Posted on 12/31/2006 9:33:43 AM PST by kronos77
After the 9/11, a worldwide “War on terror” begun in order to disband and neutralize Islamic terrorist networks across the globe. The main focus of the largest anti-terrorist campaign in history is focused in the Middle East area, as well as in Afghanistan. The Balkan Peninsula is the European area where this campaign has also taken place, with numerous arrests and a continuous effort into riding the fundamentalist out of the area. The question arising though, is how did the extremists gain a foothold in South Eastern Europe in the first place, and what was the reaction of the international community over the previous years.
So, the outbreak of the civil war in Bosnia-Herzegovina in 1992 presented an unparalleled opportunity for the international Mujaheedin to storm Europe, establish safe havens in the area and thus initiate re-conquest of regions they previously ruled. The leader of Bosnia, Alia Izebegovic was eager to obtain as much assistance as possible and didn’t hesitate in providing the necessary framework by which the Islamic ties were forged. In the same year, a variety of Islamic mercenaries flocked into the Balkans in order to support the “Holy cause”, meaning the establishment of the first Islamic state in Europe. The end of the war in 1995 saw quite a few of those mujahedin, acquiring Bosnian citizenship and establishing the first Islamic community in the village of Bocinja Donja.
"Ethnic Bosnian Muslim commander talks about Jihadist determination to kill "enemies of Allah" just before the attack on Pocjelovo. "It is a Jihad... and with even greater spark to kill Allah's enemies because today they are strong and pronounced as they have never been before"
video: http://www.serbianna.com/columns/michaletos/007_files/pocjelovo.rm
(Excerpt) Read more at serbianna.com ...
Well, your behavior then was about on par with what it is now. So if I castigated you a few weeks ago about the disingenuine and disruptive purpose of your participation in this conversation, then yes. The same is true today.
Of course this little sidetrack is only designed to turn attention away from the real issue, viz. the 57,000 confirmed Islamonazis who sided with Hitler, plus all the other Nazi units we know to have had muslims in them. It's all documented history that only a habitually dishonest Islamophile would dispute.
he's only here to agitate and spout rabid Islamophilia
If you claim to have books supporting your beliefs about the past and refuse to specify further, you are being intellectually dishonest. You are already a known flip-flopper.
Of course this little sidetrack is only designed to turn attention away from the real issue, viz. the 57,000 confirmed Islamonazis
You merely saying so is not "confirmation" if you have evidence beyond the mere names of a few books, present it.
plus all the other Nazi units we know to have had muslims in them.
And of course, the 18,000,000 Christian Nazi soldiers who sided with and fought directly for Hitler in the Wehrmacht.
It's all documented history that only a habitually dishonest Islamophile would dispute.
If it's documented, you'll have no reservations about providing that documentation for verification. That you are belligerently unwilling to do so indicates that this documentation does not exist.
I gave you the citation for Scheck here, and for Echenberg even earlier. This is how you found Scheck's article, which is how you brought yourself to believe that when he said that France had 275,000 West African troops, he didn't really mean it. I will ask you again not to disparage my integrity.
And I will ask you to refrain from insulting those brave soldiers who came to the war through a draft and fought the Nazis with honor and ferocity, defending your freedom to insult them.
In short, Zimmy's own citation standards form himself are substantially lower than both the citations I have given and the additional information he demands of me.
I gave you page numbers for Sheck and Echenberg. You've given authors and titles only -- a standard you earlier dismissed.
. Again, if I believed he was honestly interested in investigating the numbers of those sources I'd take the time to oblige him. But I know from experience that he is not
I'm asking for you to defend your claims with facts. If you are unwilling or unable to do that, the rest of are aware of your penchant for ignoring facts that you find uncomfortable, refusing to provide evidence you claim exists, flip-flopping your standards when it suits you, and making baseless attacks on the honesty of other FReepers and, by extension, the forum as a whole.
He actually reminds me of that bizarre breed of Palestinian jihadis who claim that there never was a temple on the temple mount and that the Jews never inhabited the historical Israel. In both cases, their Islamophilia is so pervasive that it clouds their ability to honestly evaluate historical facts - be it Israel, the 57,000 confirmed Nazi muslims, or the rest of the Nazi muslim units who may account for well over 100,000 nazi muslim troops in total.
My take on your naive postings is that you hate Muslims so much that you are willing to insult decorated war veterans rather than praise -- or even acknowledge -- Muslims who fought to defend your freedoms against the Nazis.
Clammy's words in #247 are instructive here:
"Kilani formally allied with Nazi Germany and attacked the British enemies of Nazi Germany. That makes the troops who fought for him Nazi allies as well."
And you attack the Muslim soldiers who were the enemies of Nazi Germany. What does that make you?
If there is evidence for the 57,000 number you claim, provide it. Otherwise, do not compare me to insane history-denying terrorists.
I know it's a shocker, but he's already filing frivolous admin moderator complaints. They latest is a classic - he's demanding that the Admin Moderator force me to "prove" the 57,000 troop number that he refuses to believe!
"Raffael Scheck in his article on African POWs in the Second World War, in the Journal of Modern History, July 2005"
Notice there is no actual title of the article itself, no volume number of the journal, and no page numbers. Also note that he finally produced this source after weeks of evasion and quoting from Marxist reparationist websites like Africultures.com. It's both odd and hypocritical that he now demands I meet citation standards that he himself refuses to abide by.
But of course this is all just a diversion away from the historical fact of 57,000+ Muslim nazi troops. It stems from no genuine desire to verify those numbers or check the pages they appear on (the sources WITH TITLES - something Zimmy does not consider himself obliged to provide - have already been made available). Rather, it's simply an attempt to obfuscate the fact of 57,000+ muslim nazis. If I went back and looked up all the page numbers he'd simply find something else to complain about. Hell, I could scan and PDF the book for him and post a highlighted copy online and he'd still find an excuse not to accept it. All of that leaves me asking why I should even bother wasting my time for him. And the answer is I won't.
No, clammy, I am alerting the Moderators to your continued disrespect for this forum. If you want to make ridiculous claims and then refuse to provide evidence to back them up, be my guest. Don't insult our intelligence by expecting us to accept anything you say as gospel truth. If the numbers are true, show it.
I'll also constructively caution you against going down the frivolous "abuse button" route again, noting that it only results in nothing good for anyone involved, yourself included. The last time you tried it you ended up getting all three of us temporarily suspended for fueding plus getting yourself banned for the better part of the week.
But of course this is all just a diversion away from the historical fact of 57,000+ Muslim nazi troops.
If it's a historical fact, prove it. Provide the page numbers.
the sources WITH TITLES - something Zimmy does not consider himself obliged to provide - have already been made available
And the answer is I won't.
You can claim whatever reason you want for your refusal to provide more accurate citations upon request. But the fact is that you are deliberately obstructing access to the proof you claim exists.
One reason why I never asked them to.
Most sane people here can read the post where I calculated the 57,000 number and conclude that it is an accurate representation of historical fact.
You gave some numbers and made some calculations. If you want people to believe that you did not simply fabricate those numbers, it should be easy for you to cite the pages on the books in which you claim to have found them.
I'll also constructively caution you against going down the frivolous "abuse button" route again, noting that it only results in nothing good for anyone involved, yourself included.
I'll alert the moderators to abuse when it occurs. Your insulting and baseless allegations are not "constructive" for the tone of this forum or this debate. And it reflects poorly on you that you prefer to resort to ad hominem attacks rather than provide the page numbers I had asked for from the books you clearly claim to have read.
The last time you tried it you ended up getting all three of us temporarily suspended for fueding plus getting yourself banned for the better part of the week.
I was out of town and wasn't posting to FR. If you have some evidence that I was banned, please provide it. Otherwise, keep your allegations to yourself.
Furthermore, there is nothing "selectively applied" or "inconsistent" in my request for a more complete citation. You have demonstrated your willingness to play with numbers ("rounding up" to support your argument) and this should cause any clearheaded person to be skeptical about a long post of numbers, especially one that assumes a direct correspondence between "Arabs" and "Muslims."
1. 13th, 21st, and 23rd SS. The muster records are 21,065 for the Handschar, 3,793 for the Kama, and Skanderbeg had 9,000 men. All three were majority muslim units. The 13th being all-muslim except for the officers. The 21st was majority Kosovar and Albanian muslims, plus the German officers and a few non-muslim Albanians. The 23rd was majority muslim with a Catholic Croat minority. In total they had around 30,000 muslim soldiers between them.
2. Deutsche Arabisches Infantry Battalion No. 845 - 6,300 Arab Muslim colonial troops (Ailsby 2004, 54-60)
3. Phalange Africana - 400 member arab nazi militia that assisted in North Africa (Ailsby 2004)
4. 950th Infantry Regiment "Indian" - 1,600 muslims out of 3,000 troops (Calculated from Ailsby, Ch. 5. - 3,000 total Indian troops: 516 Sikh, and the remainder was 2/3rds muslim and 1/3rd Hindu)
5. Légion des Volontaires Français Regiment 638, Battalion 3 - at least 200 African muslims from Algeria (http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=877)
6. Osttürkischer Waffen-Verband der SS - Turkistani and arab unit. Muster shows 8,500 members at strongest.
7. Rashid Ali al-Kilani's forces - Iraqi muslims who fought for the Nazi-allied insurgency of Kilani. Kilani's uprising against the British-backed Iraqi government was formally supported by the Axis and supplied with arms by Germany. The British reported 10,000 in casualties taken on the Iraqi side, meaning at least that many fought for Kilani.
8. Waffengruppe "Krim" - Chechen muslim unit on the Eastern Front - 10,000 members (Historische Veröffentlichungen, Freie Universität Berlin Press 1998, p. 95)
NEW TOTAL: 67,000 Muslim Nazis.
Other known part or all-muslim Nazi units unaccounted for:
- The rest of Rashid Ali al-Kilani's army
- Other muslims in the Légion des Volontaires Français
- Muslim members of the 100,000 Vichy French troops under Boisson in French West Africa (figure from "French Colonialism Unmasked: The Vichy Years in French West Africa" by Ruth Ginio, 2006)
- Muslim Bosnians who fought for the Ustashe Nazi Croat regime
- Muslim members of the Kaukasischen Waffen-Verband der SS - had 5,000 total from the Caucases region, including muslim Azerbaijanis.
Here at Free Republic, we were discussing this 10 years ago.
Here's further proof of just how habitually dishonest this guy is. Zimmy did not make a single post between 02/20/2007 1:00:15 PM and 02/24/2007 8:28:13 PM PST. His account was listed as suspended for the first three days of this for continuing the attacks AFTER all three of us were temporarily suspended for fueding. He only returned yesterday after discovering that the ban had expired.
It's been established that 90% of troop in the 13th were Muslims. It's also been established that the 21st and 23rd were recruited as "Albanian" units and Albanians are not monolithically Muslims. Please provide specific breakdowns for the 21st and 23rd.
5. Légion des Volontaires Français Regiment 638, Battalion 3 - at least 200 African muslims from Algeria (http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=877)
See, this is why I ask for specific citations. You state that there are "at least 200 African muslims" and the source you cite talks about "some 200 colored [volunteers], mainly arabs from Algeria."
So while you're saying that there are at least 200 Muslims, your source is saying that a plurality of approximately 200 "colored" troops were Algerian Arabs. You're playing with numbers again, although you'll insist that you're merely rounding the numbers up. More specific citations for 3, 6, and 7 are needed. A more specific citation for 4 would be appreciated.
I'll look at the Ailsby when I get back next weekend.
HE WAS BUSY CHECKING TO SEE WHICH WAY THE WIND WAS BLOWING, LETS MAKE SURE THERE IS NO REPLAY WITH HER THIGHNESS QUEEN HILLARY ROTTEN HAM
Not really. I logged in and read some posts from the road. Just didn't have time to respond.
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