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To: madprof98
The numbers increased rapidly as the Shah's regime became increasingly repressive. From Migration Information Source (online):

I don't buy your premise. I worked at the US Embassy form 1977-79. There was no correlation I am aware of between the number of Iranian students in the US and the amount of repression by the Shah who assumed power in 1941. In fact, at the advice of Carter and Vance, the Shah became less oppressive during the period you cite of increased enrollment. The Shah was counseled by us to restrain the use of Savak against the opposition during the last years of his regime. The Iranian government permitted the students to leave and study in the US. They demonstrated against the Shah in the US with paper bags over their heads.

Most of the students I taught during that volatile period expressed both fear and hatred of the Shah's regime. They also expressed horror at what they perceived as America's depravity. Did these young men--for almost all of them were men--visit strip bars and the like? A lot of them did. Seeing the worst of American culture made them hate us at least as much as they hated the Shah.

Nonsense. The educated elite of Iran were embracing American and Western culture. In Tehran alone, there were more than 70,000 Americans working and living there. There were Kentucky Fried Chicken franchises, bars, etc. You could buy Playboy on the newsstands. Many government officials, professors, etc. were educated in the US. To blame the downfall of the Shah on the "depravity" of America is simply wrong.

The opposition to the Shah came from a number of different factions. Without going into the rationale and reasons for all of the groups that opposed him, the ecomonic and social reforms of the White Revolution in the 1960s engendered the hatred of land owners and the mullahs. Extending the right to vote to women, land reform, privatization, etc. affected their power. Iran was the first Muslim country to recognize Israel. The Baazaries were unhappy about the payoffs they had to make to corrupt government officials. I could go on and on. The point is that America's depravity had little to nothing to do with the downfall of the Shah.

58 posted on 01/24/2007 9:25:58 AM PST by kabar
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To: kabar
The point is that America's depravity had little to nothing to do with the downfall of the Shah.

I never argued that it did. I was trying to explain why I think D'Souza's book is on target. By way of illustration, I pointed out that my Iranian students very quickly developed a hatred FOR THE UNITED STATES because they came to see us as depraved.

As for the reasons for the student influx at the time of the Shah's fall, I can only point out that the numbers support my point: Iranian students--many of them totally unfamiliar with America and even with the English language--came to this country in droves in the years immediately before the Shah's fall. Were they afraid of the Shah? Well, that may be why they put bags on their heads at demonstrations against his regime!

59 posted on 01/24/2007 9:56:13 AM PST by madprof98 ("moritur et ridet" - salvianus)
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To: kabar

kabar -

Thanks for your insight and I believe you are correct about the many reasons the Shah fell in Iran. I still think Carter made a fundamental miscalculation that is costing us dearly today but I agree that there are many reasons for what happened.

I also agree there are many reasons for what exists today and in no way do I (or probably any others on this thread) think this subject is the ultimate explanation for the conflict.

It is a small part of the "why" and I think we should all endeavor to understand it. If we understand what D'Souza points out we can better understand the fundamental differences between our culture and theirs. My hope is that the sooner we understand that the sooner we will realize that we are not going to "Americanize" them.


62 posted on 01/24/2007 10:36:03 AM PST by volunbeer (Dear heaven.... we really need President Reagan again!)
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