"Atlanta police face murder indictment" in shooting of 92-year-old woman in her home

ajc.com ^ | 2-7-07 | Bill Torpy

[fr_freak]

No-knock raids are wrong, period. If you have the wrong address, an innocent person could get killed. However, even if you have the correct address, you are initiating a level of violence that almost guarantees that someone is going to die. Complete surprise means that the resident of the house has only a split second to react to the situation and, if woken from sleep, will not be thinking clearly on top of that. It would be more rare for someone not to respond with instinctive fear than for him to respond with compliance.

From a legal standpoint, there is no possible way that the Founders, who foresaw the need to include explicitly a protection against unreasonable searches and seizures in the Constitution, intended for that protection to allow police to kick in doors with no forewarning and no care for who is in the house. Any interpretation of that protection that can conceive of this kind of reckless action being allowed is outright ridiculous.

[khnyny]

If your version is correct, can you supply a link? Also, IIRC, the closest relative to the 92 year old woman was, I believe, a niece in her 70's, not a "he" and not a "junior".

I agree with others who oppose these "no knock" raids. IMHO, "no knock" raids create more problems for everyone in the long run, with countless stories of police going to the wrong house and unwarranted and unnecessary violence.

[GingisK]

and this somehow a murder

They were acting on a tip from a known liar. There are additional circumstances that indicate failed procedure.

[Oberon]

They bust the door down, she pulls a revolver and starts blasting, they kill her returning fire, and this somehow a murder ?

Imagine that the perps were not police officers, and the question answers itself. I don't think the cops in question deserve a different legal standard than you and I would face in their place.

[Blueflag]

Don't have a link cuz it was all a series of reports here on the FOX5ATLANTA Ch 5 10 o'clock news.

There were never any drugs found on the first floor of the house where grandma lived. The police (reportedly verified by the FEDS) found a small (not boxes full) amount of drugs (don't remember what) when they cut through the lock and went in the basement. Reportedly the basement only had exterior rear entry (which they showed a bazillion times on the news).

Also bear in mind the cops used an informant (reliable in the past) to 'verify' drugs were being sold at the address. Plus the 'address' had been watched for some period of time by the narcs to observe behaviour consistent with drug selling. The snitch LATER publicly recanted his advice to the cops and went on video saying the cops made him say it.

If you want the links, search the archives of www.myfoxatlanta.com or contact the producer(s) there. They reported all this stuff before it became a witchhunt.

So don't jump to the conclusion that this was all bad from the start.

The cops had reason to believe drugs were being sold at the house. That part of Atlanta you'd be hard pressed to find 5 houses in 20 that did not exhibit suspicious activity.

Yes, it all went wrong. But it didn't really start that way.

[silentreignofheroes]

Ther are a lot of drugs in this little Alabama Town we live in,,that's what we're looking out for..and there's alot of older folks that live alone,,I don't blame her a bit,,she was trying to give her grandson a place to live and grow,,he is guilty of killing his Granny as far as I'm concerned...

[Skywalk]

NO excuse for no-knock raids. Especially for drugs. If the criminal destroys the evidence, so what, it's not a nuke device, who cares.

By that logic, EVERY SINGLE DRUG ARREST could be a no-knock raid. What a wonderful world that would be.

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

They shouldn't have been busting her door down. There's way too much of that going on out in the country these days, with every town and community pretty much having its own SWAT team.

[Blueflag]

I understand your displeasure with no knock raids. I was not defending them.

These guys executed a no-knock raid that went bad ... but they did so with orders/warrants from higher ups. The grunts should NOT get charged with murder.

[lesser_satan]

No, this "upstanding" member of the justice system need to be introduced to the Second Amendment because he apparently has no knowledge of it

They should be "introduced" to a noose.

From what I've heard, they tried to coerce the informant to change his story, or to fabricate one to cover their asses, and he's since disappeared, probably into the witness protection program.

I don't know if this is true or not. But unless there is a hostage situation or a terrorist with a suitcase nuke, no-knock raids should be abolished. It's not worth it to bust somebody for a bag of pot.

[3niner]

It wasn't the wrong house. It was just the wrong door. Other news items (not this one) reported that the police LATER found drugs in the locked (padlocked) basement of the house. Apparently "junior" HAD been selling or partaking from the address, but grandma was not involved or aware.

There has been a lot of NAACP cries for 'justice' on this one. One guy even flew up to DC to get the Feds involved. So now these poor cops are gonna get Nifonged.

This is the trouble with "no-knock warrents", they are designed to result in violent confrontations. Sometimes the police get the wrong house, sometimes it is the right house, but the wrong person. They could have tried arresting the perp on the street, but that would have required a bit more police work.

They decided to take the lazier, more exciting approach, and just kill an innocent old woman. They deserve to fry for it.

[Rhiannon]

I heard originally they found drugs, but then the police did not mention that anymore.Beside according to the neice who had bought the house and the gun she was living by herself. So where did junior come from? Do you have a link?

[GBA]

I am not a 92 year old woman, nor, I imagine, are many of the rest of us. None the less, I can easily see myself or many others here reacting exactly as she did if caught unaware, or surprised, or maybe woken up from a sound sleep to some intruders with guns.

The assumption I'd make is not that those intruders are are cops, b/c I know I wasn't doing anything for the cops to be breaking in on me unannounced like that. Nope, anyone breaking in on me would be someone intent on doing me harm. Bang! Five shots and she hit all three. Impressive.

I don't know if murder is the right charge, but cops can't go busting in on someone and kill them because they were protecting themselves and get away with it with a slap on the wrist and administrative leave. The Second Amendment is ultimately for we, the people, to protect ourselves against the government. Bang!

[Blueflag]

See my post #42.

This was 'headline news' here in ATL for days. The info I posted was what the newsbabes reported and what B-roll they showed with her voice-over.

IF it really bugs you that I don't have links, go to myfoxatlanta.com or fox5atlanta.com and look in the archived news reports.

There's really two threads here -- one that expresses understandable disgust with no-knock outcomes; the other is about whether or not the cops should be charged with murder. I see it as wrongful death, not murder. IF the cops went in all 'cowboy' on their own with no warrant, no permissions from the Sarge, then it was murder. But these guys, however too-gung-ho, were acting within policy guidelines. It went all bad for a lot of bad reasons.

[jcparks]

We are witnessing the end run around Posse-Commitatus with the militarization of police departments, as well as illegal repeals of the BOR (McCain-Feingold). But that's OK, as long as the people have their American Idol every week...
morons

[supercat]

Sounds like junior was taking advantage of Grandma,,,and she was scared..Sad state this country is in,,in this case junior should be charged with murder...? you reckon.

So Junior forced the cops to make up a story so they could get a perjured no-knock warrant?

[Kevmo]

They decided to take the lazier, more exciting approach
***I had posted on the earlier thread that it seemed like the adrenaline cowboys had taken over policy decisions. If it was a matter of stopping up their toilet so that the drugs couldn't be flushed, then a daylight warrant search would have saved her life and these adrenaline junkies eventually would move on to something else. Police work involves a lot of drudgery. David Koresh could have been picked up on his weekly trip to buy groceries.

[Rhiannon]

Thanks for the fast reply. I had followed the original story and did not hear any confirmation of drugs. The cops may be guilty. If they are the ones that asked for a no knock warrant based on faulty information, then the cops are responsible. If they were sent in on some elses wrong info , then they may not be guilty.

In any case, no knocks should be unconstitutional. Drugs are not a good enough reason to act like thugs.

[mugs99]

They should put the moronic judge that signed the warrant on trial also

These death squad killings won't stop until judges are held accountable. That judge should be tried for conspiracy to commit murder.
.

[Kevmo]

Thanks for pointing us to FoxAtlanta




Informant Says Police Asked Him to Lie

Last Edited: Monday, 27 Nov 2006, 7:42 PM EST
Created: Monday, 27 Nov 2006, 6:24 PM EST


ATLANTA (FOX5) -- A confidential police informant tells FOX5 News APD officers asked him to lie about events leading up to the fatal shooting of an elderly woman.



http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=1614593&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1