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Allstate to stop insuring new N.J. homeowners
msnbc ^ | 12-7-06

Posted on 12/08/2006 6:17:12 AM PST by Hydroshock

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To: dawn53
May be a simplistic solution, but I'm in Florida and have thought for a long time, if they want to get out of the homeowner's market fine. But keep them from writing any other type of insurance in the state as well, like auto, etc.

Should someone who sky dives every day, pay the same rate for health insurance as someone who doesn't? I do not think so, those with high risk hobbies should assume the cost of the increased risk.

Why should my rates go up because of someone else's lifestyle choices?

51 posted on 12/08/2006 7:05:12 AM PST by Mark was here (How can they be called "Homeless" if their home is a field?.)
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To: twigs

Allstate has paid on claims to me quickly and fairly for 25 or so years...on both Auto and Homeowner claims.

I dont know how I could be better served. I cant imagine how they can be worthless.


52 posted on 12/08/2006 7:05:15 AM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: alice_in_bubbaland

Yeah. Our rates keep going up too. I would rather just take precautions and save the money but I can't.


53 posted on 12/08/2006 7:06:31 AM PST by CindyDawg
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To: CharlesWayneCT
My car insurance company pays out money if they have a good year, I've received checks from them in the past.

State Farm? What you described is a mutual insurance company which is owned by the policy holders. Many of the mutual companies have "demutualized" and become publicly traded companies in the past few years.

54 posted on 12/08/2006 7:06:46 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Baker's Iraq Surrender Group - warming up the last helicopter out of Baghdad.)
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To: Turbo Pig
They have the right to choose what business they want to offer, and a responsibility to thier share holders, in order to make a profit.

Very true. Companies are in business to make money.

When we lived on the Easter Shore of Virginia we had to buy special flood insurance from the government because no policy covered hurricane flooding.

55 posted on 12/08/2006 7:06:54 AM PST by Dustbunny (The BIBLE - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth)
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To: laotzu
If insurors are such "slimeballs", why aren't you self-insuring?

Psssst, the only people who can self-insure are those who don't really need the insurance in the first place. I would love to dump my auto insurance and self-insure. The only thing stopping me is couple hundred grand in liquid assets that I could use to post the requisite bonds to legally do so.

56 posted on 12/08/2006 7:10:02 AM PST by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: Howard Jarvis Admirer
That's why all Mexican houses are built with brick or cinderblock - no fire insurance. The article was in the San Diego Reader a few years back.

I don't think that's accurate. Large parts of Mexico were deforested by the Spanish and never reforested. Wood is not easily available. Also, stone homes are much cooler in that hot climate where most people don't have AC.

57 posted on 12/08/2006 7:11:34 AM PST by jalisco555 ("Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us and pigs treat us as equals" Winston Churchill)
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To: Hydroshock
Allstate has high rates, they have to pay their stock holders.

We used to have our vehicle insurance with them. Then we received an ad from NRA (we have been members for 31 years) about AIG insurance through NRA. We save $600. per year.

58 posted on 12/08/2006 7:12:08 AM PST by Dustbunny (The BIBLE - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth)
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To: laotzu
If insurors are such "slimeballs", why aren't you self-insuring?

While I don't agree with the slimeball characterization the reality is that we have no choice but to get insurance. No bank will write a mortgage to people who don't have homeowner's insurance and most states (I think) require drivers to be insured as well.

59 posted on 12/08/2006 7:13:46 AM PST by jalisco555 ("Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us and pigs treat us as equals" Winston Churchill)
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To: dawn53
May be a simplistic solution, but I'm in Florida and have thought for a long time, if they want to get out of the homeowner's market fine. But keep them from writing any other type of insurance in the state as well, like auto, etc.

Use government force to subvert the natural working of the free market? Not a very conservative outlook...

60 posted on 12/08/2006 7:14:46 AM PST by NittanyLion
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To: A Strict Constructionist
I suggest you look at their profits.

They evaluate the potential for profit and loss on each single transaction. They don't use some customers to subsidize others, or some business units to subsidize others. If they did, competitors would offer better prices to the other customers. (Not always: I worked in a division of a company that made about billion dollars profit in the 1980's, another division lost about the same amount. Sigh.)

Apparently they have decided that writing homeowners policies in NJ entails much more cost and risk than opportunity. It would have to be a really large downside for them to pull out, because once you leave a market it's very difficult to reenter and I am sure the management of All-but-several-States is aware of the negative publicity withdrawing from any market will generate.

61 posted on 12/08/2006 7:15:19 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The hallmark of a crackpot conspiracy theory is that it expands to include countervailing evidence.)
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To: Hydroshock

State Farm would not insure homes in Mississippi Pre-Katrina. Too many looking for arson payouts, my agent told me.


62 posted on 12/08/2006 7:18:39 AM PST by Sybeck1 (Southaven Mississippi Freeper)
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To: dawn53
May be a simplistic solution, but I'm in Florida and have thought for a long time, if they want to get out of the homeowner's market fine. But keep them from writing any other type of insurance in the state as well, like auto, etc.

More government regulation of the so-called "free" market, ya, that's the ticket! Just don't be upset when your auto insurance premium triples to cover home insurance losses. That pesky Law of Unintended Consequences in action.

Insurance companies cherry pick.

Of course they do! Would you expect anything different? Tell me, when you invest in stocks, don't you "cherry pick" the stocks that represent the least risk and greatest potential reward? Perhaps that shouldn't be allowed. The government should require that equally distribute their investments among ALL stocks, or not be allowed to invest at all. Silly? Isn't that what you are advocating for the insurance industry?
63 posted on 12/08/2006 7:23:02 AM PST by armydoc
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To: Melas
the only people who can self-insure are those who don't really need the insurance in the first place...The only thing stopping me is couple hundred grand in liquid assets

All risks need to be managed. Its called being responsible.

Those with greater assests have more risk to manage. They, especially, need insurance.

64 posted on 12/08/2006 7:23:55 AM PST by laotzu
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To: Vaquero

You're lucky. My husband has had them for years and never had any claims. Then we had some house damage several years ago and they refused to even come out and look at it. We talked to a construction friend who said that insurance had fixed every such problem he had ever worked on. And we had a second problem soon after and got the same treatment. We had a car accident last year and wasn't sure how to proceed. But the time they returned our phone call, the car had been prepared. There's more stories. We've paid these folks for years. Last month, I had mislaid the bill and they didn't get their check on time. We got a phone a few days later wanting us to charge it. We have nothing but contempt for these people because that's what they've shown to us, but we can't for the life of us figure out why. I have State Farm Auto and had it on my house before I got married. My experiences with them are the total opposite of ours with Allstate. We also tried to insure some personal things when my daughter studied in Europe and they made the process almost impossible. In the end, we didn't do it. We can't say enough bad things about them. I'm glad that someone has had better experience with them.


65 posted on 12/08/2006 7:24:17 AM PST by twigs
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To: laotzu

It's not that simple kimosabe. If only it were up to me to manage my own risks. It's not. State legislatures long ago took that liberty away. It's no longer your decision anymore. You will not risk X, because the legislature said you can't. Instead you will insure X because the legislature said you have to.

That's the only reason I support regulating the insurance industry. You can't have it both ways. You can't have compulsorary insurance and deregulation. That's not a free market when the state makes me by the product.


66 posted on 12/08/2006 7:27:26 AM PST by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: laotzu

It's not that simple kimosabe. If only it were up to me to manage my own risks. It's not. State legislatures long ago took that liberty away. It's no longer your decision anymore. You will not risk X, because the legislature said you can't. Instead you will insure X because the legislature said you have to.

That's the only reason I support regulating the insurance industry. You can't have it both ways. You can't have compulsorary insurance and deregulation. That's not a free market when the state makes me by the product.


67 posted on 12/08/2006 7:27:36 AM PST by Melas (Offending stupid people since 1963)
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To: jjw

I've had Allstate ins. since we moved to Fl. 9 years ago. I was lucky to get rid of our auto policies with them & go with a much cheaper auto carrier. I don't dare try to find a cheaper homeowners policy as I don't think any exist. Even with no claims & our area does not get hit by hurricanes (knock on wood) our policy has increased 100%. They should allow all Fl insurance companies to include all policies in the country instead of just using Fl as an independent state with the premiums & losses being determined by what happens in Fl.


68 posted on 12/08/2006 7:29:19 AM PST by jrcats (Fed up & looking for answers.)
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To: Hydroshock

Delaware and Conn are also included in this.


69 posted on 12/08/2006 7:32:24 AM PST by Gabz (If we weren't crazy, we'd just all go insane.)
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To: laotzu

This guy (zulu) hates WalMart too. Pretty anti-capitalism if you ask me. I think he likes to stir things up.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1742735/posts?page=21#21

Allstate works great here in Ohio. Not many Lake Erie hurricanes I guess.


70 posted on 12/08/2006 7:32:28 AM PST by mmichaels1970
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Auto insurance (which I know is heavily restricted) but also home insurance? Are you sure?


71 posted on 12/08/2006 7:33:52 AM PST by HostileTerritory
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To: Gabz

Lovely. /S


72 posted on 12/08/2006 7:34:05 AM PST by Hydroshock ( (Proverbs 22:7). The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.)
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To: CindyDawg
We (in other states) need to help them fight this

Excuse me? Last time I checked this nation still claims capitalism as its form of economy. Why should I help 'fight this'? Allstate as a private insurer has a right to choose who it does business with.

73 posted on 12/08/2006 7:36:04 AM PST by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: twigs

As soon as we can sell here in Florida I'll be doing a happy dance when I get rid of our Allstate homeowners policy.


74 posted on 12/08/2006 7:36:51 AM PST by jrcats (Fed up & looking for answers.)
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To: jalisco555
..we have no choice but to get insurance. No bank will write a mortgage to people who don't have homeowner's insurance and most states (I think) require drivers to be insured as well.

Oh...yes; you do indeed have a choice.

You don't have to get someone else to pay for your house. Thank goodness there are banks willing to do so, but; that is their, and your choice.

As for auto insurance; the state requires that you provide evidence of financial liability/responsibility. There are several ways in which you can satisfy this necessary requirement that do not involve any insurance company.

Whether or not you pass your risk off onto an insurance company is, again, your choice.

75 posted on 12/08/2006 7:37:55 AM PST by laotzu
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To: ZULU

what's wrong with the oil companies?


76 posted on 12/08/2006 7:39:02 AM PST by ARA
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To: Hydroshock

Allstate's the same company that fired a guy for writing (on his own time) an article critical of the homo agenda.


77 posted on 12/08/2006 7:41:50 AM PST by Sloth (The GOP is to DemonRats in politics as Michael Jackson is to Jeffrey Dahmer in babysitting.)
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To: Melas
Instead you will insure X because the legislature said you have to.

No legislature mandates that you insure anything. There is no "compulsorary insurance".

78 posted on 12/08/2006 7:42:50 AM PST by laotzu
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To: twigs
We can't say enough bad things about them.

I can't tell. Are you talking about Allstate or State Farm? (Am curious because I have State Farm.)

79 posted on 12/08/2006 7:43:10 AM PST by scan59 (No matter where you go, there you are.)
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To: dogbyte12

IMO, this is caused by the Global Warming hysteria brought on by the alarmist MSM. I just can't believe All State swallowed the hype.


80 posted on 12/08/2006 7:43:16 AM PST by sportutegrl (This thread is useless without pix.)
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To: television is just wrong
Our condo associations insurer here in CA told us that our earthquake rates were to rise near 200% to "make up for those losses" [Katrina]. I've been arguing for years that the whole thing is a waste because if it's small, we can cover it, and if it's big they'll go broke anyway...
81 posted on 12/08/2006 7:45:06 AM PST by Axenolith (Got Au? Ag?)
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To: Hydroshock; Heatseeker; confederacy of dunces; Pyro7480; Dustbunny; Godebert; BykrBayb; ...

DelMarVa Ping (Delaware is included in this AllState policy)

It is becoming more and more difficult to get homeowners insurance on DelMarVa as we learned earlier this year when our policywith NorthernNeck was not being renewed because we live within 100 miles of the coast or other large body of water. We are now insured by Lloyd's of London.......


82 posted on 12/08/2006 7:45:07 AM PST by Gabz (If we weren't crazy, we'd just all go insane.)
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To: ARA

The oil companies?

Nothing is wrong with the oil companies.

They get paid money for pumping out oil from the ground, help subsidize Islamofascist states like Saudi Arabia, drain American money overseas, get an oil depletion allowance, manipulate the international markets, ship crude and refined material from one country to another to confuse nations and consumers, collaborate with an international cartel dedicated to screwing America, but otherwise they are fine and dandy.

I can't move my car or heat my house without them - they know it and love it and want to keep it that way.

Oil companies are great!!!!


83 posted on 12/08/2006 7:45:21 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: scan59

Love State Farm. Loathe Allstate. Sorry for the poor English. Guess what I want to teach?


84 posted on 12/08/2006 7:46:48 AM PST by twigs
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To: HostileTerritory
Auto insurance (which I know is heavily restricted) but also home insurance?

Every word, comma, font size, font color, coverage provided, exclusion, form number, page number, definition, and rate charged on a homeowners insurance policy is dictated by the government.

85 posted on 12/08/2006 7:48:08 AM PST by laotzu
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To: laotzu

"The overwhelming majority of those in the insurance industry are honorable, and honest people. "

Excuse me while I recover from laughing.

Insurance comapnies are gamblers who want to bet that the sun is going to come up tomorrow, and get paid for it.

Thanks to insurance companies we have mandatory seat belt laws and a host of regulations and restrictions that never existed a few years ago - but their brothers in conspiracy -the trial court attorneys with their frivolous lawsuits contribute to that too.


86 posted on 12/08/2006 7:48:48 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: DB

Hey, I said that Allstate has everyright in the world not to sell homeowners insurance in New Jersey if they don't want to - or any other state either.

And New Jersey should tell Allstate that if they are unwilling to insure homeowners in New Jersey, they should take ALL their business elsewhere.

Insurance companies are parasitres run by a bunch of shysters who compete with their fellow shysters - the trial court attorneys in screwing Americans.


87 posted on 12/08/2006 7:52:18 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

There is nothing wrong with making a profit.

There is also nothing wrong with a state telling an insurance company that if it wants to limit its share of the market, it should take its business elsewhere.

Insurance companies are in a position to really screw the average policy holder at every turn and they take every opportunity to do so.

If they had their way, they would require car owners insurance on every vehicle and have the state mandate that all cars be kept off the roads.


88 posted on 12/08/2006 7:56:35 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: jalisco555

You are right, I do remember seeing a number of houses built of cardboard with mud floors. But the Reader article was on why insurance companies won't insure in Mexico. Mexico is very corrupt. Therefore, housing is preferably built of brick and stuuco because of the lack of fire insurance per the Reader.


89 posted on 12/08/2006 7:57:18 AM PST by Howard Jarvis Admirer (Howard Jarvis, the foe of the tax collector and friend of the California homeowner)
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To: ZULU
There is also nothing wrong with a state telling an insurance company that if it wants to limit its share of the market, it should take its business elsewhere.

I suppose that's true, unless you are a conservative and are in favor of free markets. Then there's something horribly wrong with it.

To each his own.

90 posted on 12/08/2006 7:58:26 AM PST by NittanyLion
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To: The South Texan
"Pay premiums up the wazzo for years and never file a claim."

And do you feel ripped off by your life insurance company as well?
91 posted on 12/08/2006 8:01:56 AM PST by riverdawg
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To: ZULU
Insurance comapnies are gamblers who want to bet..

No. Not at all.

Your dislike for them is all too obvious.

Although insurance is fairly easy to explain, it cannot be heard through an ear of hatred and willfull ignorance.

You clearly want to despise them. I will not try to dissuade you from that perverted embrace.

92 posted on 12/08/2006 8:04:03 AM PST by laotzu
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To: laotzu

The overwhelming majority of those in the insurance industry are honorable, and honest people.

Insurance is a scam.


93 posted on 12/08/2006 8:06:47 AM PST by cp124 (Republican=Conservative Lite)
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To: HostileTerritory
I don't know anything about the details of the New Jersey market. I'm sure that All State would gladly sell any policy that they think they'll make money on.

In the PRM, anyone writing insurance had to offer auto insurance on terms dictated by state regulators. All State said adios around 1990, because they were losing too much money on auto insurance and they've never come back. I remember video of two All State execs marching up the Statehouse steps to surrender the company's insurance license. (The commissioner of Insurance was still making empty threats...)

Every state regulates insurance, at a minimum to assure the financial integrity of insurers. It's unlikely that anyone is "buying in" to the New Jersey homeowners market by taking a loss to drive out competitors, so I assume that All State decided, for whatever reason, that they could not make money there. Occam makes me suspect regulators.

94 posted on 12/08/2006 8:07:36 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The hallmark of a crackpot conspiracy theory is that it expands to include countervailing evidence.)
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To: Hydroshock

The insurance companies are plotting to have the Feds take over wind damage the same way they took over flood insurance.


95 posted on 12/08/2006 8:18:57 AM PST by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: cp124
Insurance is a scam

Then, why do you insure? Insurance is a choice, not a requirement.

96 posted on 12/08/2006 8:23:27 AM PST by laotzu
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To: driftdiver

.....The insurance companies are dropping anyone who might actually make a claim......

No, that is not at issue.

The issue painfully learned down south is that insurance for homeowners in cosatal areas subject to hurricanes is simply no longer feasible.

To adequately cover the risks, premiums must be so high people will not pay them. Property values have inflated to the point that insured values aren't adequate for recovery.

Rather than put up with the hassle of lawsuits about coverage and coverage valuations it is best to abandon the business.


97 posted on 12/08/2006 8:28:19 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. Rozerem commercials give me nightmares)
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To: A Strict Constructionist
Bad business deals in real estate is their weakness.

Insurance companies are among the most highly regulated companies in the US. Most states stringently regulate what kind of investments insurance companies can make to make more money off of unspent premium. Real Estate, compared to the stock market itself, is among the safest and most lucrative investment options, but like you said, if a particular real estate market goes soft, so does the insurance companies bank account.

98 posted on 12/08/2006 8:32:14 AM PST by Tamar1973 (Making every thread a Star Wars thread, one post at a time!!!)
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To: laotzu
Most people carry a homeowners' policy because this is required by their mortgage. The insurance is not there to protect them - its there to protect the lender's interest in the property.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

99 posted on 12/08/2006 8:32:16 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: bmwcyle

Having written many auto estimates over the years,it never ceases to amaze me at how many people attempt to use the insurance companies as their personal bank account.They want you to write and add things that do not pertain to the original damage.It is more pronounced around the Holidays,when money is tight,and they have no intention of repairing the vehicle.Instead,the money is for Christmas.I have no love lost for the ins.companies,as they also will go to extremes to save what they can,but ultimately the consumer pays.I do what I think is the best way,and if the ins.company disagrees,they can take the vehicle elswhere.I do inform the customers the reasons.They are who I work for.My 2 cents


100 posted on 12/08/2006 8:32:53 AM PST by xarmydog
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