Posted on 12/04/2006 1:43:44 PM PST by SJackson
Terrific and informative article.
One notes that every society that has expelled the Jews has subsequently failed. More than coincidence?
One reason is Haman Jr is running the show - right now.
It is not clear:
England expelled Jews in 1290 by a decree of King Edward I, they well allowed to reside since 1656 by Cromwell but in small numbers. In second half of XIX century the restrictions were relaxed.
In Sweden Jews were allowed only on the condition of conversion to Christianity and only since XVIIIc a small number of them were allowed.
Poland had reverse policy - large numbers of Jews were allowed to settle in Poland since late Middle Ages until partitions of Poland (XIVc to XVIIIc)
Turkey allowed large Jewish settlement since XV century.
And if you read my post, you will see that I have said that we have tried. If you also read the State Department's human rights report for Saudi Arabia, that is noted. There are limits to what we can do with a "friend and ally."
"To note" is not enough and one could offer something in exchange. Must be that getting even minimum freedoms for Christians is not a priority.
Offer what, smart alec. The US is not omnipotent. There are limits to what we can do. The leader of Saudi Arabia is titled officially, "Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques." Having lived five years in the Kingdom, no Saudi leader is going to decree that Christians be given rights. The only Christians in the Kingdom are foreigners who are sponsored to work there or diplomats. Women can't drive cars, including foreigners. Any change is going to occur from within and not from outside pressure.
Maybe you are right. But one at least can try. Can you give me examples of some real effort to really improve or protect the position of Christians in Middle East, other than using them as a pretext to criticize/undermine regimes more tolerant than Saudis.
The USG has established annual reporting, similar to the Human Rights reporting, on religious freedom around the world. Their is no state religion in the US. Since when did the US become the world's leader on protecting and improving the position of Christians around the globe? What are the Europeans doing in that regard? What is Poland doing?
I am surprised that an avowed Communist, like yourself, is so concerned about the welfare of Christians. Perhaps it is you who are using the issue as a pretext to criticize the United States.
International Religious Freedom
During the reporting period, the U.S. ambassador met with senior government and religious leaders regarding religious freedom, and raised specific cases of violations with senior officials. Senior U.S. officials discussed with the Government their policies concerning religious practice and tolerance. This made it possible to identify and confirm a number of key policies that the Government is pursuing and will continue to pursue for the purposes of promoting greater freedom for religious practice and increased tolerance for religious groups. Senior U.S. officials called on the Government to enforce its public commitment to allow private religious practice and to respect the rights of Muslims who do not follow the conservative Hanbali tradition of Sunni Islam. U.S. government officials also raised their concerns over the dissemination of intolerant literature and an extremist ideology with the Government.
In addition, embassy officers met with ministry of foreign affairs officials at various other times to discuss matters pertaining to religious freedom. In September 2005, the secretary of state redesignated Saudi Arabia as a Country of Particular Concern (CPC) under the International Religious Freedom Act (IRFA). In connection with this designation, Secretary Rice issued a waiver of sanctions "to further the purposes of the Act."
"On numerous occasions, the U.S. State Department spokesman has addressed the situation of the Baha'i and Jewish communities in the country. The U.S. government has publicly condemned the treatment of the Baha'is in UN resolutions, including one that passed in the General Assembly in 2005. The U.S. government has encouraged other governments to make similar statements. Since 1999, the Secretary of State has designated Iran as a "Country of Particular Concern" under the International Religious Freedom Act for particularly severe violations of religious freedom."
Dear Sir, I am an avowed Christian. And my economic/social views do not differ from Papal Encyclicals (which in my view define the standard what the REAL conservatism is):
The issue whether Christians are allowed to practice their religion is NUMBER ONE on the list of my priorities. Much more important than whether we live in a market based or socialist economy, or whether we live in a republic or in a monarchy.
America is the indispenable nation, but there are limits to what we can and should do. Let Europe expend more on defense rather than depending on US to shoulder a bigger and bigger portion of the burden. Europe has lived under the US security umbrella for so long, it has forgotten what the real world is like. The anti-US jackals have emerged from their holes since the fall of the Soviet empire, but the day will come when they will come begging again for the US to come to the rescue. The rise of islamic fundamentalism from Spain to Sweden to Holland to France will test Europe's defense of Christianity and its values. Instead of focusing on the rights of Christians in Saudi Arabia, you ought to start first at home.
bump
I am all for Polish government using its limited influence to lobby for better treatment of Christians in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.
Instead of focusing on the rights of Christians in Saudi Arabia, you ought to start first at home.
I think that granting even a limited freedom for Christians in Saudi Arabia would have tremendous effect all over the world. It is Saudis who preserve the double standard of suppressing Christian at home while freely promoting their version of Islam in Christian countries. A little of reciprocity would be just, fair and would go a long way toward better international relations.
Saudis do enjoy good relations with the West and West benefits from it, yet somehow the freedom for their Christian brethren is one benefit which is not on Western politicians agenda. They will rather lobby for the gay parades in Warsaw that one little chapel open in Riyadh.
I am all for global peace and the elimination of poverty. What are you personally doing about the better treatment of Christians in Saudi Arabia and what specifically is the Polish government doing about it now? Has the Polish government issued a demarche' to the Saudis? Does the Polish government issue annual reports on religious freedom on every country in the world, like the US does?
I think that granting even a limited freedom for Christians in Saudi Arabia would have tremendous effect all over the world. It is Saudis who preserve the double standard of suppressing Christian at home while freely promoting their version of Islam in Christian countries. A little of reciprocity would be just, fair and would go a long way toward better international relations.
So what is Poland doing about it? What are you doing about it? Perhaps, you should lobby the Polish government to break off diplomatic relations with the Saudis until this reciprocity is achieved?
Saudis do enjoy good relations with the West and West benefits from it, yet somehow the freedom for their Christian brethren is one benefit which is not on Western politicians agenda. They will rather lobby for the gay parades in Warsaw that one little chapel open in Riyadh.
Talk is cheap. Let Poland and Europe take the lead on this one. And let Europe talk Iran out of developing nuclear weapons using some reciprocity.
Islam happens.
Try not to step in it.
Sheesh. They're as cynical as us.
BTTT
Later next century....
Do you even thing the subject came up?
Human-rights advocates believe the Bush administration will tolerate Saudi abuse of human rights as long as the Saudi royal family supports the war on terrorism. U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld met recently with Saudi leaders to shore up support for the American-led campaign against the Taliban.
More than a dozen Christians imprisoned in Saudi Arabia since last summer
and
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.