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Watt a mess! Power lines hit homeowner with financial jolt(Stupidity alert)
Boston Herald ^ | Thursday, December 28, 2006 | Jay Fitzgerald

Posted on 12/28/2006 5:17:17 AM PST by GQuagmire

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To: Old Professer

An ignition coil is an autotransformer, the primary and secondary windings are indeed tied together

this is so IN SOME INSTANCES ONLY.

otherwise, you have just invalidated many many repairs that were successfully and properly diagnosed with ohmeters.

I wasn't trying to demonstrate stellar expertise in my post.....only wanted to answer the question with some rudiments. YOU should look into the automotive world to discover which coils are inductive discharge and which are capacitive discharge.....


101 posted on 12/28/2006 7:54:01 AM PST by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: Between the Lines
surveys show that National Grid actually built one transmission tower off of its easement years ago.

If the power company has made the land unusable by misplacing the transmission lines then the power company is responsible for reimbursing the owners for the use of their property. Also the power company would be responsible for any persons injured by this action.

Depends. If National Grid put that thing up a goodly number of years ago (it's about ten in my state) and occupied it without protest from the underlying owner, then they have effectively a sort of "squatters" easement on the property. It's sort of like letting everyone use the back thirty feet of your property to get in and out of their place, even though they have other means to do so. Eventually, they acquire a common law "right" in your land, if they do so without express permission.

I spent twenty five years as a title examiner, and we expressly excluded such things from coverage, since they could not be determined from the legal record on file with the county.

102 posted on 12/28/2006 7:55:36 AM PST by hunter112
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To: OCCASparky

I think there's a difference between "safe approach distance" and "no annoying effects on electrical appliances" distance.


103 posted on 12/28/2006 7:56:14 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The artist doesn't have to have all the answers; he must, however, ask the right questions honestly.)
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To: YouPosting2Me
This story has POTENTIAL!

Boo, hiss.

104 posted on 12/28/2006 7:57:18 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: GQuagmire
“You would think common sense would have prevailed”

Common sense is an oxymoron. What passes for good sense is far from common anymore.

105 posted on 12/28/2006 7:59:17 AM PST by Keith in Iowa (Liberals: First to demand tolerance, last to practice it when conservatives disagree with them.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Then again, looking at the pic of that guy, you can see where the pancake makeup is covering up the tumors...[/sarc]


106 posted on 12/28/2006 7:59:55 AM PST by OCCASparky (Steely-Eyed Killer of the Deep)
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To: antiRepublicrat
Boo, hiss.

Regardless, it seems like a owning this home has been a NEGATIVE experience. It does seem unfair that the utility company is CHARGING him although that doesn't give him the right to CIRCUIT-Vent the law (ohm's law that is...)

107 posted on 12/28/2006 8:03:56 AM PST by YouPosting2Me
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To: JimRed
Can a tech savvy FReeper explain how power "leaks" from transmission lines? I should think they'd be well insulated.

How does your electric toothbrush charge even though there's no metal contact between the toothbrush and the charger stand? 61 & 63 answered well.

108 posted on 12/28/2006 8:04:44 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
The energy comes from the external field. I thought that the principle was that it accelerates naturally ionized gas, the accelerated ions collide with other gas molecules generating more far more than the natural number of thermally ionized molecules. The glow is from the recombination of the electrons and ionized molecules. (The ionization engery is supplied by the external field, remember.) Thermal agitation will overwhelm the relatively small number of ionized molecules, (neutral molecules diffuse rapidly) so that there are always plenty of ions throughout the tube. The density of the gas is adjusted so that the mean free path of the molecules (at the design voltage) is much less than the tube length but long enough to allow collisions to result in more ions, and the recombination time is much much smaller that 1/120 seconds. Effectively the 60 Hertz is much greater than the time constant of the tube. The Point is, it's the E-feild, not the B-field that couples to a florescent lamp.

I'm sorry but I could not understand what you were explaining. Think in terms of energy conversion. You put energy in a box, like squeezing a spring. When the spring is released the energy stored is released, with the florescent bulb the energy is released in the form of visible light.

109 posted on 12/28/2006 8:10:15 AM PST by Mark was here (How can they be called "Homeless" if their home is a field?.)
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To: Keith in Iowa
“You would think common sense would have prevailed”

This was in Massachusetts.

They ran all of the beneficial "senses" out of state immediately after July 18, 1969.

And they never got them back.

110 posted on 12/28/2006 8:10:32 AM PST by Calvin Locke
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To: Issaquahking
Because of them, that was what made my previous post towards you seem vicious. I have no patience for "new and improved" theft.

You see a problem, I see opportunity. Honestly, the magnetic field off these lines is just wasted power, and I think it's good to collect it. The power companies should just lease transformers to those people who are near such lines. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, it should also help the load on the grid.

111 posted on 12/28/2006 8:12:23 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: GQuagmire
Zagami, 30, whose bank is now threatening to call in its loan, blames the fiasco on others, including the town of North Attleboro for issuing him a building permit and National Grid for allegedly constructing one transmission tower years ago too close to his property.

No not really. His construction may have started before the power line transmission. If he had the permits BEFORE the towers were actually put up he has a good case as power companies are known to LIE about their tower placements. I've had it done to me. For example he as well as the county Building Inspector could have been told it was a vertical single pole tower and could have changed to a dual tower arrangement throwing off all Right of Way calculations.

I will say this much when TVA put a 180,000 volt transmission on my property and a new sub-station nearby it caused me a lot of grief. The first thing was my utility upped my service voltage from 115/230 to 128/256 volts and I started having appliances burn up as well as my deep well pump several times. They were running the voltages hot to help pay for the cost of the new substation. IOW a back door rate increase. I made some threats of litigation against the local utility and they placed a 115/230 transformer on my home resolving that issue.

Depending on how good the ground grid is in the area is another determining factor. I've had the bleed off from lightning hits on the tower blow through my lightning arrestors on my fence as well and come in on my house. My home is very well grounded. But IIRC the minimum distance allowed for a dwelling to a Transmission Line is roughly 50 feet.

I'd like to hear the mans side of it before labeling him an idiot as power companies can be bullies when it comes to power lines and out and out liars. He made have been told he met the initial requirements when he began construction. If so the utility company owes him a house and payoff on the loan.

112 posted on 12/28/2006 8:15:47 AM PST by cva66snipe (If it was wrong for Clinton why do some support it for Bush? Party over nation destroys the nation.)
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To: OCCASparky

I should have added my home was built twenty years ago in a rual community. It is not a McMansion, but a simple single story wood frame on a concrete slab. It is not fancy, but it is paid for.


113 posted on 12/28/2006 8:37:20 AM PST by CIB-173RDABN
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To: antiRepublicrat
You see a problem, I see opportunity. Honestly, the magnetic field off these lines is just wasted power, and I think it's good to collect it. The power companies should just lease transformers to those people who are near such lines. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, it should also help the load on the grid.

You see a problem, I see opportunity.

Unless you have a contract with me...it's theft, I created it, you have to negotiate with me to have some of "it".

Honestly, the magnetic field off these lines is just wasted power, and I think it's good to collect it.
Again, it's mine. You need to negotiate, and contract with me, or we'll let the judge settle it if you want to push on the action side.

The power companies should just lease transformers to those people who are near such lines.
It's no where near that simple.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, it should also help the load on the grid
If your Va messes with my KVA generated, it's billable, and no, it doesn't help the system. I think your misunderstanding. Know the difference between KVA and VA? PF and penalty for improper PF? It's like a car, you don't have to be a Mechanical Engineer to drive, but it helps if you want to mess with the heart, and fuel(s) of it.
114 posted on 12/28/2006 8:46:53 AM PST by Issaquahking (Trust can't be bought)
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To: Issaquahking
difference between KVA and VA?

OOps...

try diff between KVA and KW...

There, that's better.
115 posted on 12/28/2006 8:49:56 AM PST by Issaquahking (Trust can't be bought)
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To: GQuagmire
I think from a liability stand point, the Power Grid and the issuing of a building permit will be the driving force behind this guy winning in court
116 posted on 12/28/2006 9:29:42 AM PST by tiger-one (The night has a thousand eyes)
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To: Issaquahking
Unless you have a contract with me...it's theft, I created it, you have to negotiate with me to have some of "it".

I don't have to negotiate with the radio station to make use of its electromagnetic transmissions onto my property.

If your Va messes with my KVA generated, it's billable, and no, it doesn't help the system. I think your misunderstanding.

Then time to help here. Does doing this put any amount of strain on the system, create any amount of loss on the system? Or does it just take advantage of what's already been lost? I understand your position if it creates even the tiniest amount of loss.

117 posted on 12/28/2006 9:35:04 AM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: Mark was here

The external field accelerates the ions. Energy is transferred from the field to the ion, transforming electrical potential to kinetic energy. (The flow of ions cancels the electric field, like a capacitor charging up, so the electrostatic field energy decreases) The ions collide with other molecules, ionizing them and thereby transforming some of their kinetic energy into electrical energy, in the form of the ionization potential. (It takes energy to knock the electrons away from the molecules.) The external electric field thereby greatly increases the number of ionized molecules. Everytime an ion recombines with an electron, voila, electrostatic potential energy is transformed into electromagnetic radiation. Let there be light!

E-field --> {accelerates ions}--> kinetic energy --> {collision/ionization} --> electrostatic energy --> recombination --> electromagnetic radiation (light!)


118 posted on 12/28/2006 9:44:06 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The artist doesn't have to have all the answers; he must, however, ask the right questions honestly.)
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To: GQuagmire

If his house is within 27 feet of a 345 KV line, then he built it on the power company's right of way.


119 posted on 12/28/2006 10:51:09 AM PST by Erasmus (Able was Bob ere Bob saw Elba.)
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To: OSHA; JimRed

The principal means of coupling is through the electric field. Figure a peak potential of maybe 300 KV, and a distance to ground of 30 Meters, and you have around 10 KV/M field strength right there.

The coupling due to magnetic fields is comparatively minor, and would fluctuate as the current being carried by the powerline fluctuated.

As far as biological effects, effects from alternating magnetic fields are more difficult to demonstrate than those from electric fields.

(Note that I am not talking here about electromagnetic radiation; only the separate effects of electric or magnetic fields need be considered in this case.)

I once lived under some 100+KV lines--about 70 feet distant--and the main effect was to make hum in my condenser microphones.


120 posted on 12/28/2006 11:08:00 AM PST by Erasmus (Able was Bob ere Bob saw Elba.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
E-field --> {accelerates ions}--> kinetic energy --> {collision/ionization} --> electrostatic energy --> recombination --> electromagnetic radiation (light!)

Electrons have orbits they are comfy in. The electrons can be forced into bigger orbits with more electrons forced into the mix. When the pressure is released the elecyrons go back to their comfy orbit. When they go back to their comfy orbit, energy is released in the form of visible light.

This is just what I recall from high school 30 years ago. My understanding is simply that the light is simply produced by the lowering of the energy state. I'll have to look it up.

121 posted on 12/28/2006 11:22:05 AM PST by Mark was here (How can they be called "Homeless" if their home is a field?.)
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To: Mark was here
Electrons have orbits they are comfy in.

Not untrue. Electrons in a gas molecule quickly - in nanoseconds - drop down into the ground state, emitting a well defined line spectrum with each transition. Electrons can be excited out of the ground state in a number of ways, collisions that knock electrons free are one.

During recombination, the electron drops through a series of states quickly giving off a characteristic wavelength photon at each step along the way.

122 posted on 12/28/2006 12:27:59 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (The artist doesn't have to have all the answers; he must, however, ask the right questions honestly.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
During recombination, the electron drops through a series of states quickly giving off a characteristic wavelength photon at each step along the way.

Yep, then the photon hits the phosphorus coating producing the glow we can see.

I once read a book by Einstein, what I recall the most was his apologizing for having to use a mathematical equation in his book. He was writing to the average man, and wanted to explain things as clearly as possible. That influence made me choose a decidedly unscientific term such as "comfy", in an earlier response.

Anyway this little discussion of ours started when I was not sure how a DC current could make a florescent bulb glow as you stated in post #86.

123 posted on 12/29/2006 2:35:33 PM PST by Mark was here (How can they be called "Homeless" if their home is a field?.)
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To: GQuagmire
...a new home so close to high-voltage transmission lines that fluorescent bulbs inside the house light up without even being plugged in.

Riiiight, and Martians are living in my basement.

If he get shocks in the house, better check the house wiring, don't blame the power lines outside!!

124 posted on 12/29/2006 2:46:28 PM PST by Cruising Speed
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To: Cruising Speed

this poor guy needs a damn good lawyer.....any takers?


125 posted on 12/29/2006 4:08:25 PM PST by polishpitbull
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To: GQuagmire

You have an auwful lot of time on your hands, beating on Mr Zagami. The large power companies have all the resources to bury their wrongdoing. I would love to see a lawyer that has the guts to contact Mr Zagami to challenege the validity of National Grid's so called plans. Those poles had to be put in via satellite. An inch off for satellite is feet off on the ground. Let's not be so quick to attack this poor guy when he may actually have a good argument against the grid!


126 posted on 12/29/2006 4:25:44 PM PST by polishpitbull
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To: SoftballMominVA

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/us/2006/12/29/kirchner.ma.charged.house.wlne

Video of the story.

It doesn't look that close to the wires...


127 posted on 12/30/2006 12:55:02 AM PST by DB
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