Many US Cities Have Had Murder Rates Higher Than Iraq's 2006 'Violent Death' Rate

Newsbusters ^ | 1/3/07 | Tom Blumer

[Man of the Right]

When I read something, I compare it to what I know. In philosophy, the question is: Is an argument internally consistent?

New Orleans Police officers killed in the line of duty, 2005-2007: 0.
http://secure.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=50&tabid=23

U.S. Casualties in Iraq, 2006: 785 KIA, other deaths 77, 6416 WIA.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

Iraqi security forces, KIA, 2006: 1543

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/iraq/articles/20070103.aspx

If New Orleans was more dangerous than Iraq, one would expect that at least one police officer would have been killed in the line of duty since 2004. Not so, according to the NOPD web site.

[Man of the Right]

When I read something, I compare it to what I know. In philosophy, the question is: Is an argument internally consistent?

New Orleans Police officers killed in the line of duty, 2005-2007: 0.
http://secure.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=50&tabid=23

U.S. Casualties in Iraq, 2006: 785 KIA, other deaths 77, 6416 WIA.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

Iraqi security forces, KIA, 2006: 1543

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/iraq/articles/20070103.aspx

If New Orleans was more dangerous than Iraq, one would expect that at least one police officer would have been killed in the line of duty since 2004. Not so, according to the NOPD web site.

The author of the article under-reported Iraqi deaths. For U.S. murder deaths, the one data point I checked. New York City, was off by 50%. The premise of the article -- that U.S. high-crime cities are more dangerous than Iraq is bunk.

[New Girl]

Here in Baltimore, three murders in the first three days of the New Year. Looks like we're right on target.

[pissant]

No, his premise is that the murder rate in "chimpy Bush's quagmire worst blunder in US history" is similar to that of some of our big cities have had in the past.

Once again, you can say apples and oranges, but he used the AP-Iraq Gov't death numbers

[Man of the Right]

Past U.S. murder rates are not readily available. The one data point I checked, New York City, was off by 50%.

If you truly believe Iraq is safer than high-crime U.S. cities, past or present, I can only wish you a wonderful life. You'd have to go back to the Civil War to find higher intensity combat in the U.S. than is occurring currently in Iraq.

In 2005, the most recent year available, there were 16,400 murders in the U.S. for a population of 296.4MM. According to Strategy Page, Iraq experienced 16,400 Iraqi deaths from political violence in a population of 27.6MM. Of course this excludes the 835 American service members killed in action or died from wounds. Further, it excludes murders in Iraq. Additionaly, it excludes hostile forces killed in action. Finally, it excludes coalition troops and contractors who were killed.

Then there is the obvious fact that 150,000 U.S. troops are committed to combat in Iraq. In contrast, even the highest-crime U.S. cities are patrolled by police officers in unarmored sedans. In New Orleans, cited as a high-crime city, no police officer was killed in the line of duty in 2005, 2006 or 2007 to date.

[SDGOP]

ping for later.

[BlueMondaySkipper]

something to consider, just who are the real enemies of the American people?

I'll bite...

Liberals?

[WhiteGuy]

something to consider, just who are the real enemies of the American people?
I'll bite...

Liberals?


are they? and if so what is the criteria? perhaps the real emenies are not defined so much by ideology as by occupation??????

[BlueMondaySkipper]

are they? and if so what is the criteria? perhaps the real emenies are not defined so much by ideology as by occupation??????

Nope, it's ideology, not occupations that are the bane of our existance

[george76]

[dynoman]

16,273 / 365 = 44.58 violent deaths per day.

Perspective;

Saddam executed an average of 69.4 people for every one of the 8,646 days he was in power. That is just those he executed, it does not include other violent deaths ie crime and war deaths like the 1,000,000 or so Iraqis who died during Saddam's wars of aggression against Iraq or Kuwait.

---

"I don't think the international community can just assume that they have no responsibility and assume that oil-for-food will take care of everything," Bellamy said, referring to the program that allows Iraq to sell $5.2 billion of oil every six months to buy food and medicine. "At the same time, I don't want to let the [Iraqi] government off the hook."

"In the most heavily populated regions of central and southern Iraq, the survey found the mortality rate for children under 5 years old has risen from 56 per 1,000 before the economic sanctions to 131 per
1,000. Infants less than 1 year old are now dying at a rate of 108 per 1,000, up from 47 per 1,000 before the sanctions. The picture was reversed, however, in the autonomous Kurdish territory of northern Iraq, which lies outside of Baghdad's control. A survey of 16,000 homes there revealed a declining mortality rate for children under 5. It has dropped from 80 deaths per 1,000 newborns before the Gulf War to 72 per 1,000 between 1994 and 1999. Bellamy attributed the discrepancy to the large amount of international aid pumped into northern Iraq at the end of the war. (No, the reality is that the Kurds were FREE, what a concept!) In contrast, humanitarian assistance began to reach central and southern Iraq only after April 1996, when Iraq agreed to the terms of the U.N.'s oil-for-food program."

http://www.casi.org.uk/discuss/1999/msg00439.html

---

"August 13, 1999 - Iraqi children under five are dying at more than twice the rate they were 10 years ago, a report by the United Nations' children's fund says.
The United States and the United Kingdom say the Iraqi Government is to blame for poverty and child deaths because it undermines the UN-backed oil-for-food programme.
However, Unicef says the international sanctions imposed on Iraq at the end of the Gulf war have also contributed.
Its report, compiled with the co-operation of Iraq, is the first survey of child and maternal mortality since the end of the Gulf War in 1991.

In what it describes as an "ongoing humanitarian emergency", it shows a dramatic rise in child mortality rates in central and southern Iraq - areas controlled by Baghdad.

Unicef estimates that over the last 10 years at least 500,000 child deaths could have been prevented." (50,000 per year average, 156 average per day, out of a under five population of 3-4 million. http://www.casi.org.uk/info/garfield/dr-garfield.html )

http://www.iraqieconomy.org/home/sanctions/press(1990-2003)/19990813

---

"During Saddam’s long reign, the Iraqi death rate from democide (the government killing its own people) averaged over 100 per 100,000 a year. This does not include the several hundred thousand killed during the war with Iran in the 1980s."

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2005814231422.asp

---

"Kill tally: Approaching two million, including between 150,000 and 340,000 Iraqi and between 450,000 and 730,000 Iranian combatants killed during the Iran-Iraq War. An estimated 1,000 Kuwaiti nationals killed following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. No conclusive figures for the number of Iraqis killed during the Gulf War, with estimates varying from as few as 1,500 to as many as 200,000. Over 100,000 Kurds killed or "disappeared". No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Hussein's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000. (Mass graves discovered following the US occupation of Iraq in 2003 suggest that the total combined figure for Kurds, Shias and dissidents killed could be as high as 300,000). Approximately 500,000 Iraqi children dead because of international trade sanctions introduced following the Gulf War." Saddam's fault he had the money and chose not to spend it on food and medicine, we now know where that money went.)

http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html

---

"Along with other human rights organizations, The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq. Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis. Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam's needless war with Iran. Coldly taken as a daily average for the 24 years of Saddam's reign, these numbers give us a horrifying picture of between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam's 8,000-odd days in power."

http://www.gbn.com/ArticleDisplayServlet.srv?aid=2400&msp=1242

---

[dynoman]

ping to 111

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

Houston got a redeployment from New Orleans. They didn't like it.

That'll leave a mark. (Massachusetts took in a coupla score thousand of Katrina refugees. I told my wife we wouldn't have any shortage of bar tenders, prosititutes, drug dealers or car jackers for the next couple of decades.)