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To: ZeitgeistSurfer

And the response from the Imam of Hagia Sophia, which has been a mosque since FOURTEEN FIFTY THREE --- "We'll give you Hagia Sophia, when you give us the Alhambra and the pagans the Pantheon." If Christians have a claim over Hagia Sophia, then the entire territory of the United States should be restored to the Indians, as the conquest of the United States happened hundreds of years later.


2 posted on 12/07/2006 10:32:06 AM PST by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Alter Kaker

Hagia Sophia is a museum today, and doesn't have an Imam.


3 posted on 12/07/2006 10:33:35 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Alter Kaker

The point you make is valid, and in fact the writer doesn't dispute it. His point is that for the muslims, history is a one-way ratchet. They actually believe that the Alhambra should be returned. And that they should keep Hagia Sophia and Jerusalem.

For us, there is give and take. Al Aqsa was not taken from them, and they are permitted to build mosques in every country in the west unmolested, while the Saudi church must hide in the shadows.


7 posted on 12/07/2006 10:38:11 AM PST by marron
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To: Alter Kaker
"...If Christians have a claim over Hagia Sophia, then the entire territory of the United States should be restored to the Indians, as the conquest of the United States happened hundreds of years later..."

From your comment I can only surmise that you, sir, are high on drugs .

The United States was once a vast wilderness of forest, mountain and meadow. The indians here did little or nothing to develop it, and in fact their nomadic existence was oftentimes a mandatory act of survival due to their utter, irresponsible depletion of resources in a given area.

The Hagia Sophia is a beautiful work of art devoted to the glory of a Christian God. It took a lot of time, effort, and willpower to create. To compare the two is apples and oranges.

And I know you're not high on drugs, it's way too early for that. I apologize.

12 posted on 12/07/2006 10:57:34 AM PST by -=SoylentSquirrel=- (I'm boycotting Best Buy, so yay for me.)
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To: Alter Kaker
And the response from the Imam of Hagia Sophia

The Hagia Sophia has no imam. It does have a curator.

which has been a mosque since FOURTEEN FIFTY THREE

It is not a mosque.

It was a church from 325-1453.

It was a mosque from 1453-1935.

It is now a museum.

It was a church more than twice as long as it was a mosque.

We'll give you Hagia Sophia, when you give us the Alhambra

The Alhambra was a palace, not a mosque.

i'm sure there was a portion of the Alhambra set aside for the royal household's personal prayer, the Alhambra was not even an important mosque, let alone one of the two most important mosques in the world.

and the pagans the Pantheon

The Pantheon belonged to the Emperor of Rome. It was his property to dispose of as he wished, and he decided to convert it into a church.

The hagia Sophia was not converted by its rightful owner.

A silly argument.

The ownership of the hagia Sophia was an established matter of law recognized internationally.

The Greeks were not squatting on property to which they had made no legal claim.

26 posted on 12/07/2006 11:39:21 AM PST by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: Alter Kaker

I was under the impression that it was a Christian Church for 1000 years before it was forcefully converted to a mosque.


36 posted on 12/07/2006 12:30:38 PM PST by coon2000
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To: Alter Kaker

"If Christians have a claim over Hagia Sophia, then the entire territory of the United States should be restored to the Indians, as the conquest of the United States happened hundreds of years later."

As if the creation of a modern nation with railroads, highways, skyscrapers, modern technology and the highest standard of living from a wilderness once roamed by people stuck in the iron-age with no written language or even the wheel can compare to the wholesale theft of one of the greatest cities of the classical age can be equated.

Or simply put: We created a nation from nothing. The savages in Europe occupied a nation they could never create if they had 10,000 years.


42 posted on 12/07/2006 3:50:41 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: Alter Kaker

"If Christians have a claim over Hagia Sophia, then the entire territory of the United States should be restored to the Indians, as the conquest of the United States happened hundreds of years later."

As if the creation of a modern nation with railroads, highways, skyscrapers, modern technology and the highest standard of living from a wilderness once roamed by people stuck in the iron-age with no written language or even the wheel can compare to the wholesale theft of one of the greatest cities of the classical age can be equated.

Or simply put: We created a nation from nothing. The savages in Europe occupied a nation they could never create if they had 10,000 years.


43 posted on 12/07/2006 3:50:44 PM PST by ffusco (Maecilius Fuscus,Governor of Longovicium , Manchester, England. 238-244 AD)
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To: Alter Kaker
BALONEY.

The Muslims stole Spain and the Balkans and Sicily and Southern Italy from the Christians by force and they did the same thing in north Africa and the Holy Land, as well as Anatolia.

With very few exceptions, Islam has been and continues to be spread by the sword.

I don't care how many damn years the vile Turk has defamed Hagia Sophia with his polluting presence, he should be kicked out.

They want to resurrect the Caliphate, I want to resurrect Constantine's Rome - with the Muslims locked back up in the deserts of Arabia which spawned them and where they belong.
59 posted on 12/15/2006 10:33:15 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: Alter Kaker
If Christians have a claim over Hagia Sophia, then the entire territory of the United States should be restored to the Indians, as the conquest of the United States happened hundreds of years later.

Exactly. Conquest is conquest. We own Texas. Israel owns the Golan. The Muslims own the Hagia Sofia. Unless the author is willing to draw up armies to invade Turkey, he should stop whining like some left-wing sociologist.

69 posted on 12/18/2006 7:29:20 AM PST by montag813
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