Skip to comments.From Russia, minus love
Posted on 11/24/2006 5:34:19 PM PST by A. Pole
click here to read article
Did you read post #48?
same thing. Those having polonium for the nukes are not going to part with it. Dirty bomb is best done with high grade nuclear waste - spent fuel rods, or concentrates from their re-processing. Polonium is way too valuable a stuff to waste on a dirty bomb. Besides, Litvinenko was no threat to iranians. WhyAnd to suggest a suicidal deal is the top of absurdity. kegebuns [like litvinenko] went through enough military-style training - if there were polonium spill next to the food, they would be running out of there screaming, to burn their clothes and to take good long showers. Most certainly they would not be eating there. Besides, polonium for the nukes does not happen as a loose dusty powder [too dangerous in manufacture and usage], nor as dilute solution to spray on the food. Weapons grade nuclear materials come as compact bodies, with protecting [chemically and mechanically] containers. So, even the attempted assembly of a working nuke in London does not hold water.
Smuggling to iran from russia needs not to be done through England [why not New Zealand as a transit point?]- they share a water border in Caspian. Simpler, easier, no prying eyes, less possibility for the things going awry. As William of Occam used to say, "thou shalt not complicate". Why scratch one's left ear with the right hand from behind over one's groin?
Of course, he could have been just murdered by Putin's Russia.<BR.
Precisely. And no alternatives, if one has any idea of what putin's [and even without putin's] russia is. It is in the character.
==It is in the character.
It is also in their character to smuggle polonium 210 to rogue regimes.
Government-to government transfer [even through special services] would be done by an airplane from one of their military fields straight to tehran or some other place in iran. Do not complicate. Do not allow your imagination to run too wild. Do not see magicians, dungeons and dragons where there are none - just a bunch of the worst scoundrels you could imagine. They are not geniuses, though.
It's still possible that the P 210 was destined for England itself. There is a large and radical Muslim community there with connection to rogue regimes that would love to get their hands on it (for use in England, or elsewhere). Or, conversely, it may have been destined for England to accomplish the very purpose that Gordievsky would have us believe...to murder Litvinenko. To my mind it's too early to tell. But the fact that Gordievsky is pushing this theory makes me very suspicious. I Googled Gordievsky and came up with the following excerpt. I know Golitsyn is a controversial figure, so let's put him aside for the moment. It is the evidence against Gordievsky himself that concerns me (Epstein has the same distrust and suspicions about him btw):
"Oleg Gordievsky, an officer in the KGBs First Chief Directorate, joined this growing list of double agents in 1974, when he first began leaking secrets to Englands MI6. In 1985, he defected to the West under suspicious circumstances. Although supposedly arrested by the KGB on suspicion of spying for England, he was not executed. 'A generation earlier he would simply have been liquidated,' writes Gordievsky (with a co-author) of himself. 'Nowadays the KGB had to have evidence.'8 Starting with this obvious lie, Gordievskys story becomes even more absurd. Despite his arrest for treason, he claims the KGB nevertheless allowed him enough freedom that he could repeatedly make contact with British agents and even escape the Soviet Union itself on foot.9 To top it all off, his family was subsequently released from the Soviet Union.10 "
"Unlike Golitsyn, who still remains under deep cover to prevent assassination by the Soviets, Gordievsky maintains a high-profile life in London. Gordievsky insists that the KGB has had no spies in British intelligence since 1961, and ridicules former MI5 officer Peter Wright for fingering over 200 suspects including former MI5 director Sir Roger Hollis as a result of investigations under project FLUENCY. Gordievsky also bitterly denies Golitsyns revelation of the existence of Department D in the KGB, while he staunchly defends Nosenko as a genuine defector. Gordievsky has advised such prominent individuals as Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Presidents Ronald Reagan and George Bush, and his 1990 book, KGB: The Inside Story, has been published widely.11"
It is still possible that I win Powerball jackpot, although I do not even play lottery. Do not complicate. I see the case is open and shut, with the only thing left to do is naming, tracing, and liquidating the kegebuns involved.
As someone else mentioned, there could be a variety of reasons why the P 210 was smuggled to England. All we know is it got as far as London. There are a variety of reasons why it could have been smuggled there. For instance, it could have been in transit, a test or to provide bona fides, etc. The most obvious conclusion, the one that is being broadcasted to anyone who will listen by Gordievsky, may just be a cover. I'm not ruling out your interpretation, but let's remember the KGB have carried out many similar operations in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. On that, there is no doubt in my mind.
"When you are dealing with the wilderness of mirrors,"
What wilderness of mirrors?
What part of "Russians are the worst genocidal murders of all time" do you not understand?
I understand that very well. It's one of the reasons, combined with the KGB's history and their building of Iran's nuclear program, that makes me believe there is more to this picture than meets the eye. If my suspicions are correct, this case involves Russia in something far worse than the murder of a Putin critic.
==naming, tracing, and liquidating the kegebuns involved.
On that, we both agree. I would only add conclusively figuring out why the P 210 was there in the first place, and, potentially, where it was going.
it was going in Litvinenko's food.
What is the risk to other people from the dose Mr Litvinenko received?
It cannot pass through the skin, and must be ingested or inhaled (or delivered through a wound as per above--GGG) into the body to cause damage.
And because the radiation has a very short range, it only harms nearby tissue, so those who came into contact with him are at very little risk.
William Gelletly, professor of physics at the University of Surrey, said: "Polonium-210 is very unlikely to have contaminated any staff who treated Mr Litvinenko or anyone who came in contact with him since they would have had to ingest or breathe in the contaminated fluids from his body."
"If my suspicions are correct, this case involves Russia in something far worse than the murder of a Putin critic."
Nobody's biting - if it walks and talks like a duck - guess what?
This is another in a LONG line of enemies of the Kremlin that have been liquidated - well over 100 million by now.
That's too bad. Well, I pretty much have it narrowed down to either Litvinenko was setup by Gordievsky (probably a phony defector) and co., or he died accidentally in a smuggling operation. Time will tell (hopefully).
"Well, I pretty much have it narrowed down to either Litvinenko was setup by Gordievsky (probably a phony defector) and co., or he died accidentally in a smuggling operation."
Pray tell by what leap of faith are you ignoring Putin's duplicity in liquidating his enemies.
"Litvinenko is himself a phony defector "
Next you'll announce Christmas is canceled as he was also Santa Claus.
Certainly Moscow did not do it. If they did they would use something else than dioxin. As well you can try to poison someone with DDT. It is loony and dumb to believe such conspiracy theory.
More likely he was murdered by someone who wanted to embarrass Putin during the Helsinki meeting with EU.
There is one assassination for which one could suspect Russia. It was death of Yandarbiev in Qatar Such killing makes sense.
Litvinenko was a little fish. There are much more attractive targets in UK but it is very dubious that Russians would risk alienating the British.
You logic is circular. You think that Putin ordered idiotic crimes because he is a nasty (and stupid) "snake", and this that he ordered it proves that his is indeed such a character.A because B and B because of A.
If he wanted to play such game he would start with Zakayev. It would be more useful and would gain more respect.
No. But I do maintain that Litvinenko at a minimum got himself mixed up the a phony defector, Gordievsky. Gordievsky is either connected to the murder, or in on the smuggling operation IMO. And since he is still among the living, part of the investigation into Litvinenko's premature demise should focus on him.
LOL! You are too funny. "When an evil empire returns"
Maybe. It's definitely a thought. One I admit to not minding actually.
Many would argue that it never left in the first place.
=If he wanted to play such game he would start with Zakayev.
==Maybe. It's definitely a thought. One I admit to not minding actually.
Why is that exactly?
The many would be right.
Of couse, it has never left. See # 31 on this very thread.
One cannot embarrass putin even if one wanted to, just like one cannot make sh*t even more sh*tty. It is a logical impossibility. And as for "making sense" - it has to make sense in the "Russity" reference framework. MadIvan summed it up for you [I believe] excellently, either on this or on another thread. "The message to defectors - we can get you anywhere, and we do not give a damn about it - was delivered, and delivered effectively" [quoting in paraphrase]. So, barbari sunt, barbarice egit. And returning to the start - how could one embarrass a barbarian, especially the chief one? His own barbarity makes him immune to any further embarrassment.
Yes, very interesting. But doesn't Berezovsky remember the fate of Georgi Markov in London? He best stay clear of all umbrellas...
Sheesh, not to mention the latest UK casualty, Litvinenko, also.
There is a rich report in the Independent UK today about a theory that Litvinenko poisoned himself to discredit Putin! How fantastic is that? The sources used by the Independent must be the FSB...
I cannot post the article here or even an excerpt though.
I heard that they are now trying to spin this as a smuggling ring of ex-KGB folks dealing with this type of material...Somehow it kind of makes sense...
But why if you are doing your own money making deal would you accuse Putin of poisoning you, if you screw up and get exposed???
None of the other folks in this deal got sick...
Nobody's really making a big deal out of this issue...
Yeah, that may be true...
That reverse psychology only works on mear mortals! hehehe
Maybe they wanted us to think that he was anti-Putin, while he was really pro-Putin, but thinking that we knew he was pro-Putin, but anti-Putin just to throw us off...
You know...Come to think of it...There's just too much Putin going around, don't you think???
I need some air...
That's the crap you have to deal with when you enter the "wilderness of mirrors." \
Polonium-210 [the most recent diagnosis as per poison used] is available in the corner mom and pop stores, one presumes. ==
Accually you may buy it on Internet. Link: http://www.unitednuclear.com/isotopes.htm .. The price isn't big: $69. What you say now?:)
Even Yushchenko's people now deny the Russians had anything to do with the poisoning.
You read way too far into my point. My point is simply that the UK is obviously NOT 100% safe for Russian dissidents and the like, as Boris appears to claim.
And thanks for your helpful e-mails.
Good! You sound like you might have what it takes to be an intelligence analyst. The alphabets here in the U.S. are always looking for people like you.