, including votes by the dead.

In one reported case, a dead man's signature was clearly spelled out on voting records even though while alive he could only mark an "X" because he had no fingers.

In most cases, instances of dead voters can be attributed to database mismatches and clerical errors. For instance, the Social Security Administration admits there are people in its master death index who are not dead.

They include Wappingers Falls resident Hilde Stafford, an 85-year-old native of Germany. The master index lists her date of death as June 15, 1997.

"I'm still alive," she said. "I still vote."

State and federal laws require dead voters to be purged from the rolls, but it requires a tricky balance of commitment and restraint. Failing to do so enhances the opportunity for fraud, the case of one person pretending to be another.

"The only reason it's a potential problem is that elections are very contentious," said David Gamache, Dutchess County's Republican elections commissioner. "And there is a reason why the election law takes up almost 500 pages. If there is a way to cheat people, people are going to look at it and see if it is viable and whether or not they should do it."

Removing dead voters also can save boards of elections the cost of sending unnecessary mail-checks and absentee ballots. But overzealous matching can result in legitimate voters being removed.

"It's almost damned if you do, damned if you don't," said Doug Chapin, director of the nonpartisan Election Reform Information Project in Washington. The nonprofit clearing house was formed in 2001 with a grant from the Pew Charitable Trusts to track election reform developments around the country.

Other states have used the death index to supplement data collected by their health departments. Earlier this year, officials in Washington state used health department records and the death index to remove 19,579 deceased people in the first four months after its statewide database was created. The effort there was underscored by the results of the 2004 gubernatorial election, in which Democratic Gov. Christine Gregoire won by 129 votes after two recounts of the more than 2.8 million cast.

States are creating statewide databases to comply with the Help America Vote Act, the federal legislation that was sparked by the controversy surrounding the 2000 presidential election. The deadline for compliance was Jan. 1.

In March, the U.S. Department of Justice sued New York over its failure to meet that deadline. In response to a court-approved settlement, the state completed a preliminary version of its database in time for the 2006 election cycle. The database merged each of the 62 county files into one. It is updated daily with changes sent in batches by the counties. The final version will let county officials log in and make changes directly to the database.

New York has not decided whether it will use the Social Security Administration's database to search for dead voters, said Stanton, the manager of data processing services for the state board. Stanton said one concern is that the state, by law, can ask for only the last four digits of an applicant's Social Security number.

"Nobody wants to remove someone from the voter rolls who may not be dead," Stanton said. "I got one of those calls once."

For now, the responsibility of removing dead voters falls on county boards of elections. Each month, counties receive a list of recent deaths from the state Health Department and cross-check that information against their rolls. In August, 21 people were removed by Dutchess County's board this way.

That system does not always account for all deaths.

"You are going to miss people that went across the border, who may have gone hunting or fishing someplace" and then died, said Steve Excell, Washington's assistant secretary of state.

Boards of elections use mail checks as one way to verify the status of registered voters. If a card is returned by the postal service, the voter is flagged as inactive. That method does not work if the card is not returned - if family members are living at the same address and still collecting their deceased parents' mail, for instance.

In Ulster County, Vermilye, the former Croton resident, voted for the last time in his life in 2000. Vermilye was suffering from a malignant brain tumor and needed a wheelchair to get around. He asked his daughter, Lydia Weiss, to take him to vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton in the U.S. Senate primary.

"Something like that with a wheelchair and a 200-plus pound man who was immobilized was no easy endeavor," Weiss said. "He lived five miles away, and the whole thing took maybe an hour and a half. The whole reason we went and made such an effort is he thought it was going to be his last. He knew that Hillary had the primary in the bag, but wanted her to have one more vote on her side."

Vermilye lived long enough to cast one more vote, by absentee ballot, in the November general election. He died June 19, 2001, at age 54.

So it came as some surprise to his daughter that the Ulster County Board of Elections had a record of him voting in the 2004 general election. Again, there was no fraud. Ulster officials found that an absentee ballot cast by Vermilye's son, Jamie, had mistakenly been added to his father's record.

"I was willing to assume it was a clerical error," Weiss said. "I am so proud to be from New York, and not a state like Florida or Ohio. But it is discouraging to see even a state (like New York) - that hasn't been revealed to have problems that have made it onto the national radar - is rife with problems of its own."


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: deaddemsvoting; democrats; election; elections; fraud; newyork; vote; votefraud; voterfraud
Among the Journal's findings:

- There were dead people on the voter rolls in all of New York's 62 counties and people in as many as 45 counties who had votes recorded after they had died.

- One Bronx address was listed as the home for as many as 191 registered voters who had died. The address is 5901 Palisade Ave., in Riverdale, site of the Hebrew Home for the Aged.

- Democrats who cast votes after they died outnumbered Republicans by more than 4 to 1. The reason: Most of them came from Democrat-dominated New York City, where the higher population produced more matches.

1 posted on 10/30/2006 3:40:48 PM PST by FreedomNeocon
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To: FreedomNeocon

Why are the dead so liberal? Is it because their brains have liquified?


2 posted on 10/30/2006 3:42:57 PM PST by Asclepius (protectionists would outsource our dignity and prosperity in return for illusory job security)
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To: FreedomNeocon
Dead Voters Like Me, only on Fox!
3 posted on 10/30/2006 3:48:36 PM PST by pabianice
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To: FreedomNeocon

Do you think its time we too go to the practice where we have to show up in person (no absentee stuff) and stick our finger in a pot of ink to mark us as voted already?

Geeeez, in this age of high tech databases and such can't we even keep straight who has voted and who hasn't and who is dead and who isn't. The fact that we can't leads one to shudder at the mention of the RFD chips which are beginning to gain support in many places that will keep data bases on our every move. When they screw up as easily as the voter records screw up then it is easy to see how one could be convicted in a court of law for a crime that one didn't commit on the evidence of such a data base.

Think about it folks! The last time I questioned this I was told to get out my tin foil hat. But articles like this just point to the truth. The governments data bases and their matches to the actions of real people are flawed and always will be!


4 posted on 10/30/2006 3:53:28 PM PST by Apple Pan Dowdy (... as American as Apple Pie)
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To: FreedomNeocon

It has always puzzled me why Demonrats have such little respect for the dead considering that that is one of their most loyal voting demographic.


5 posted on 10/30/2006 3:55:30 PM PST by HEY4QDEMS (Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.)
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To: FreedomNeocon

is there a link to the story?


6 posted on 10/30/2006 3:55:36 PM PST by God luvs America (When the silent majority speaks the earth trembles!)
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To: Asclepius
"Why are the dead so liberal? Is it because their brains have liquified?"

Thank you for my laugh of the day!
7 posted on 10/30/2006 4:15:19 PM PST by LostInBayport (Massachusetts liberals refuse to admit we exist...we are the 37% of MA voters who voted for GWB)
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To: FreedomNeocon

Help! I do not get the article when I click the link.


8 posted on 10/30/2006 4:18:57 PM PST by Jeff Gordon (History convinces me that bad government results from too much government. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: FreedomNeocon
"I was willing to assume it was a clerical error," Weiss said. "I am so proud to be from New York, and not a state like Florida or Ohio. But it is discouraging to see even a state (like New York) - that hasn't been revealed to have problems that have made it onto the national radar - is rife with problems of its own."

What a loon. The whole problem with FL in 2000 was BECAUSE of transplants from NY. Now we a being overrun with them in Central Florida.

And I can guarantee you that many of them vote in both NY and FL. Let's see if the Journal cares to go after that.

9 posted on 10/30/2006 4:18:59 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (In God we trust. All others we monitor.)
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To: FreedomNeocon

4 of 5 were Democrats when alive. All are Democrats now.I think it is in the Constitution. Death converts all voters to Democrat.


10 posted on 10/30/2006 4:20:45 PM PST by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE)
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To: FreedomNeocon
Democrats who cast votes after they died outnumbered Republicans by more than 4 to 1. The reason: Most of them came from Democrat-dominated New York City, where the higher population produced more matches.

Yeah, right. An alternate reason is that Dems cheat four times as often as Pubs. Take your pick.

11 posted on 10/30/2006 4:27:45 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy
I can fix this for you. But you aren't going to like it...

In the Third Reich, every one was required to register their address within days after moving in. With computers, it is a trivial thing, to check every voter, before they leave the polls.

Heck, using ATM technology, we can make our voting darn near tamper-proof.

Do you really want your government that efficient?

12 posted on 10/30/2006 4:31:46 PM PST by patton (Sanctimony frequently reaps its own reward.)
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy
Geeeez, in this age of high tech databases and such can't we even keep straight who has voted and who hasn't and who is dead and who isn't.

I don't think it's so much a case of can't as won't. When you consider that Visa or Mastercard can tell you exactly what your balance is at any time, voter rolls could be almost perfectly accurate. Then, how would the cheaters cheat? /sarcasm

13 posted on 10/30/2006 4:35:44 PM PST by Freee-dame
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To: FreedomNeocon

And now we know why RATS support Death Taxes 100%. All voters must be taxed!

"When I die, Harold Ford will let me vote agin . . ." lol


14 posted on 10/30/2006 4:36:12 PM PST by petitfour
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To: Asclepius

Who'd a Thunk It?


15 posted on 10/30/2006 4:39:00 PM PST by bandleader
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To: FreedomNeocon
[ - Democrats who cast votes after they died outnumbered Republicans by more than 4 to 1. ]

BUT no doubt all 5 voted for democrats..

16 posted on 10/30/2006 4:40:17 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole.)
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To: FreedomNeocon

I thought the best part of the article was the fact that the guy with the brain tumor wanted to vote for Hillary. I suppose that would be one explanation on why people vote for her.


17 posted on 10/30/2006 4:40:32 PM PST by ga medic
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To: FreedomNeocon

BUMP


18 posted on 10/30/2006 4:57:22 PM PST by Tamzee (If you got 75 or 80% of what you were asking for... you take it & fight for the rest later - Reagan)
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To: FreedomNeocon

"Bring out your dead!!"


19 posted on 10/30/2006 5:00:50 PM PST by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: FreedomNeocon
Last year, at least two dead voters were counted in a Tennessee state Senate race that was decided by fewer than 20 votes...Three elections workers were indicted for faking the votes.

These votes were cast for Democrats. Even in TN the dead vote Democrat. In fact, if I'm remembering right, the votes were cast for one of Harold Ford's relatives.

20 posted on 10/30/2006 5:04:06 PM PST by Yardstick
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To: FreedomNeocon

Dying is bad enough, but someone using your name posthumously to vote liberal is just malevolent.


21 posted on 10/30/2006 5:11:32 PM PST by Teflonic
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To: Yardstick

Yes, it was Ophelia Ford, Harold's aunt. She was defending the state senate seat that she had inherited from her brother, John, after he was busted by the FBI (along with several other Democrats and one Republican) for bribery:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1614660/posts


22 posted on 10/30/2006 5:12:51 PM PST by Yardstick
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To: FreedomNeocon

didn't a movie get made in which the kid stated , "I see dead people....and the all will vote lib/dem!!!"


23 posted on 10/30/2006 5:19:18 PM PST by hnj_00
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To: hosepipe

Well of course all 5 voted democrat. The one that was a Republican when alive is the same "I've been a lifelong Republican but now I'm voting for the Democrats because of this war" voter that the press is always quoting.


24 posted on 10/30/2006 5:25:03 PM PST by marlon
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To: Asclepius
Why are the dead so liberal? Is it because their brains have liquified?

ROFLMAO!

25 posted on 10/30/2006 5:25:03 PM PST by PajamaTruthMafia
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To: FreedomNeocon

Ithought the gop was in control of the state of NY...........................


why is this still hapeening?


26 posted on 10/30/2006 5:26:07 PM PST by WhiteGuy (DeWine ranked as one of the ten worst border security politicians - Human Events)
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To: Asclepius

in Baltimore they will have a voting booth at Greenmount cemetary Edgar Allen Poe amoung other notbles vote demo-ratin every local election


27 posted on 10/30/2006 5:50:24 PM PST by mickey blue eyes
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To: Asclepius
Why are the dead so liberal?

I was going to say that they don't pay taxes, but they do. So I'm going to say its because they are below the poverty line.

-PJ

28 posted on 10/30/2006 5:53:11 PM PST by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
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To: FreedomNeocon

And this is why Mrs. Bill Clinton decided to run in the State of New York


29 posted on 10/30/2006 8:25:18 PM PST by Mo1 (GET OUT AND VOTE - SAY NO TO DEMOCRATS)
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To: FreedomNeocon

Nuke York City is a 'CRAT Town, has been since the progeny of Ellis Island placed FDR in the WH ...

That is diversity for you .

Immigrants and minorities vote Socialist(Welfare State)- out of self-interest .
They have no motivation to do otherwise .


30 posted on 10/31/2006 5:27:23 AM PST by marc costanzo (Name your poison :-))
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To: FreedomNeocon

one way to keep your power....WAKE THE DEAD!!!!


31 posted on 10/31/2006 5:34:03 AM PST by DoGood (DoGood--"VICTORY IS IN OUR HANDS")
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To: FreedomNeocon

?????????????????????????????????


32 posted on 10/31/2006 5:34:05 AM PST by DoGood (DoGood--"VICTORY IS IN OUR HANDS")
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To: FreedomNeocon
Democrats who cast votes after they died outnumbered Republicans by more than 4 to 1.

Which is why democrats don't want voter ID.

33 posted on 10/31/2006 6:48:51 AM PST by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal.")
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To: FreedomNeocon

So THATS what they meant when they said "He voted Repulican until the day he died!"


34 posted on 10/31/2006 8:10:05 AM PST by libs_kma (Monica blew while Al-Queda grew.....Oh well, Clinton happens!)
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