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Prosecutors object to 'shoot the burglar' law
Bismarck Tribune (North Dakota) ^ | 1/31/07 | DALE WETZEL/AP

Posted on 02/01/2007 8:44:49 AM PST by kiriath_jearim

Prosecutors say a bill that offers strong liability protection for homeowners who shoot intruders is unnecessary, and may block criminal charges in situations where they may be warranted.

"We have a current policy in North Dakota that the use of deadly force is not justified if it can be avoided," said Ladd Erickson, the McLean County state's attorney. "We shouldn't shoot people if we can avoid shooting people."

The legislation, which the North Dakota House's Judiciary Committee began reviewing Monday, says a person is presumed to be acting in self-defense if he shoots a burglar in his home, or a carjacker trying to get into a vehicle. It does not bar prosecutors from attempting to prove otherwise.

The bill, introduced by Rep. Todd Porter, R-Mandan, also gives the shooter immunity from a civil lawsuit filed in connection with a justified shooting. The carjacker or burglar, or his family, cannot collect damages from the shooter.

At present, North Dakota law says deadly force "is not justified if it can be avoided, with safety to the actor or others, by retreat or other conduct involving minimal interference with the freedom of the person menaced." The proposed legislation would delete that language.

Darin Goens, a lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, said the law should not require someone to give ground to an intruder in his or her own home. Nor should someone who is the victim of an illegal break-in or an attempted carjacking be worried about a lawsuit if he or she shoots the perpetrator, Goens said.

"Under the current statute in this state, (prosecutors) can charge you for defending yourself, and we feel that simply is wrong," Goens said. "When a criminal undertakes bad intentions, you shouldn't have to wonder why they're in your business, why they're in your home."

Lawmakers quizzed Goens about a sentence in the proposed law, included in a section that outlines the justification for use of deadly force, that says: "An individual does not have the duty to retreat if the individual is in a place where that individual has a right to be."

Rep. Lois Delmore, D-Grand Forks, said the language would apply to almost any location.

"It could be a park. It could be a street, as long as I have a right to be there," Delmore told Goens. "If I feel scared, I have a weapon, and I think somebody's after me, I can turn around and take care of the situation?"

The Judiciary Committee's chairman, Rep. Duane DeKrey, R-Pettibone, appointed a subcommittee to probe the legislation further. Its members are Reps. Lawrence Klemin, R-Bismarck; Kim Koppelman, R-West Fargo; and Lisa Wolf, D-Minot.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; US: North Dakota
KEYWORDS: banglist
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1 posted on 02/01/2007 8:44:51 AM PST by kiriath_jearim
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To: kiriath_jearim
Prosecutors know the difference between murder and self-defense. I shouldn't have to retreat from my home or my car to protect myself.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

2 posted on 02/01/2007 8:46:49 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: kiriath_jearim

This is well and fine, but some people just need shooting.


3 posted on 02/01/2007 8:46:54 AM PST by x1stcav (I always thought he was a Murthaf*cker.)
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To: kiriath_jearim
Wonder what they would do if it was their house? Let the the burglar/home invaders have their way?
4 posted on 02/01/2007 8:48:51 AM PST by Edgerunner (Better RED state than DEAD state)
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To: kiriath_jearim
"The bill, introduced by Rep. Todd Porter, R-Mandan, also gives the shooter immunity from a civil lawsuit filed in connection with a justified shooting. The carjacker or burglar, or his family, cannot collect damages from the shooter. "

In today's sue crazy world this is so important now. You win in a court of law but a hand picked jury of idiots gives everything you own to some scumbag or his/her family helped by a money grubbing lawyer for revenge.

5 posted on 02/01/2007 8:49:09 AM PST by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: kiriath_jearim
"We have a current policy in North Dakota that the use of deadly force is not justified if it can be avoided," said Ladd Erickson, the McLean County state's attorney. "We shouldn't shoot people if we can avoid shooting people."

Loosely translated - "stop trying to put us prosecuters out of business."

6 posted on 02/01/2007 8:49:29 AM PST by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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To: kiriath_jearim
To prosecutors: shut up and sing, it is legislature's job to write the law, your job is to enforce it.
7 posted on 02/01/2007 8:51:20 AM PST by alex
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To: kiriath_jearim
Prosecutors say a bill that offers strong liability protection for homeowners who shoot intruders is unnecessary, and may block criminal charges in situations where they may be warranted.


Prosecutors prefer the present system where they can make criminal charges in situations where they are  unwarranted.
8 posted on 02/01/2007 8:54:51 AM PST by grjr21
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To: kerryusama04

"Loosely translated - "stop trying to put us prosecuters out of business."

So true...fewer criminals means fewer prosecutors. I'll bet the defense lawyers feel the same way. Our current injustice system is a great jobs program for those who graduated from law school.


9 posted on 02/01/2007 8:56:39 AM PST by kittymyrib
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To: kiriath_jearim
More lawyers wanting their cut from the taxpayers. Lawyers, especially prosecutors, are useless.
Now don't you go defending yourself because if you do, you may put me out of a job. scream the lawyers.
10 posted on 02/01/2007 8:56:49 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk)
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To: kiriath_jearim

Why doesn't Erickson concentrate on locking up the criminals so that such a provision need not be utilized? Hmmm. "A burglary gone wrong and a homeowner who used a firearm for self defense. I, the prosecutor, sees two crimes but I'll bet the FBI stats say only one. So, if I prosecute the homeowner I will have cleared one case against the one case added to my requirement. Seems a lot easier than prosecuting a criminal and I'll have a 100% closure rate. Works for me." Erickson's thought process?


11 posted on 02/01/2007 8:58:08 AM PST by NonValueAdded (Pelosi, the call was for Comity, not Comedy. But thanks for the laughs. StarKisses, NVA.)
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To: kiriath_jearim
"We shouldn't shoot people if we can avoid shooting people."

Well no shiite, Sherlock. However, if someone enters my home at night without my permission (i.e. when all of the doors and windows are locked, and the later at night the worse), I'd be insane and unbelievably irresponsible to not think that that person presented a mortal threat to me and my family, and to act accordingly (i.e. shoot first, ask questions later). After all, perps are usually somewhat resistant to the idea of completing a questionairre detailing their intentions, listing any and all weapons on their person, checking their references, etc.

Instead of placing the moral/legal burden on innocent homeowners, why don't the idiot prosecutors place the responsibility and risk for illegally entering someone's home on the perps?

12 posted on 02/01/2007 8:59:21 AM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: kiriath_jearim

This guy is just another politically ambitious prosecutor.

The old saying, "when you have a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail" applies here.

When you're a prosecutor, everything looks like a crime.


13 posted on 02/01/2007 9:00:36 AM PST by Disambiguator
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To: kiriath_jearim

"We have a current policy... that the use of deadly force is not justified..." said Ladd Erickson.

Having thus advertised his vulnerability, some thug someplace is probably planning a visit....

14 posted on 02/01/2007 9:01:26 AM PST by GoldCountryRedneck ("Idiocy - Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers" - despair.com)
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To: Ancesthntr
My thoughts exactly. The legal burden should be on the perp to prove he had a reason to be there. The homeowner shouldn't have to show he was justified to be in his own home. Simple and straight.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

15 posted on 02/01/2007 9:01:33 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: kittymyrib
So true...fewer criminals means fewer prosecutors. I'll bet the defense lawyers feel the same way. Our current injustice system is a great jobs program for those who graduated from law school.

It means less *gasp* cops, too.

16 posted on 02/01/2007 9:02:00 AM PST by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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To: goldstategop
Yep. Just like Nifong knew the difference between rape and trying to extort more money out of a client.
17 posted on 02/01/2007 9:02:33 AM PST by fireforeffect (A kind word and a 2x4, gets you more than just a kind word.)
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To: GoldCountryRedneck
Idiot prosecutor. No one is calling for a Wild West shootout. The presumption is merely you can defend yourself where you have a legal right to be - whether that's your home, your car or any other place where you are on lawful business.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

18 posted on 02/01/2007 9:03:29 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: kiriath_jearim

Pure politics...most DAs are more interested in padding their resumes with easy convictions instead of doing the work to try the hard cases against professional criminals.


19 posted on 02/01/2007 9:05:37 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Voted Free Republic's Most Eligible Bachelor: 2006. Love them Diebold machines.)
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To: Ancesthntr
"why don't the idiot prosecutors place the responsibility and risk for illegally entering someone's home on the perps?"

Because it is all Bush's fault. He created this horrible economy (low unemployment, low interest rates, increased wages, reduced federal deficit) that has forced, FORCED these poor starving souls to enter a home to beg for food. Oh the humanity. If it weren't for Bush the world would be Paradise!!!!!!!!!
20 posted on 02/01/2007 9:06:40 AM PST by MPJackal ("If you are not with us, you are against us.")
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