Posted on 11/22/2006 11:33:43 AM PST by kiriath_jearim
The long-awaited consultation paper by the Irish government-appointed legal watchdog on legitimate defence has called for the introduction of new laws to safeguard homeowners who are confronted by violent intruders.
Eight people have been killed in their homes since 2000 - four in the last 14 months alone - and there are an estimated 500 burglaries carried out each week.
The stage has now been set for another intensive debate on home-defence laws and marks the first step towards the enactment of so-called "make-my-day" laws that sanction force in self-defence and the defence of property on the basis of reasonable response to violence.
The commission had withheld publication of the key report pending the outcome of the Padraig Nally appeal. The Co Mayo farmer admitted shooting dead a Traveller who had trespassed on his farm. The case is subject of a retrial, which will begin next month.
The commission said last night it was vital that homeowners are entitled to clear legal guidance on the amount of force they are allowed to use to defend their property. It said that defence of legitimate defence, incorporating the limited licence to kill, should be set out in a comprehensive criminal statute.
"Limitations should be specified in clear rules and not swept up in a meaningless legal concept of reasonableness," said Finbarr McAuley, a commissioner and co-author of the report.
"In a democracy, a citizen is entitled to detailed guidance on the proper limits of what he or she can lawfully do. Self-defence is one example of when citizens are entitled to know what legal limits apply.
"Legitimate defence is about defining one's limits at the same time as protecting your own rights."
The commission's paper, which is at a consultation stage, could provide the template for new home defence laws. But all issues of fact at trials will be the sole preserve of juries.
The commission has also recommended that individuals confronted with the threat of rape or aggravated sexual assault should be entitled to use lethal force once certain legal criteria have been met.
The right to use lethal force is not a carte blanche for homeowners and the right to kill would be subject to strict legal limits, it said.
It is envisaged that homeowners and others who would seek to rely on the defence would have to meet a series of requirements, including imminence and type of attack, necessity and proportionality of force used to justify a killing.
The commission also recommends that a mininum threshold should be imposed on the use of lethal force in order to uphold the sanctity of life, including that of an attacker.
The commission said that killing an intruder or other assailant was justified on a "lesser-of-two-evils" basis.
Last night the Government said that proposals for a change in the law on home defence will be brought by the Tanaiste and Justice Minister Michael McDowell.
A spokeswoman for Mr McDowell confirmed the preparation of new legislation, saying he welcomed the commission's contribution to the debate on legitimate defence.
The Minister would now give serious consideration to the matter "in view of its importance to the public as a whole".
The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform has been considering the legal issues involved and will now take into consideration the various issues which have been raised in the Law Reform Commission's consultation paper.
Fine Gael and Labour last night welcomed the Law Reform Commission's comments on the right to armed defence of the home.
Labour's deputy leader, Brendan Howlin, said the use of guns and weapons had become increasingly common in Irish society. It was, therefore, important for law-enforcement agents and the general public to have as much clarity as possible in regard to what level of force was allowed by law.
"We welcome the commission's call on the rights of people faced with an intruder in their home, and in particular to put common law rules on a firm statutory footing," Mr Howlin added.
Fine Gael Justice spokesman Jim O'Keeffe also welcomed the recommendation that homeowners should not be forced to retreat if they find an intruder on their property.
"We have been arguing for greater legal protection for homeowners faced with burglars in their homes," he said.
The Proper Role of Government [in self defense]
Address:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1742693/posts
Lots of good home defense advice here on FR for the Irish to review!
I personally wouldn't ask Bertie permission to shoot a burgular! (I know, I'm in an extremist mood tonight! ;))
"Surely, though, this common sense discussion will be the source of endless condemnation in the British MSM."
I doubt the 'British MSM' will spare too much space to discuss a proposed law in Ireland tbh.
"it is important to ensure that all those acting reasonably and in good faith to defend themselves, their family, their property or in the prevention of crime or the apprehension of offenders are not prosecuted for such action"
"Prosecutors should exercise particular care when assessing the reasonableness of the force used in those cases in which the alleged victim was, or believed by the accused to have been, at the material time, engaged in committing a crime. A witness to violent crime with a continuing threat of violence may well be justified in using extreme force to remove a threat of further violence.
In assessing whether it was necessary to use force, prosecutors should bear in mind the period of time in which the person had to decide whether to act against another who he/she thought to be committing an offence."
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/section5/chapter_d.html
For example if a person breaks into your house and he has a weapon (knife gun club etc) and you shoot him, and he falls down incapacitated, and is no longer a threat, you should be in good stead. But if you go over and shoot him again, you might have gone too far. - tom
There is law, and there is "THE LAW", the one that has existed since before the invention, of any government, by men. Defense of family, friends, then myself, then property, is something I WILL undertake, without wasting time on legal nuance. I am not likely to dial 911, and wait, for government instructions.
One thing I count on is that the UK will screw up on this issue, once again, rather than allow anyone, to ever suspect, that they can survive, without the wisdom and protection of the King! I know why all my European ancestors got kicked out, and over here, they got fed up with all the old world crap!
"One thing I count on is that the UK will screw up on this issue, once again, rather than allow anyone, to ever suspect, that they can survive, without the wisdom and protection of the King!"
The article is referring to Ireland, not the UK.
Is encouraging him to get up off limits too? You know, get up so I can shoot him again.
What about emptying the weapon before he hits the floor. Would five hits be counted as self defense? That's the other option so you don't have to encourage him to get up, make darn sure he is going down and going to stay down.
After centuries of UK domination, is there that much difference? This is a simple issue, not a matter for debate, except by politicians, with a tendency toward tyranny.
"After centuries of UK domination, is there that much difference?"
I guess I'll let one of the Irish Freepers answer that!
What about emptying the weapon before he hits the floor. Would five hits be counted as self defense? That's the other option so you don't have to encourage him to get up, make darn sure he is going down and going to stay down.
These are the things that jurys have to decide.
One advantage of a lone dead intruder in your home is the police only get your side of the story. - tom
"I guess I'll let one of the Irish Freepers answer that"!
"Really, why should self defense ever be an item of debate, anywhere?"
The debate seems to be concerning how to frame the wording of the law. I don't see anybody arguing that there should be no right to self-defense. There's probably someone somewhere, if you look hard enough.
"Exactly what is the problem with this concept of defending one's home and family"?
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