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Must Study Harder (Mark Steyn Rips The Iraq Surrender Group A New Clymer Alert)
National Review ^ | 12/06/2006 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 12/07/2006 12:10:32 AM PST by goldstategop

Isn’t the main problem with the Iraq Study Group that it’s just majorly lame? Almost anybody could crank out this kind of generalized boilerplate (“We were told by a general/a translator/my taxi driver/my Ukrainian hooker…”), and most of us could do it without a budget of gazillions of dollars and an Annie Leibovitz photo session.

Of course, Syria “should” do this and Iran “should” do that and, if they were Sandra Day O’Connor, I’m sure they would. But they’re not. And the only specific strategic proposal is a linkage between Iraq and a “renewed and sustained commitment” to a “comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace” – which concedes the same ludicrous rationale that the Saudi King Abdullah and all the rest of them make: that one tiny ten-mile sliver of Jews is the reason why millions of Muslims from the Straits of Gibraltar to the Emirates are mired in dictatorships, failed economies and jihadist fever. For the Baker group to endorse this clapped out pan-Arabism is disgusting. An “Arab-Israeli peace”? What does that mean? What exactly is Israel doing to Iraq, or Tunisia, or Qatar, or any other Arabs except those in the “Palestinian territories”? To frame it in those terms is to adopt the pathologies of the enemy. Shame on Baker, Hamilton and all the rest.

As for the insight on page 94 that so impressed Rich, yes, it’s true that the DIA and other analytical agencies don’t have a lot of strength in depth. But why is that? It’s certainly not because the US taxpayer isn’t showering them with dollars. It’s to do with a bureaucratic torpor that has proved almost totally resistant to any attempts to reform it since 9/11. And, while we may well “engage” with Syria and Iran to no effect, and US troops may well put their left foot in and take their right foot out, the one thing you can guarantee won’t be shaken all about is the torpid bureaucracy – of which this stillborn report is yet one more example


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: 1938; 911; alqaeda; appeasementdeluxe; bakerstudygroup; fauxrealism; iraq; iraqsurrendergroup; iraqwar; marksteyn; middleeast; munich; nationalreview; newclymer; studyharder; surrendergroup; surrendertjihad; trashbin; waronterror
Mark Steyn rips the Iraq Surrender Group a new clymer. There are things that are just so stupid and self-defeating they deserve to be consigned to the trash bin. This is one of them.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

1 posted on 12/07/2006 12:10:37 AM PST by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop
This report is a worse joke then the 9/11 commission

What the hell were they thinking
2 posted on 12/07/2006 12:16:59 AM PST by Mo1 (Thank You Mr & Mrs "I'm gonna teach you a lesson" Voter ... you just screwed us on so many levels)
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To: Mo1
Mark Steyn joke of the month:

"And, while we may well “engage” with Syria and Iran to no effect, and US troops may well put their left foot in and take their right foot out, the one thing you can guarantee won’t be shaken all about is the torpid bureaucracy..."

He does have an understated gift for making pompous blowhards look like the fools they are.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

3 posted on 12/07/2006 12:20:52 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

The study's valuable in one important way. It makes a threat that needs to be made, while allowing Bush to continue to play his current roll. The threat is, 'if you don't all start rowing, we're going to pull the plug and let you clowns drown'.

The uniformity of the responses from various Iraqi officials mades it clear that they think we owe them an unlimited amount of time to enrich themselves and accumulate personal power at the expense of the Iraqi people, and they're really startled to hear that we don't agree.

It's really a 'shot across the bow' fired from the schooner USS Plausable Deniability.


4 posted on 12/07/2006 12:29:58 AM PST by ArmstedFragg
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To: goldstategop
Iraq Study Group

We need to thank our creator that this group of 'realist' were not around making recommendations during the American Revolution...

Imagine their reactions and study conclusions after Valley Forge, etc. Every major American city fell to the British during that war!

5 posted on 12/07/2006 12:42:52 AM PST by Van Jenerette (U.S.Army 1967-1991 Infantry OCS, Hall of Fame, Ft. Benning Ga.)
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Having Iran and Syria be part of the 'Iraq Solution' is like having Charles Manson sit on the Supreme Court.


6 posted on 12/07/2006 12:50:46 AM PST by wodinoneeye
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To: goldstategop

Mr Steyn must be feeling really exasperated. This piece isn't funny, just bitter. The situation is truly dire.


7 posted on 12/07/2006 12:55:38 AM PST by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE)
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To: arthurus
Which dire are you referring to? IMHO the "direness" in Iraq at this point is a case of political mass hysteria. The political situation in America truly is dire, I'll hand you that.

I think Americans suffer from an unrealistic instant gratification syndrome. It's not just evident in Iraq, but it sure matters more in a war. People want to turn on their TV in about 90 minutes and catch how it all ended while they're channel surfing. Maybe reality is the "long hard slog" nobody wants to hear about.

Yes I digress fully now, but I've been around long enough to see that Americans no longer want to think about reality, they just want things. 85% wanted the war in Iraq, but now they just don't want to hear about it anymore.

8 posted on 12/07/2006 5:00:51 AM PST by Williams
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To: Williams

The situation in America is dire and that is leading to a severe degradation of the situation in Araby.


9 posted on 12/07/2006 5:13:35 AM PST by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE)
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To: goldstategop
It’s certainly not because the US taxpayer isn’t showering them with dollars. It’s to do with a bureaucratic torpor that has proved almost totally resistant to any attempts to reform it since 9/11.

Mark's a little off point here, but 100% correct. While the U.S. military mobilized for war, 9/11 did nothing to the civilian defense agencies in Washington. It's been business as usual for them. Many of them, especially the CIA, should have been gutted and refurbished, but instead we let everything plod along at the speed of bureaucracy.

The OSS went from 0-60 within a few months in WWII. What's our malfunction now?

10 posted on 12/07/2006 5:20:24 AM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: goldstategop

11 posted on 12/07/2006 5:23:12 AM PST by petercooper
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To: goldstategop

For the younger set, these words are from a great song - "Ballin' the Jack" once again demonstrating the breadth of this man's thinking processes.


12 posted on 12/07/2006 5:25:03 AM PST by BillM
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To: goldstategop

The only thing the ISG studied was the Cliff Notes version. Going to Iraq for a few weeks and writing 36 pages of pre-determined State Dept, pro-Arab drivel is akin to a bunch of college kids going to an upper level class for the last few days of the semester, getting together and writing their term paper based on what they did in their 100 level course. Pathetic.


13 posted on 12/07/2006 5:29:59 AM PST by TADSLOS (Mohammed was the L. Ron Hubbard of his time.)
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To: BillM

While Ballin the Jack is similar - I think Steyn went a little younger. It's the hokey pokey...


14 posted on 12/07/2006 5:38:44 AM PST by philsoc
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To: goldstategop
If I were the president, this is what I would do, congressional approval, UN approval, world approval or not. After getting the necessary assets in place, I would give Iran and Syria 48 hours to do the following: 1) turn over all of their governing officials to US troops at a designated location and 2) immediate cessation of all assistance to the insurgents. At the same time, I would demand that the Iraqi government hand over al-Sadr to US troops and if any other government officials protested, they be handed over as well. Failure to abide by these conditions would result in a nuclear bomb being dropped on Damascus and Tehran. To prove that the US means what it says a conventional (non nuclear) cruise missile strike would be launched to land somewhere outside these 2 cities. Additionally a cruise missile strike would be launched on Ramadi, the capital of the Anbar province, aka "Sunni land", to make sure the Sunnis and Baathists get the message that it is time for the killing to stop.

While this would cause consider outrage from all corners of the world, this would result in far fewer deaths than what we are likely to face if we let Iran develop the capability to have nuclear weapons. Radical Islamism must be defeated just as communism and fascism were. To not do so at this juncture would be irresponsible. The world may condemn us, but through the long lens of history will see that it had to be done.
15 posted on 12/07/2006 5:38:52 AM PST by FrankB (FrankB)
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To: arthurus

Funny takes time and lots of it. This was posted at 4:30 AM the morning after the report came out. Cut us some slack here.


16 posted on 12/07/2006 5:44:08 AM PST by twonie (Just because there are fewer of us don't mean we are wrong.)
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To: goldstategop
................– which concedes the same ludicrous rationale that the Saudi King Abdullah and all the rest of them make: that one tiny ten-mile sliver of Jews is the reason why millions of Muslims from the Straits of Gibraltar to the Emirates are mired in dictatorships, failed economies and jihadist fever

Excellent point.

17 posted on 12/07/2006 5:46:25 AM PST by Osage Orange (Every attempt to make war easy & safe will result in humiliation and disaster.-W. T. Sherman)
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To: petercooper

Re: Surrender Monkeys,

Today we are all French....


18 posted on 12/07/2006 5:50:20 AM PST by NeoCaveman (Rick Santorum in 2008, or 2012 or whenever we get serious about Islamofascism.)
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To: Osage Orange
which concedes the same ludicrous rationale that the Saudi King Abdullah

This is because Baker works for the Saudis.

L

19 posted on 12/07/2006 5:54:23 AM PST by Lurker (Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.)
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To: Mo1; All
"What were they thinking?'

They weren't thinking.
20 posted on 12/07/2006 5:55:16 AM PST by Gideon Reader ("The quiet gentleman sitting in the corner sipping his Kenya AA,,defaulted to the PO'ed position..)
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To: arthurus
Liberalism feeds upon it's own degradation of the culture. What we are seeing is accelerated entropic degradation. Whether it's murdering the unborn, economic and criminal victimology, sexual dementia and perversion, anti-American hatred, protecting communist and fascist dictators the world over, surrendering our borders to national sovereignty islamofascists and third world debris,
inculcating your children with liberal fantasy and propaganda, Liberals are destroying our lives, our country and future. The time has come for a violent revolution against Liberalism. Either act now or we are finished!
21 posted on 12/07/2006 5:58:27 AM PST by Doc Savage ("You couldn't tame me, but you taught me.................")
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To: Lurker

So I've heard........


22 posted on 12/07/2006 5:59:22 AM PST by Osage Orange (Every attempt to make war easy & safe will result in humiliation and disaster.-W. T. Sherman)
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To: ArmstedFragg

So long as that threat doesn't drive the shiites more into the arms of Syria, and the sunnis into the arms of Al Qaeda, since they will no longer trust us to help them get along.

The problem with most threats is that they end up strengthening our enemies, because the people we are threatening are facing life and death struggles and they are on the edge of a knife.

96% of the Iraqi people want to live peacefully -- this isn't a civil war, its a small number of people with strong support from evil neighbors causing strife and dissent.

The SAME thing could be happening here, and in fact IS happening here -- look at the illegal immigrant gangs terrorizing OUR neighborhoods.


23 posted on 12/07/2006 6:10:36 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: FrankB
I would demand that the Iraqi government hand over al-Sadr to US troops

That would really piss off al-Bakr, though.

24 posted on 12/07/2006 6:16:27 AM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: Lurker
This is because Baker works for the Saudis.

And why isn't the media covering this FACT?

All I see is reams of solicitous ass-kissing when they get him on camera. Fox had him on earlier and it was nauseating.

Why is al-Bakr given a pass on his role as Saudi defender?

25 posted on 12/07/2006 6:19:47 AM PST by Don Joe (We've traded the Rule of Law for the Law of Rule.)
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To: goldstategop

My goodness Mark, tell us how you really feel!

That might go down, very deservedly, in the Rant Hall of Fame!


26 posted on 12/07/2006 6:20:19 AM PST by ABG(anybody but Gore) ("By the time I'm finished with you, you're gonna wish you felt this good again" - Jack Bauer)
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To: goldstategop
It is my hunch that, Israel, will soon be on their own, isolated by the world community, who are prepared to sacrifice the country and the population to the Arabs....much the same as Czechoslovakia, and Hitler
27 posted on 12/07/2006 6:30:21 AM PST by thinking
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To: Van Jenerette

"every major American city..." etc.

Well, the American people decided on 11/07/06 that they wanted to fight the WOT on American soil. So be it.

Metaphorically, if my children don't think my grandchildren are in danger, I'm too old and tired to say, write and care more.

But I will thank God for and continue to support those of us who continue to fight effectively.


28 posted on 12/07/2006 6:33:07 AM PST by Let's Roll ( "Congressmen who ... undermine the military ... should be arrested, exiled or hanged" - A. Lincoln)
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To: Mo1
This report is a worse joke then the 9/11 commission What the hell were they thinking.

Two things. First that the US is always wrong, and second that we don't have the cajones to finish the job.

29 posted on 12/07/2006 6:45:40 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: thinking
Israel is on her own. After Jan. 3, no one is going to stand by her. Which means that no one is going to tell Israel to stop either.
30 posted on 12/07/2006 6:49:28 AM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Let's Roll
Well, the American people decided on 11/07/06 that they wanted to fight the WOT on American soil. So be it.

Well, that's certainly how our enemies, Leftists, and the MSM (but, I repeat myself) are reading it.

We are going to have their wish, I fear.

31 posted on 12/07/2006 7:24:48 AM PST by Gritty (Iran and Syria will stabilize Iraq the way Germany and Russia stabilized Poland in '39 - Ann Coulter)
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To: goldstategop

And just how, pray tell, does Iraq's solution have to do with the rape of the Golan Heights?????


32 posted on 12/07/2006 7:27:17 AM PST by Darnright
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To: CharlesWayneCT
The SAME thing could be happening here, and in fact IS happening here

Anarchy manifests itself in many ways, and is always inimical to any form of personal freedom.

I think the parallel to the Iraqi experience would be a city with street gangs, and an administration owned by, or a part of, the street gangs. Add to that a group of people who are backing the administration and have given them an open checkbook, protection, and unlimited time, and you have Iraq.

I watched that speech Tallibani gave at the IFP the other day, and it was clear that the same level of arrogance and self-interest we saw in the Saddam administration is present in the current one. Maybe it's just an Arab thing, or maybe its related to the fact that, unlike our usual situation, the people have no power to throw out the crooks over there, but it's an attitude that might be partially enlightened by awareness that we're not going to subsidize it.

I understand the difficulties they face, but I don't mind having them looking over their shoulders when they're tempted to take advantage of them, or wimp-out on their obligation to solve them.

33 posted on 12/07/2006 11:06:43 AM PST by ArmstedFragg
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To: Mo1

"What the hell were they thinking"

They were thinking? sarc/


34 posted on 12/07/2006 11:15:03 AM PST by kalee (No burka for me EVER!)
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To: goldstategop

Trash bin?

I say sh!tcan this report.


35 posted on 12/07/2006 11:15:30 AM PST by You Dirty Rats
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To: ArmstedFragg
I like your interpretation of these events. At least it makes me feel better about the whole thing.

Carolyn

36 posted on 12/07/2006 11:21:01 AM PST by CDHart ("It's too late to work within the system and too early to shoot the b@#$%^&s."--Claire Wolfe)
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To: goldstategop
Read it. Venerate it. Obey it.


37 posted on 12/07/2006 12:26:54 PM PST by Silly (Still being... Silly)
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To: TADSLOS

Or, as a colleague of mine once summed up consulting, you go and do analysis until the funding runs out, then you type it up and turn it in.

The gravest misconception taught to college students is the idea that anybody ever does anything other than by the seat of their pants.


38 posted on 12/07/2006 12:36:56 PM PST by ichabod1 (After the attacks of 9/11, profiling Muslims is more like profiling the Klan.)
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To: Osage Orange
Excellent point.

Years ago, watched some democracy summit led by Biden on the tube. Almost all of the big Arab players were there (it was held in Saudi Arabia) & there was some kind of electronic voting deal set up to poll the audience. Palestine was the big sticking point cited by the audience. As long as there is any hope that the current Arab governments are gonna attack the Joooz & kick them off of the "Arab" lands they're sitting on, democracy doesn't matter. Years of indoctrination & that old humiliation thing has worked.

39 posted on 12/07/2006 1:38:37 PM PST by GoLightly
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To: You Dirty Rats
I say sh!tcan this report.

Where do you think it came from?

40 posted on 12/08/2006 9:06:23 AM PST by NonValueAdded (Prayers for our patriot brother, 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub. Brian, we're all pulling for you!)
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To: goldstategop

Bump to read later.


41 posted on 12/08/2006 7:36:48 PM PST by SuziQ
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