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Losing Libertarians
Washington Times ^ | 11/6/06 | David Boaz

Posted on 11/07/2006 7:01:57 AM PST by libertylovinactivist

Take a look at independent voters. There are more of them than before, especially in the West. More than 25 percent of Arizona voters now register as independent or third-party voters. And according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll, they've shifted sharply toward the Democrats in this fall's elections.

(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 3rdpartylosers; elections; gop; greenpartyrejects; liberaltardation; liberaltarians; libertarians; republicans
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1 posted on 11/07/2006 7:01:58 AM PST by libertylovinactivist
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To: libertylovinactivist
libertylovinactivist Since Oct 6, 2006

And yet despite all their bellicose angst and relentless self promotion, they STILL have yet to elect even ONE person to ANY office ANY where.

2 posted on 11/07/2006 7:04:50 AM PST by MNJohnnie (The Democrat Party: Hard on Taxpayers, Soft on Terrorism!)
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To: libertylovinactivist

What Libertarian is voting for Dems? Get serious.

It's either Republicans (in my case this year), Libertarians, or stay home.


3 posted on 11/07/2006 7:06:08 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: libertylovinactivist

Libertarians or just dopers?


4 posted on 11/07/2006 7:06:12 AM PST by Democrap (http://democrap.com --- We have a plan!)
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To: MNJohnnie

But I think the point of the article was that they are stealing away votes from Republicans. Voting Libertarian is seen by some as a protest vote.


5 posted on 11/07/2006 7:06:19 AM PST by FlipWilson
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To: libertylovinactivist

IMHO, it will take a major uprising against existing politicians to bring a third party into strength to start winning things....but that day may come.


6 posted on 11/07/2006 7:06:46 AM PST by EagleUSA
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To: libertylovinactivist

Despite all the negative talk about conservative christians, it looks to me like the libertarian wing of the party is a lot more likely to undo the GOP.


7 posted on 11/07/2006 7:07:09 AM PST by JamesP81 (Rights must be enforced; rights that you're not allowed to enforce are rights that you don't have.)
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To: MNJohnnie

I just returned from a monetary conference at Hillsdale with a lot of Libertarians, and they really are angry people. I don't even want to read "Reason" mag any more. They are completely detached from reality when it comes to national security because . . . SURPRISE . . . they don't approve of nations!


8 posted on 11/07/2006 7:07:14 AM PST by LS
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To: MNJohnnie

If you don't want 'em, let 'em go.


9 posted on 11/07/2006 7:07:36 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: libertylovinactivist

Humm. Seems to me that a Libertarian who votes for a Democrat over a Republican isn't a Libertarian; they’re a moron.


10 posted on 11/07/2006 7:07:52 AM PST by Niteranger68 (Already voted absentee...straight Republican ticket...best choice on the menu.)
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To: MNJohnnie
And yet despite all their bellicose angst and relentless self promotion, they STILL have yet to elect even ONE person to ANY office ANY where

And the big-spending, internationalist, pro-illegal immigrant Republican party, in conjunction with the big spending, internationalist, pro-illegal immigrant Democrat party seem to working together to change that

11 posted on 11/07/2006 7:08:12 AM PST by Irontank (Let them revere nothing but religion, morality and liberty -- John Adams)
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To: Irontank
Um...Irontank?

Are you aware that the official immigration position of the Libertarian Party is open borders?
12 posted on 11/07/2006 7:09:12 AM PST by RockinRight (Maintaining a Republican majority is MORE IMPORTANT than your temper tantrum.)
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To: libertylovinactivist

Conservative libertarians (me) IMHO are looking to conserve freedoms and do not understand GOP big government spending and legislation such as senior prescription drugs, NCLB, CAFTA, immigration issues, Dubai Ports ... but, most of all, we abhor not committing fully the will to win in foreign entanglements. Voting write-in or not voting at all is a way to send a message to the president that we're angry.


13 posted on 11/07/2006 7:09:25 AM PST by meandog (While Bush will never fill them, Clinton isn't fit to even lick the soles of Reagan's shoes!)
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To: libertylovinactivist

The Libertarian is voting Libertarian. I can see no reason for a Libertarian to vote for a Democrat.


14 posted on 11/07/2006 7:09:39 AM PST by kenn5
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To: LS

(Opinion) Libertarians are much more toward anarchy than other conservatives, Christian or otherwise.


15 posted on 11/07/2006 7:10:43 AM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( http://www.freerepublic.com/~jedimasterpikachu/ The tables should be frozen in place, now.)
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To: RacerF150
eems to me that a Libertarian who votes for a Democrat over a Republican isn't a Libertarian; they’re a moron.

Agreed. How you can be a pro-self defense, pro-capitalism, pro-property Rights, pro-individualism libertarian and vote for a socialist Dem is completely beyond me.

Or course, how you can be a pro-self defense, pro-capitalism, pro-property Rights, pro-individualism libertarian and vote for a RINO socialist is entirely beyond me as well but folks like McCain and Specter keep getting nominated by the GOP.

16 posted on 11/07/2006 7:13:41 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Well, my days of not taking your seriously are certainly coming to a middle)
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To: RockinRight
Are you aware that the official immigration position of the Libertarian Party is open borders?

I'm not a Libertarian and I'm not advocating voting Libertarian...my point is really just that both parties, for as much as they pretend they are diametric opposites, offer voters no real choice. I will vote Republican because I want the tax cuts extended...that's it. And it becomes harder every year to convince myself that my vote for Tweedle-Dee or Tweedle-Dum makes any real difference

17 posted on 11/07/2006 7:13:49 AM PST by Irontank (Let them revere nothing but religion, morality and liberty -- John Adams)
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To: MNJohnnie
There have been plenty of Libertarians elected to office, just not on the national level.
18 posted on 11/07/2006 7:14:29 AM PST by WackySam ("There's room for all God's creatures- right next to the taters")
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To: Beelzebubba
What Libertarian is voting for Dems? Get serious.

Actually it does happen. I'm listening to a Delaware radio talk show, and a candidate for one of the legislative offices, who is running as an independent/libertarian was just on talking about how he is looking forward to a democrat controlled congress and State House of Representatives.

I've known the guy for years, so I know he is speaking the truth. he is also campaign manager for a candidate that is running as an independent because she lost the Dem primary for the lone congressional seat.

19 posted on 11/07/2006 7:15:17 AM PST by Gabz
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To: meandog

Say hello to the democrats with your vote. All the things you don't like about the republicans will be 10 fold worse with democrats, but you are so smart that you outsmarted yourself with your vote. Lot's of people did the same thing when they voted for Ross Perot, and we got the democrat Clinton.


20 posted on 11/07/2006 7:16:06 AM PST by Hendrix
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To: libertylovinactivist

This Libertarian voted for Allen in Virginia because he's actually a pretty decent senator (a lousy campaigner, though). My rep is a republican and is running unopposed.


21 posted on 11/07/2006 7:16:52 AM PST by Terpin (Missing: One very clever and insightful tagline. Reward for safe return!)
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To: MNJohnnie
And yet despite all their bellicose angst and relentless self promotion, they STILL have yet to elect even ONE person to ANY office ANY where

Do your homework.

22 posted on 11/07/2006 7:17:03 AM PST by gdani (Save the cheerleader, save the world)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

Agree. I had dinner with a couple of prof-types in April, and these people were COMPLETELY open borders. They didn't even want us to have a border.


23 posted on 11/07/2006 7:17:57 AM PST by LS
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To: EagleUSA
IMHO, it will take a major uprising against existing politicians to bring a third party into strength to start winning things....but that day may come.

Keep your Glock oiled and ready

24 posted on 11/07/2006 7:18:16 AM PST by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli)
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To: libertylovinactivist

Yawn. More of the same old, same old. Libertarians are disgruntled. Evangelicals are disgruntled. Yada, yada. If only we had a third party (snicker). I believe in SOME libertarian principles, I also understand the importance of building majorities to get things done. I voted for every Republican I could. Note: the Libertarian Party does NOT represent all libertarians.


25 posted on 11/07/2006 7:18:37 AM PST by rhombus
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To: JamesP81

You have it backwards -- the religious right is demanding too much and thereby driving away the mass of anti-Big-Government voters on which the GOP depends.


26 posted on 11/07/2006 7:18:47 AM PST by steve-b (It's hard to be religious when certain people don't get struck by lightning.)
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To: MNJohnnie

I think they've gotten dog catcher and sewer inspector in a couple of out of the way places.


27 posted on 11/07/2006 7:19:46 AM PST by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: meandog
Voting write-in or not voting at all is a way to send a message to the president that we're angry

And insure that the communists get into power once again. Not exactly a "Hobson's" choice as I see it.

28 posted on 11/07/2006 7:19:48 AM PST by Don Corleone (Leave the gun..take the cannoli)
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To: steve-b
You have it backwards -- the religious right is demanding too much and thereby driving away the mass of anti-Big-Government voters on which the GOP depends.

It ain't even nearly that simple. About half the religious right is of the small government stripe, but the other half isn't and, unfortunately, their voice is the one being heard. However, it's Libertarians, not conservative Christians, that I see voting third party. So no, I don't have it backwards.
29 posted on 11/07/2006 7:21:14 AM PST by JamesP81 (Rights must be enforced; rights that you're not allowed to enforce are rights that you don't have.)
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To: LS
Agree. I had dinner with a couple of prof-types in April, and these people were COMPLETELY open borders. They didn't even want us to have a border.

One wonders if these idiots lock their doors at night.

30 posted on 11/07/2006 7:21:32 AM PST by rhombus
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To: kenn5

IANAL-I am not a libertarian.

I find doctrinaire libertarianism a bit whacky, but if I was a dedicated Libertarian, I would vote third party. If you really hold those beliefs, it's not a matter of picking the lesser of evils.

Same thing with a communist, no I am not comparing the two. But if you genuinely believe in communism, voting for democratic style socialism would be repulsive as well. I disagree with the philosophies, but I do get a bit annoyed when folks here try to suggest that Libertarians go and vote for Chris Shays or Lincoln Chafee and they are horrible human beings if they don't.


31 posted on 11/07/2006 7:23:23 AM PST by dogbyte12
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To: Hendrix
Lot's of people did the same thing when they voted for Ross Perot, and we got the democrat Clinton.

It wouldn't have happened if we had the instant runoff ballot in place. But that would be dangerous to our beloved 2-party system; if people could actually vote for the 3rd party candidate without throwing their vote away, he might eventually even win!

32 posted on 11/07/2006 7:23:50 AM PST by Dick Holmes
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To: MNJohnnie

Bill Masters, sheriff of Telluride County, Colorado.


33 posted on 11/07/2006 7:24:11 AM PST by coloradan (Failing to protect the liberties of your enemies establishes precedents that will reach to yourself.)
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To: Irontank
There are differences among the part faithful. Once you get into the squishy "moderates", the differences vanish.

Big difference between Bush and Kerry as POTUS? Supreme Court picks. Fighting the War on Terror. Tax cuts.

Not to toot Bush's horn too much. He's still entirely too liberal for my tastes. Especially on things like McCain-Feingold, No Child, and Borders.

34 posted on 11/07/2006 7:24:26 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Well, my days of not taking your seriously are certainly coming to a middle)
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To: Dead Corpse
Or course, how you can be a pro-self defense, pro-capitalism, pro-property Rights, pro-individualism libertarian and vote for a RINO socialist is entirely beyond me as well but folks like McCain and Specter keep getting nominated by the GOP.

That's why I think it would be interesting to see Chafee lose his seat, yet the Republicans keep control of the Senate.

35 posted on 11/07/2006 7:25:26 AM PST by Niteranger68 (Already voted absentee...straight Republican ticket...best choice on the menu.)
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To: libertylovinactivist
" But new research shows that about 15 percent of American voters hold libertarian views. They're small-government, leave-me-alone voters who don't like big-spending Democrats or religious-right Republicans."

That does not mean that 15% are Libertarians. I don't know what percentage of Americans register as Libertarians, but it is only a tiny amount. I'm not a member of any party, but I've mostly voted for Republicans in my life. I've always liked the idea of smaller government, less government interference in business and in the lives of individuals, etc. The Republican party has changed a lot in that regard in my opinion. I cannot look at them as the party that stands for a less intrusive smaller government anymore. They've proven to be really no better than Democrats. To be quite honest, I'm thinking a little gridlock is in order to keep them all in line a little better. Neither party can be trusted to run the whole show. Politicians are crooks. They raise fortunes to get elected and then they pay the piper with all sorts of pork. These Republicans in power have spent more money than Democrats and had a real pork fest in Washington. I'm disillusioned. I certainly did not vote a straight Republican ticket this time around.
36 posted on 11/07/2006 7:26:37 AM PST by TKDietz (")
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To: steve-b

What is the religious right demanding that's going to cost anybody a cent? I'm a social conservative, but I'm for small government, too. There's no dichotomy there. Getting rid of partial birth abortion, supporting school choice, supporting traditional marriage, etc. are free to the taxpayers. Traditional Judeo-Christian values save the government money. Fewer out of wedlock births, one man and one woman in a traditional marriage, schools that aren't liberal cesspool money pits, people who believe they are accountable to God for the way they live their lives--all of that lessens the burden on government and eliminates the need for the Nanny state. A win-win.


37 posted on 11/07/2006 7:26:58 AM PST by LadyNavyVet
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To: WackySam

True, however, there at least two libertarians in the US congress that call themselves republicans - Ron Paul of Texas and Jeff Flake of Arizona.


38 posted on 11/07/2006 7:30:18 AM PST by kenn5
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To: libertylovinactivist
I am a Libertarian with libertarian ideals, however, after 911, I have only voted Republican because if we don't have a country what's the sense of arguing about anything. I voted Republican in spite of 6 years of growing the government at 2-3 times the inflation rate, no permanent tax cuts, "sensible immigration reform", No Child Left Behind, the Medicare Prescription bill, the anti-freedom drug war and banning of Internet poker. The thought of Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House of, Alcee Hastings heading the House Intelligence Committee (Hastings has been convicted of lying under oath and could not receive a security clearance if he wanted to be an assembler at Raytheon, but now he qualified to head the HIC?), and Harry Reid as Senate Majority Leader makes me sick.
39 posted on 11/07/2006 7:30:29 AM PST by jackieaxe (Unsourced reporting is not reporting but a lie or a manipulation)
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To: dogbyte12
I find doctrinaire libertarianism a bit whacky, but if I was a dedicated Libertarian, I would vote third party. If you really hold those beliefs, it's not a matter of picking the lesser of evils.

I would just like to vote for the party that is for maintaining the security of our borders, our property, and our nation, providing a criminal justice system, and otherwise reigning in the rampant Federal agencies and the rampant budget that supports them.

Once upon a time, Republicans were that party, but most of them don't even bother to talk the talk any more, let alone walk the walk.

I will probably hold my nose and vote mostly for Republicans today...but if there was a viable Libertarian on the ticket, I'd be all for it.

Thanks a lot, GOP. [sigh]

40 posted on 11/07/2006 7:30:30 AM PST by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: FlipWilson
idiots... if they don't like the rhino running for office, they should have voted him/her out in the primary elections... not make a ridiculous statement when it truly counts!
41 posted on 11/07/2006 7:30:59 AM PST by fhlh (Polls are for Strippers.)
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To: LadyNavyVet
What is the religious right demanding that's going to cost anybody a cent?

Having the federal government get rid of all the pornography.

42 posted on 11/07/2006 7:32:09 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Beelzebubba

I agree. I cannot imagine why Libertarians would be inclined to vote for the party that introduced Socialism to America and strives to perpetuate its continuation.
The only thing that I can think of would be that Democrats are more and more secular in their thinking, and many libertarians are opposed to a conservative social agenda. I consider myself a libertarian but not a pure Ayn Rand type. Milton Friedman is my role model. Also, Barry Goldwater--kep government out of our pockets and bedrooms.


43 posted on 11/07/2006 7:33:24 AM PST by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: libertylovinactivist

I'm not buying it. A libertarian might sit this one out, but it is hard to imagine very many true libertarians getting Dem witted.


44 posted on 11/07/2006 7:38:19 AM PST by NavVet (O)
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To: MNJohnnie
The luck for third parties may change in TX. In the 28th congressional district there are two dems in a cut throat fight for the seat and one member of the constitution party. The reps did not run anyone. This district usually goes about 60% to 40% rat. But if the 2 dems can split the vote enough the Constitution party can win this seat. As I understand it they are making a full court press.
45 posted on 11/07/2006 7:42:10 AM PST by Hydroshock ( (Proverbs 22:7). The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.)
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To: RacerF150
That's why I think it would be interesting to see Chafee lose his seat, yet the Republicans keep control of the Senate.

Agreed. Seeing a re-surgance of Goldwater/Reagan-esque Republicanism would do my heart a lot of good at this point.

46 posted on 11/07/2006 7:46:27 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Well, my days of not taking your seriously are certainly coming to a middle)
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To: LS

I agree completely. I never met a libertarian who did not come off as angry and completely self centered.


47 posted on 11/07/2006 7:47:29 AM PST by eleni121 ("Show me just what Mohammed brought:: evil and inhumanity")
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To: EagleUSA
IMHO, it will take a major uprising against existing politicians to bring a third party into strength to start winning things....but that day may come.

It's highly unlikely. The Republicrats learned their lesson after Ross Perot, and clamped-down on third parties. Top that with Campaign Finance Reform to make it difficult for smaller parties to raise money and there's virtually no chance except in smaller state races. Even then, the Republicrats have that "straight ticket" check box on many state ballots to make it easier to vote for just them, excluding other parties.

The only positive change I've seen over the last several years is the relaxation of state election laws due to challenges from other parties. It's still hard for other parties to get on the ballot (while the Republicrats get on automatically), but it's not quite as onerous in many places now.

Republicans and Democrats fight with each other all the time, but they will always band together to defend their duopoly.

48 posted on 11/07/2006 7:51:50 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: Don Corleone
And insure that the communists get into power once again. Not exactly a "Hobson's" choice as I see it.

Well, why won't the president listen? He's been compared favorably to Lincoln in many ways BUT ever hear of Simon Cameron and Hannibal Hamlin? They were Lincoln's respective Secretary of War and Vice President before Edwin Stanton and Andrew Johnson...according to Rumsfeld, he has offered resignation twice but has been turned down and, for the life of me, I cannot figure out why. Rove has got to know that he's probably the most unpopular Defense Secretary since McNamara and, if he's willing to fall on his sword for the good of the president and the country, why not let him? I recall a very good Chief of Naval Operations (Kelso) during the infamous Iowa battleship tragedy and tailhook fiasco did just that because, in his words, he became a lightening rod. I also recall that antoher CNO (Jeremy Brooda) commited suicide in the belief that he disgraced the service. Now, I'm not advocating that Rummy do the same but he was a Navy man and he should know where the buck stops when the war in Iraq is in such a mess, the war where he and the vice president claimed we'd be welcomed as heroes, the war where we had an opportunity to corral WMDs going to Syria, where we could have contained looting and the outbreaks of sectarian violence if only he'd have listened to voices such as Gen. Shenseki and committed 500,000 troops to REALLY produce "shock and awe" instead of the plainly insufficient 150,000 in his "shuck and jive" effort!

49 posted on 11/07/2006 7:51:54 AM PST by meandog (While Bush will never fill them, Clinton isn't fit to even lick the soles of Reagan's shoes!)
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To: Beelzebubba

No true Libertarian or libertarian would EVER vote for an unrepentant Statist, which all Democrats are.


50 posted on 11/07/2006 7:51:56 AM PST by John Valentine
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