`Purpose' (Driven Life) pastor has pulpit for Obama (Rick Warren Courts Dems)

Chicago Tribune ^ | 11/16/06

[latina4dubya]

T.D. Jakes, Joel Osteen and Rick Warren are among the more notorious semi-Pelagian "health and wealth" peddlers, from what I understand.

i did not realize this about Rick Warren... i read 40 Days of Purpose and did not get "health and wealth" from it... perhaps in other writings he's done? please point me to where i can find this... thanks!

[jude24]

Alright. Your post is Defense's Exhibit A of everything that is wrong with American Evangelical Christianity.

You are very ignorant of Scripture, and life. Scripture, because you are ignoring a TON of irrevocable promises God made concerning Israel (including in Romans 11).

You assume that I am ignorant, because I hold to a view you think is contrary to Scripture. You ignore passages like Galatians 3 (which teaches that the Church is the beneficiary of the Abrahamic covenant) and 1Pe. 2 (which ascribes to the Church the benefits of the Sinaitic covenant); as well as the unanimous teaching of Christianity until the mid-1800's.

Ignorant of life because you have the audacity to compare Assad with Bush. In short, get saved. It will change your outlook.

This is even more offensive. I'm "unsaved," because I believe the actions Pres. Bush took have caused unnecessary suffering of civilians in Iraq? Somehow, Evangelical Christians came to assume that Jesus Christ was a white, middle-class Republican and therefore infer that anyone who disagrees with the Republican Party must disagree with Christianity. Never mind that Christians were the driving force behind the Social Reforms of the early 1900's. Never mind that the Bible commands compassion - including financial support - for the alien, the orphan, and the widow. (Sounds a lot like a rudimentary welfare program!) Never mind that the Old Testament is littered with prohibitions against exploitation of workers. "Blessed are the peacemakers" must be ignored, since that must be the teachings of some hippie radical.

Thankfully, Christianity is experiencing a resurgence of radical orthodoxy. It's orthodox, because it recognizes the teachings of historic Christianity (and so cannot really be called theologically "liberal,") but it is radical in its application to its day-to-day life. Warren isn't really a part of that movement (he's too into the commoditization of Christianity to be a part of it), but it would appear that he is certainly not an enemy.

[jude24]

With the exception of abortion (which is really a non-issue, since the Supreme Court will not overturn Roe in our lifetimes, regardless of its makeup; and given the recent vote in South Dakota, a human life amendment would never be ratified in 3/4's of the States), I like what I see in Obama's stances.

I'd want to know more, but he sure seems like the kind of Democrat this country needs more of.

[L,TOWM]

Don't be sad for the congregation.

Warren's "church" is cafeteria christianity at its finest -- theology a mile wide and a micron thick; little more than another SoCal self - help cult.

Those who wish to get their ears tickled are probably not on the narrow path anyway -- though I am sure that some of the attendees have hearts totally sold out to Jesus.

[jude24]

Warren may be providing Obama with credibility in the Christian community (and beyond), which IMO is a huge mistake.

Considering I've heard an elder at my church who is very intrigued by Obama already, I doubt if Warren is going to give him any credibility he doesn't already have.

[Muzzle_em]

Sounds like Saddleback is supporting "Brokeback."

[scripter]

I'd want to know more, but he sure seems like the kind of Democrat this country needs more of.

Okay. You're scaring me.

[Gamecock]

Companion Thread

[scripter]

Considering I've heard an elder at my church who is very intrigued by Obama already, I doubt if Warren is going to give him any credibility he doesn't already have.

Now you're really scaring me.

[Lurking in Kansas]

Don't be sad for the congregation.

Warren's "church" is cafeteria christianity at its finest -- theology a mile wide and a micron thick; little more than another SoCal self - help cult.

Those who wish to get their ears tickled are probably not on the narrow path anyway -- though I am sure that some of the attendees have hearts totally sold out to Jesus.

I generally agree with you. However, I’m sure many, many folk there are true seekers wanting the Truth and to find the Answer. I’m sad for those because I’m afraid they will not find the Truth there.

[chuckles]

Here's all you need to preach from the pulpit on AIDS.

" NO fornication, NO sodomy, NO needles, NO AIDS!" "AMEN, Pass the plate."

I don't know why we have to have all these conferences and money raisers. How expensive is it to keep your pants on?

[Mamzelle]

We're going to hear a lot from Warren. He'll be a great tool to chip away some evangelical votes from the GOP--he's got cred and a following.

Bet Tony Campolo is seething with jealousy! (g)

I mean, it's not like the elites or the intellectuals in the GOP really wanted evangelicals around in the first place. The Jewish/Catholic (no Baptists allowed) National Review today has a sorrowful piece on how sophisticated "creative class" VA-Webb suburbanites just get the icky shudders with the social-issue religious voter. The NR, along with almost all the "conservative" punditry, have longed to cut the observant Protestants loose from the GOP. Now, with the new anti-conservative Bush in place, they'll have their way.

That same article in the National Review Online rather ignored that Webb got 50K votes from the Muslim Corridor in N Va. Too scary to notice, I guess. About 90% of the Muslims in Va voted for Webb. But the suburbanites and Catholic schoolgirl editors at NRO do fret so! over Assemblies of God having any say in politics. Bah. Pointless, effete girlies and girley boys at the NRO...determined to make us lose as long as we lose politely.

[Alex Murphy]

How expensive is it to keep your pants on?

It's always less expensive than letting them drop.

Just ask Ted Haggard.

[Deport Billary]

After Warren destroyed traditional worship, it only follows that he would revisit traditional values as well. As a church musician, I have grown to despise the Purpose Driven movement. The Church's magnificent choral tradition has been replaced by unimaginative crap. As organists and choirs are replaced by "praise" bands, the musically-inclined youth have no incentive to study the fine arts.

[Coldwater Creek]

It would really be interesting to hear how Warren got on this path. He was educated at the same schools that my family went to, and they are very conservative Baptist schools.

[Blogger]

Drivel. I do not ignore ANY Scripture. Yes, the Church has been made a beneficiary of the Abrahamic Covenant. But, we were GRAFTED INTO the vine. We did not obliterate it. That is SCRIPTURE. You have taken one portion of scripture while ignoring the rest. That is the root of your error.

God will revisit his people Israel, and that remnant that he speaks of in Jeremiah, in Zechariah, in Romans 11, in Revelation WILL return to Him and be saved. He will be their God and they shall be His people. He shall save them from their sins. THIS IS SCRIPTURE. And, yes, your view IS contrary to Scripture.

Now, to your other points - and the offence which you took. You have in effect called God a liar concerning Israel and ignorred the plethora of verses concerning his promises to her, so there is some grounds to question the rest of your view of Scripture. << I'm "unsaved," because I believe the actions Pres. Bush took have caused unnecessary suffering of civilians in Iraq? >> No. Because you call God a liar by throwing away his promises to His people Israel. You could think Bush was the anti-Christ. That has nothing to do with it. Your view of Scripture and God's truth does.

I certainly question anyone who ignores portions of Scripture in their own misguided quest to make the church the best thing that ever was. Remember the warning of Romans. He grafted us in. He can take us out again. Don't be conceited in thinking that God has thrown Israel away. (And yes, I do refer to you with the 'us' as I doubt that you are unsaved, but good grief, you're missing some big Scriptural points).

<> Nice rhetoric, but it is untrue. The vast majority of evangelicals believe that Jesus was a Jew from Israel. They may vote Republican because they are pro-life. But social conservatives, which have a large representation among evangelicals vote Republican on principle and question people when they ignore those basic principles (freedom to worship as we see fit, freedom to breathe our first breath, etc.,). Republicanism or Bush have nothing to do with it in and of themselves and if either steps away from those core beliefs most Christians will drop them like a rock (provided that an even worse evil isn't lurking to take their place if the Republican were to lose such as in this election).

Back to you. Assad is a terrorist. You are not unsaved for believing that he is someone to be negotiated with. You are just painfully ignorant of reality. Take offense if you will, but it is the kind of thinking will get us hit again.

<< Never mind that Christians were the driving force behind the Social Reforms of the early 1900's.>> Uh, yeah. I was a history professor among other things, so, yes, I'm aware of this. And???? What have I said that says we shouldn't try to reform society? Because I question why Obama, a liberal socialistic abortion loving creep would be allowed to step in a church's pulpit? Sounds like the shepherd inviting a predator into the sheepfold to me.

<< Never mind that the Bible commands compassion - including financial support - for the alien, the orphan, and the widow. (Sounds a lot like a rudimentary welfare program!) >> Close, but not quite. Yes, we are to help those who need help. The Bible also is specific in that we should be helping the Widows and orphans WHO ARE PART OF THE BELIEVERS IMMEDIATE CIRCLE: "If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed. " And, it also says if you don't work, you don't eat.(2 Thessalonians 3:10).

With that said, I agree there is a lot socially that the Church should be doing. We have handed over that responsibility to the Government, which is wrong. Nevertheless, neither of these have anything to do with your supporting the terrorist Assad, ignoring God's passages concerning Israel, and equating Bush with Assad.

<<"Blessed are the peacemakers" must be ignored, since that must be the teachings of some hippie radical. >> Cute. Welcome to life. There will be war in life. Paul said WHEREVER IT IS AT ALL POSSIBLE, live in Peace. Sometimes it is not possible. Jesus said, I come not to bring peace but a sword. Some things are worth taking up arms over. They are not prohibited by God's Scripture.

<> Radical orthodoxy? How about Scriptural literacy? We do not have to rely upon the teachings of men to determine what is right or wrong. we have Scripture. Throw all of man's traditions down the Toilet. ALL OF THEM. God's Word is Sufficient.

<< Warren isn't really a part of that movement (he's too into the commoditization of Christianity to be a part of it), but it would appear that he is certainly not an enemy.>> You obviously haven't been a part of a church that tried to implement his purpose driven Christianity. It is wrecking churches. It casts off those who have supported the church for their whole lives and gives a lukewarm watered down Christianity to those it reaches. He is certainly worth being concerned over if he isn't fully from the dark side.

Remember, in the end times people will heap up unto themselves teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. They will not endure sound doctrine. They will not follow God. And, they will receive the just recompence for their sins.

Strong BIBLICAL churches is what is needed. Not a demographically driven mushy targeted advertising campaign applied to the church.

[Blogger]

I am in a praise band. Some of the music done is meaty. Most of it, however, is mediocre at best. The hymns and deeper theological songs have gone by the way side - and it is all because of a purpose driven mentality. Our church is not a healthy church right now because of it and hearts are broken all over the congregation. I stay because God has given me a teaching ministry there and because He hasn't said I could step down from the praise band.

[Cecily]

Just one puffed-up hack preaching at another puffed-up hack's church. You know, the Robert Schuller model.

[safisoft]

Israel is not "God's People" - that is the Church (see 1Pe. 2:9, Mt. 21:33-46, Luk. 3:8-9). (Yeah; I believe in supracessionism. The Church always has. So what?)

Supercessionism is a lie from the pit of Hell. You can go on and on about what consitutes "orthodoxy" but you will NEVER find any Scripture to support such onerous and wicked concepts as supercessionism. It, like so many things the "church" has done, plain and simply calls G-d a liar. Divine curses are all such theologies can expect. Read Romans 11 and get down off your arrogant perch.

[Osage Orange]

Ain't a town...it's a mountain.