Skip to comments.Second Thoughts on Gays in the Military
Posted on 01/02/2007 5:00:29 AM PST by shrinkermd
TWO weeks ago, President Bush called for a long-term plan to increase the size of the armed forces. As our leaders consider various options for carrying out Mr. Bushs vision, one issue likely to generate fierce debate is dont ask, dont tell, the policy that bars openly gay service members from the military. Indeed, leaders in the new Congress are planning to re-introduce a bill to repeal the policy next year.
As was the case in 1993 the last time the American people thoroughly debated the question of whether openly gay men and lesbians should serve in the military the issue will give rise to passionate feelings on both sides. The debate must be conducted with sensitivity, but it must also consider the evidence that has emerged over the last 14 years.
When I was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, I supported the current policy because I believed that implementing a change in the rules at that time would have been too burdensome for our troops and commanders. I still believe that to have been true. The concern among many in the military was that given the longstanding view that homosexuality was incompatible with service, letting people who were openly gay serve would lower morale, harm recruitment and undermine unit cohesion.
In the early 1990s, large numbers of military personnel were opposed to letting openly gay men and lesbians serve. President Bill Clinton, who promised to lift the ban during his campaign, was overwhelmed by the strength of the opposition, which threatened to overturn any executive action he might take. The compromise that came to be known as dont
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
I guess statistics was not the General's long suit.
We are going in the wrong direction. We should extend the "don't ask, don't tell" policy to the civilian sector as well.
Don't forget about the female equation in this...There are some "practicing" lesbians serving our country with distinction in the armed services...
We just don't know who they are...
And with that said, from a veterans viewpoint...I would say that it may be a good thing we don't make a big deal out of this...again...
This is another attempt to bring down, from a certain political agenda's efforts, to errode the American military as a cohesive and viable force of this countries policies in the future...
This story was nothing but a bubble being put out there for some to pop...Thats just something to remember here...
Yes, good points worth reflecting on.
Soldier to soldier transfusions are not uncommon in a war.
Just recently a young Iraqi child was saved by walk-in blood donations from soldiers.
What would be the consequence if that child then contracted AIDS.
This is a terrible idea and consideration should be given to removing the don't ask, don't tell provision to outright denial of the ability to serve in our military in any capacity.
Yeah, right, let openly gay people into the military. For evey openly gay man (or woman) you recruit, I bet you'll lose five others. Part of the attraction of the military is that its a macho organization--one of the last places in our society where men can literally be men. Change that, and you will make it a lot less attractive to many--especially the warrior types! Also, people in the military tend to be more Southern and religious than the norm. Watch how fast base housing will empty out when you let homosexual couples live right next door to married ones.
And lastly, there is the small matter of getting hit on by gay members in positions of power. Not that it doesn't happen among straights, but most are programmed to deal with that. People will just bolt when their gay sergeant or Lt puts the screws to 'em to put out.
Will there be enough gay people to fill the ranks to deal with a straight exodus? Of course not--since they are such a small percentage of the population and inclined to...other things. And most of those who join will not be warrior types. So, both quantity and quality will suffer.
The fact is that anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that letting openly gay people serve is a formula for wrecking the Armed Forces. The dishonest, the bad actors, and the MSM will strive to portray it otherwise, however. Unfortunately, it will probably come to pass within the next 20 year--especially if we get a Democratic Congress + President.
Prediction: If openly queer folks are OKd for military service we will have to re-instate the draft.
Not many gay men want to be in the military, but a lot of gay women do. I only served once in a unit with females in it, but almost half of them were lesbians.
Still, one interesting thing about "gay-friendly" organisations is that the more open they are to gays, the fewer straights are interested in them. At some undefined "tipping point" the institution itself becomes "gay" and heteros lose all interest in it (example one: Broadway, which focuses on themes about homophobia and AIDS, neither of which has much interest for the straight community. Example two: the Episcopal Church, which has lost all sight of Christianity in its attempt to raise buggery to a sacrament).
Shalikashvili is a Clinton general, and one who has been a dependable signature on the less extreme set of "generals against the military" letters that some ex-JAG generals are always sending to the all-gay-all-the-time MSM papers like the Times.
Criminal Number 18F
Just an observation, but did you ever notice that many butch lesbians gravitate towards the military police corps? One reason I believe is that it is as close as a female can get to a combat arms MOS. Another is that they get a chance to assert their authority over male soldiers. I've seen many a butch female MP, complete with a male "high and tight" hair cut. Something is clearly not right, but because of don't ask don't tell, they are allowed to be as butch as they want to be.
I read of your comments on having homosexual NCO's and Officers in the military and immediately thought of the Fire Chief of Minneapolis. A lesbian herself she harrassed women and promoted other Lesbians , she refused promotions to straight men and she lost over 400,000 for the city in sexual harrassment lawsuits before being fired.
I dont think recruitment into an active homosexual Military would be so easy.
I think they ought to scrap the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy and institute a 'Just Shut Up Already' policy with all possible haste.
I agree 100%
Geesh....what REAL man would go into the military if there were open gays???? NONE!!! What REAL man wants to sleep in CLOSE QUARTERS with QUEERS??? NONE!! That ould END our fine military. Gen. Shalikashivi is a LOSER NUT!
did you ever notice that many butch lesbians gravitate towards the military police corps?
Oddly enough my first wife wound up in the MPs, but I never had a problem with her cheating on me with women, and she wasn't butch. But she got hit on a lot, which did not please her. Another friend was in the medical field, and she got hit on a lot too. The thing is that nobody turns gays in (even before DADT). I tried during my stint in a co-ed intel element, and was told, "if they are proficient in their MOS we don't want to get rid of them no matter how disruptive they are, because we are always shorthanded."
One reason I believe is that it is as close as a female can get to a combat arms MOS.
Yep. Many female officers in MI, also, are wannabee guys. Oddly enough women can serve in ADA, which
Another is that they get a chance to assert their authority over male soldiers. I've seen many a butch female MP, complete with a male "high and tight" hair cut.
Well, any female soldier can assert authority over male soldiers, based on rank. I never knew anybody, male or female, to have a problem with it, and I served in a pretty Neanderthal branch. When an individual gets into a power trip (it happens) and tries to rely on the overt military command structure for support, that individual forfeits respect, which is way more powerful than rank in actually getting things done.
Yeah, what ever happened to "the love that dare not speak its name"? Now it's "the love that will not shut its face." I liked (tolerated?) it better before.
Criminal Number 18F
A fag in every (fox)hole, eh? Shalikashvili is an idiot.
That was my second thought as well.
Something that bears repeating. Along with the fact the Hillary only approved their appointments if they looked bad on TV. She didn't want anyone on TV looking better than Bill and herself.
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