"Cole Goes On" -- the debate continues

National Review Online ^ | February 8, 2005 | Jonah Goldberg

[MurryMom]

Anyway, I do think my judgment is superior to his [Juan Cole's] when it comes to the big picture. So, I have an idea: Since he doesn't want to debate anything except his own brilliance, let's make a bet. I predict that Iraq won't have a civil war, that it will have a viable constitution, and that a majority of Iraqis and Americans will, in two years time, agree that the war was worth it. I'll bet $1,000 (which I can hardly spare right now). This way neither of us can hide behind clever word play or CV reading. If there's another reasonable wager Cole wants to offer which would measure our judgment, I'm all ears. Money where your mouth is, doc.

[MurryMom]

Fortunately for Jonah, Juan Cole never took the bet. How can anybody but Jonah be so callous about the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis as to make a thousand dollar bet on the outcome of a war that resulted in over 655,000 dead Iraqis, over 914,000 Iraqis displaced from their homes, over 3000 dead "coalition" soldiers, and over 42,000 American casualties?

[r9etb]

655,000 dead Iraqis?

Source, please.

[Mo1]

Where the heck do you get your #'s from?

[FastCoyote]

"Fortunately for Jonah, Juan Cole never took the bet. How can anybody but Jonah be so callous about the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis as to make a thousand dollar bet on the outcome of a war that resulted in over 655,000 dead Iraqis, over 914,000 Iraqis displaced from their homes, over 3000 dead "coalition" soldiers, and over 42,000 American casualties?"

Fortunately for the rest of us, the 655,000 figure was bad statistics thoroughly refuted. And I think Jonah was brave enough to put money where his mouth is, nothing callous about that.

[The_Victor]

Where the heck do you get your #'s from?

Proctologist + flashlight = 655,000 dead Iraqis

[dforest]

Those numbers came out of that bogus report using a bogus form of gathering those stats.

[small voice in the wilderness]

It's her a**-fax machine. All liberals have one. It's how they manage to spout crap about any subject anytime.

[trisham]

[elhombrelibre]

Had you been to Iraq you'd Iraqis don't share this bizarre over-the-top gloom and doom outlook that the DNC and the MSM have propagated to the American people for partisan reasons. The Iraqis went through hell under Saddam. They're going through tough times with too many deaths every day now, but not because of Jonah. It's because of remnants from the Saddam regime, al Qaeda, and Iranian-supported terrorists who are seeking revenge.

[MurryMom]

Nature magazine. If you have performed a fact-based study showing a lesser number of dead Iraqis maybe we can work with your number. What is your number?

[facedown]

...and over 42,000 American casualties?

And that's only in Detroit.

Oh wait.....

[jim35]

If those numbers came from Nature Magazine, you should reconsider your subscription. MY number is 30,000. I got that from the White House briefing. I know for a fact, though, that a mathematician, who wishes to remain anonymous, puts the number at 125. Really, MM, do you believe that 15,000 Iraqi's per month have been killed since the start of the insurgency? More than the total number of German soldiers killed in WWII? More than the total number of American soldiers killed in WWII, the Korean War, and the Viet-Nam war, combined?

[woofie]

Those friends of yours in Iran seem kinda callous when it comes to the lives of millions of Jews

[jim35]

Also, you might want to take a gander at this...http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/200383.php

[Our man in washington]

I guess Cole would have won the bet, but it depends how you define the terms. The majority of Iraqis thinking the war was worth it? With Kurdish and Shiite support, probably. A civil war in Iraq? Maybe, although it seems to be mostly people blowing up shopping areas so they can get CNN coverage. A functioning Constitution? Too early to say. Majority of Americans thinking the war was worth it? Probably not, so Cole would at least win on that.

[NeoCaveman]

Nobody buys those bullshiite numbers of Irai deaths they are produced by agenda driven groups.

Their agenda, cutting down America.

[CharlesWayneCT]

But they do have a viable constitution, they are NOT in a civil war, and a majority DO think that saddam being gone was worth it.

Remember, they are a democracy. They could vote in a legislature that could pardon Saddam, put him back in power, and kick out the U.S. Troops if they think it wasn't worth it, and they have not done so.

The Iraqi people are not nearly as depressed about the war as we are.

And 655,000 dead Iraqi's? What, do you think they are hiding the bodies with the WMDs somewhere so we don't find them?

On the WORST days, you will read a story that says "in one of the worst days of since the fall of Saddam, 110 people were killed today in a series of terror attacks".

If 100 people were killed every single day since May 1, 2003, we would be talking about maybe 120,000 total deaths. But most days there aren't nearly as many people killed.

[CharlesWayneCT]

BTW, there are about 25 million iraqis, so that number suggests that over 5% of the population of Iraq has died in the past 3 years directly because of the war.

In fact, the TOTAL death rate of ALL causes in Iraq isn't NEAR that amount.

[r9etb]

I'm not offering any numbers, as the topic of the moment is an investigation of your claim. Can you provide a link?

[MurryMom]

The total number of nom Iraq coalition casualties is 46,880 as of today. Link here:


http://icasualties.org/oif/