David Irving: Jews should ask themselves why they are hated

Haaretz ^ | December 23, 2006 | Amiram Barkat

[West Coast Conservative]

Holocaust denier David Irving on Friday said Jews should ask themselves why they have been hated throughout history.

"They [Jews] should ask themselves the question, 'Why have they been so hated for 3000 years that there has been pogrom after pogrom in country after country?', said Irving, speaking at a press conference he convened in England on Friday, a day after he was released from an Austrian prison.

Irving, who was sentenced to three years in prison for denying the Holocaust, was released last week after his appeal was granted.

Asked if he sees himself as anti-Semitic, Irving said, "No, I like to think I am not."

But immediately following his answer, Irving expressed his support for Mel Gibson's comments that "The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world."

Irving also took pride in the success of his books and claimed that he the fortune he made from sales of his biography on World War II German General Erwin Rommel enabled him to walk into a car showroom with a paper bag stuffed with cash to buy a "Nigger brown Rolls-Royce."

Irving's comments aroused great anger within Britain's Jewish community.

Lord Janner, president of the Holocaust Educational Trust, said Irving's release was "unwarranted" and that Irving's "latest comments were totally to be expected and should be totally ignored."

[Capt. Tom]

Ignoring this fellow's obvious issues of bias and anger, what is the answer to that question? Certainly, Jews, more than any other group, have been the target of prejudice and hatred. Why is that? Why should this one group be the subject of so much hostility?

I am sure there are many opinions but here is my take.

1. The Jews project an appearance of a lack of a sense of nationality.
Jewish Americans, Jewish Germans,or Jewish anything are perceived to be American Jews and German Jews etc. Not a part of the society but living within it.

2. Jews are a successful group within the societies they live in, and this brings jealousy and resentment on them. They are disproportunately represented at the top level of our Government and in the liberal media

3. They know that goy societies are not going to give them any extra help,and are in fact prejudiced against them, so they have to make it on their own, and are so motivated to succeed.

4. Jews don't go around trying to convert people to Judaism so their numbers can only grow by birthing. So they will always be a minority and suffer the slings and arrows of the majority.

5. Most of the people the Jews come in contact with are Christians and Muslims which IMHO are heretical outgrowths of Judaism, which would tend to make the Christians and Moslems look down on the Jews who missed the message of Christ and Mohammed.

6. They are big supporters of socialism which tends to turn conservatives against them.

Fire away- tom

[popdonnelly]

People like David Irving are dangerous. We had the same fake scholarship in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and it led to the concentration camps. These people should not be taken likely. They're dangerous to Israel and the U.S.

[popdonnelly]

likely = lightly

[incredulous joe]

They are among "God's chosen" and technically I believe Christians are within this, as well. But the fact of the matter is that we all have the option of choosing to be followers of God, based on whether we follow his laws or not.

As a Catholic, nothing seems to rankle folks of a different denominational persuasion than the part of our creed which states "one Holy Catholic and Apostolic church".

I'd like to think that if I were a member of a different church that I wouldn't get so bent out of shape about how others refer to themselves; "the Chosen". "People of God", "the elect", "the select". These are people who believe in God and proclaim the titles as a testament to their faith. The more challenging part is living up to those titles no matter what the faith or denomination.

[Torie]

1. The Jews project an appearance of a lack of a sense of nationality. Jewish Americans, Jewish Germans,or Jewish anything are perceived to be American Jews and German Jews etc. Not a part of the society but living within it.

That one is way, way out of date. These days, American Jews are as American as apple pie, and identify themselves as American, first and foremost, and are viewed that way. At least that is my perception.

Jew hatred is at a very low ebb on the fruited plain these days. America just keeps getting better, and better. JMO.

[Torie]

I heard an Anglican priest in the Church of the Knights Templar (or some such name, that got some notoriety in the DeVinci Code tale) located in the law quadrangle of London across from the Royal Courts, refer to the Anglican Church as her majesty's Catholic Church, the reformed Catholic Church. That give me a bit of a start. :)

[elhombrelibre]

I'm sure they're well compensated for their views, but I don't doubt the sincerity of their contempt and disdain for Jews and Israel.

[SALChamps03]

I seem to remember that the Bible called them the chosen people.

[abclily]

If I remember correctly, there is a passage in the Old Testament that says, "These are my chosen people, and I am the Lord."

[Anti-Bubba182]

Irving is not trustworthy on any point of history. He is simply so dishonest that he is useless as a historian and it is not only about the holocaust.

Lying About Hitler: History, Holocaust, and the David Irving Trial

"..While many people agree that Irving may have a bee in his bonnet about the Holocaust, they say his other work is valuable. Evans helpfully deflates that view with a chapter on Irving's book on the Destruction of Dresden. Whereas most scholars suggest that at most 40-50,000 people died in the firebombing of the city, Irving has suggested that up to a quarter of a million may have died. How did he do this? Well, without any real evidence he took one estimate of 40,000 and argued that the assessor had just dropped a "1" at the beginning in response to Soviet pressure. His source for a total of 200-250,000 amount to little more than fifth-hand hearsay of a document that had been excerpted, transcribed, transcribed again and copied, and which was a fraud in the first place. Evans points out that Irving tried to exaggerate the number of people in Dresden by cited 1.25 million ration cards, except that the British had previously dropped thousands of ration cards in order to muck up the Nazi bureaucracy. And, oh yes, Evans points out that Irving ignores or minimizes contemporary German documents that show that the death total was about the tenth of his estimate. All in all, this is a very useful book, one that should help demolish the reputation of a most overrated and sinister figure. .."

[mcashman]

Thomas Sowell proposes in "Race and Culture" that Jews are hated because Jews tend culturally toward being "middlemen" - that is, those who connect willing buyers with willing sellers and thus make a profit.

To many people, this seems like an immoral way to make a profit, in fact, it looks like exploitation, because such people cannot see how the middleman role adds value to the transaction.

It is easy to blame the middleman for one's own lack of success if you believe the middleman just depletes the value of transactions for their own gains.

This is, of course, not the case. Middlemen add significant value by creating markets. But Sowell shows in a number of examples how the theme of hatred for middleman cultures surfaces again and again, not just when they are Jews.

In addition, Sowell points out that middleman cultures tend to remain unassimilated even when they live in various countries. This is because their internal cultural connections are critical to success in making markets.

It seems a sensible observation, and Sowell, as always, backs it up with lots of references...

[etlib]

The fact that they call themselves "The Chosen People" doesn't help.

The fact that they are the chosen people is the more significant reason, as has been expounded upon by other posters.

[secretagent]

It's completely stupid that this guy should have been imprisoned for three years for freedom of speech:

I agree. For one thing it casts the deniers as courageous dissidents.

If instead he'd been allowed to wonder around expressing his views, someone may have shot him in the head by now, putting him out of his deranged misery and doing society a huge favor.

Freedom of speech means the right to say things others find objectionable. Shooting an A-hole just makes him a martyr, and sets a bad precedent.

Nazis and Commies and Islamofascists do that. We have a higher standard.

[buck61]

And, Judis selling his master for 30 pieces of silver?????

[Misterioso]

So, that means it is "G-d's Will" or in the Middle East it's "Allah's Will" that the Jews are persecuted. That makes sense.

[Brad’s Gramma]

The fact that they call themselves "The Chosen People" doesn't help.

Take it up with God. I DO believe He coined that phrase...

[Soothesayer]

I am an Arab, a former Muslim (now Christian), and I agree with all of that ;)

[Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek]

"People like David Irving are dangerous. We had the same fake scholarship in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and it led to the concentration camps."

The problem is quite a bit larger than "people like David Irving". See, e.g.,

http://www.amazon.com/Darwin-Hitler-Evolutionary-Eugenics-Germany/dp/140397201X
From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics, and Racism in Germany by Richard Weikart

http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2006/006/15.35.html
Darwin's Graveyards - Yes, he really was a Social Darwinist.
by Edward T. Oakes

[Billthedrill]

You never hear the people making it consider the point, but "He hates you. You ought to consider why this is so," isn't even an argument, it's a vague demand that the listener feel guilt over something unstated.

Oderint Dum Metuant - "Let them hate, so that they fear," a sentiment of Lucius Accius quoted both by Cicero and by Caligula. It is one's only recourse when the term "dialogue" is twisted to mean an incessant list of accusation on the one side and an unending defense on the other. It's a fool's game and a fool's rules.

[Soothesayer]

**People like David Irving are dangerous. We had the same fake scholarship in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and it led to the concentration camps. These people should not be taken likely. They're dangerous to Israel and the U.S.**


...and to all of humanity!