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To: murphE

Sorry about the delay in getting back to your question, I was busy. First, let me apologize if I sounded glib or condescending, but know too that I can be all those things and so much more, lol.

The article I posted was supposed to show how even innocent people can be convicted of crimes that they do not commit. The opposite is also true, guilty people often walk away with no conviction or punishment. (I'm seeing an image of O.J. as I write that last sentence.) "Justice" in often flawed, incomplete, and in many cases, non-existent in this world. God's justice, on the other hand, is perfect. An innocent Man (and God) died on Calvary, that sacrifice being the ultimate example of human injustice.

I don't have the time to go into a whole discourse on Church doctrine and philosophy through the ages, but remember, the Church taught that the earth was flat at one time too, but that's another story.

Let's start with the following info:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm

I. TRUE MEANING OF INFALLIBILITY

"It is well to begin by stating the ecclesiological truths that are assumed to be established before the question of infallibility arises. It is assumed:

that Christ founded His Church as a visible and perfect society; that He intended it to be absolutely universal and imposed upon all men a solemn obligation actually to belong to it, unless inculpable ignorance should excuse them; that He wished this Church to be one, with a visible corporate unity of faith, government, and worship; and that in order to secure this threefold unity, He bestowed on the Apostles and their legitimate successors in the hierarchy -- and on them exclusively -- the plenitude of teaching, governing, and liturgical powers with which He wished this Church to be endowed."

Your following comment is actually true: "Church men were given no such promise". I don't think you may realize it, but that statement actually supports the argument against capital punishment. Basically, man is by his very nature sinful and flawed and therefore prone to error. Human beings and their institutions make mistakes, sometimes by accident and sometimes on purpose. Human life is too precious in the eyes of God for human beings to play at being God.

Romans 12:

17 Repay no one evil for evil. Respect what is honorable in the sight of all men.

18 If it is possible, as much as it is up to you, be at peace with all men.

19 Don't seek revenge yourselves, beloved, but give place to God's wrath. For it is written, "Vengeance belongs to me; I will repay, says the Lord."

20 Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in doing so, you will heap coals of fire on his head."

21 Don't be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.


64 posted on 11/20/2006 8:05:47 PM PST by khnyny (God Bless the Republic for which it stands)
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To: khnyny
The article I posted was supposed to show how even innocent people can be convicted of crimes that they do not commit. The opposite is also true, guilty people often walk away with no conviction or punishment.

Agreed. However the article you cited is an example of "the legal and judicious exercise of which they [the civil authorities] punish the guilty and protect the innocent".

"Justice" in often flawed, incomplete, and in many cases, non-existent in this world. God's justice, on the other hand, is perfect.

Agreed.

An innocent Man (and God) died on Calvary, that sacrifice being the ultimate example of human injustice.

The Innocent Man, God the Son, acknowledged the judgement of the civil authority as God's will and embraced it.

"Pilate therefore saith to him: Speakest thou not to me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and I have power to release thee?
Jesus answered: Thou shouldst not have any power against me, unless it were given thee from above."
John19:10-11.

but remember, the Church taught that the earth was flat at one time too,

No, it didn't. And if it had it would not be a matter of faith and morals and therefore not binding so that is irrelevant.

Basically, man is by his very nature sinful and flawed and therefore prone to error.

Sure, because of our corrupted nature we are prone to sin and error, that is why Our Lord gave the Church and the pope the charism of infallibility in certain circumstances, to protect the Church from formally teaching and binding the faithful to error.

Romans 12:...

Your private interpretations of these scripture verses to support an anti capital punishment position are at odds with the infallibly protected constant teaching of the Church which supports the legitimate use of capital punishment by civil authorities to punish the guilty and to protect the innocent as just. I'm going to go with the latter.

78 posted on 11/22/2006 8:10:03 AM PST by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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