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Utah's Teenage Killer, the Muslim Connection Ignored
NewsBusters.org ^ | 2/15/07 | Warner Todd Huston

Posted on 02/15/2007 11:28:06 AM PST by Mobile Vulgus

I have been watching the "reportage" on the regrettable incident of a teenaged killer's rampage in a Utah shopping mall with mounting interest. In nearly every story of this crime the fact that this youngster is from a Muslim background is either muted or ignored altogether.

The AP, for instance, avoids identifying the boy as a Muslim in all their stories that I saw. In one, they merely identify the region in Bosnia in which he lived as the "northeastern enclave where up to 8,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered in 1995" but do not even speculate as to the boy or his family being Muslims. It is all rather dutifully avoided. In another story, the AP doesn't even use the word Muslim at all.

Even in the local press, like the Utah Desert News, the issue of his background is ignored or made entirely incidental. The Desert News, in fact, makes just one mention that the "family are Muslims from Bosnia who had lived in the vicinity of Sarajevo" in a rather lengthy and otherwise complete story of the incident.

Worse, the New York Times is making the wild assumption that it is "Bosnian immigrants", not the rest of America, that should be afraid for their lives in theirs titled "Anti-Bosnian Backlash Feared in Utah".

In the Times' story the Muslin issue is given scant notice and the focus is put on how we ignorant Americans are sure to start beating up "Bosnians" right and left. The word Muslim seems to have been replaced rather ridiculously with "Bosnian", as if Americans will seek out "Bosnians" upon which to take out their anger instead of Muslims. The fact is, though, "Bosnians" do not loom as the enemy in the minds of Americans, but Muslims do. How many Americans would instantly become wary if someone were to tell them they are "Bosnian"?

In the Times' story the word Muslim is used exactly once:

The number of Bosnian refugees in the Salt Lake City area has been estimated to be 3,000 to 7,000, most of them Muslims fleeing violence by Serbs in the early 1990s.
So, the Times seems to feel regular Americans are the threat not rampaging Muslims. And, even if this boy was not a practicing Muslim, something we do not know as a factor because of the current deficient state of reporting, the fact that he is from a Muslim family is quite germane to the story.

I would find it perfectly reasonable to include in these stories language that could benignly bring up the issue without fanning the flames of anti-Muslim sentiment. It would not be beyond reasonability to say something such as "It is not known if the boy's Muslim background is a factor in his rampage", or some such rhetoric.

But to wholly ignore the issue seems rather un-journalistic, wouldn't you say? It would also seem to be out of character for the MSM in the normal scheme of things.

The 18 year-old killer, Sulejmen Talovic, was driven from his home with his Mother at four, he lived in the aforementioned refugee camp until he was about 9 and then he moved to the USA with his family in 1998. He was thought to be a "loner" with no friends, but wasn't thought of as a trouble maker, being generally a quiet youngster.

That all ended this week with his murderous trip to the mall.

Of course, it isn't possible with what is known to say that his Muslim background directly led to this rampage, or that it was a result of religious extremism. It is wholly possible that this kid was so mentally traumatized by his young life in a war zone that he snapped.

But, here are some interesting facts. The USA is the good guy in the story of Bosnia's Muslims. In fact, Bosnian Muslims today are one of the few Muslim communities who have thus far violently opposed the kind of religious hatred funded by the Saudis with their exportation of Wahhabism and one of the few that are vehemently pro-American because of the advocacy the US offered them in the efforts to stop Slabodon Milosevic's campaigns of ethnic cleansing.

So, it seems somewhat unlikely that he learned any hatred of the USA from his familial traditions.

But the boy is still a Muslim and he wouldn't be the only one to stray from his family's traditions and ideals to take on a radical ideology.

So we are left with at least two possibilities as to the boy's motives.

Neither possibility is discussed in any story about this incident, however.

The question is, why is his Muslim background being completely ignored?

Is it just a question of not knowing the facts and the MSM doesn't want to speculate? This would be a hard thing to believe since speculation is one of their favorite games. Remember how Timothy McVeigh was immediately called a Christian, a White Separatist, or that he was part of a militia, etc.? There was little waiting for facts to emerge with McVeigh. Another incident that showed the MSM's willingness to run with any point no matter if it is proven or not was the Richard Jewel bombing story. That poor guy was so hounded by the MSM that it ruined his life as he was convicted in the press before anything was ascertained.

So, are we to believe that the MSM suddenly got a conscience and decided to go cautious on this boy's Muslim background?

It's doubtful!

But as to the MSM's real motive on this one... well, I'll leave that to each of you.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Utah; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: islam; muslim; sjs; suddenjihadsyndrome; terrorist; utah; whichmosque
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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...but we KNOW all Muslims are innocent in the eyes of the MSM! It's the evil Christians we gotta watch out for!
1 posted on 02/15/2007 11:28:08 AM PST by Mobile Vulgus
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To: Mobile Vulgus

don't forget the drive-by amish....clip clop...clip clop...BANG..clip clop..clip clop...


2 posted on 02/15/2007 11:30:24 AM PST by GeorgiaDawg32 (I'm a Patriot Guard Rider..www.patriotguard.org for info..)
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To: Mobile Vulgus
Shhhhhh! You slandering "The Religion of Peace."

I just heard Rush compare GWB to Richard Nixon. Damn Rush is smart.
3 posted on 02/15/2007 11:32:34 AM PST by EndWelfareToday (Live free and keep what you earn. - Tancredo or Hunter)
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To: Mobile Vulgus
So we are left with at least two possibilities as to the boy's motives.
  • He adopted a radical Muslim hatred of the west
  • He was so traumatized by his youth he just snapped and there is no religious influence

Neither possibility is discussed in any story about this incident, however.

The last sentence is not accurate. As of yesterday afternoon, the Associated Press started floating the story that Talovic was a post-traumatic stress syndrome sufferer:

Suspect in Utah Killings Fled Bosnia War [the Associated Press at its finest]

4 posted on 02/15/2007 11:34:22 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: Mobile Vulgus

You want things to be worse? start pushing people into a corner. You didn't cast aspersions upon all cannibals when you found out Dahmer was one, did you?

LOL it's still in bad taste for the media to be banging the bigotry drum. Bigotry happens when you use the actions of a few to blanket indict the many.


5 posted on 02/15/2007 11:34:37 AM PST by kinghorse (calls them like I sees them)
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To: Mobile Vulgus

Is that supposed to be a beard?


6 posted on 02/15/2007 11:38:11 AM PST by BunnySlippers
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To: Mobile Vulgus
Home made video is here. Look for "home video".

It does not show much but you can hear what's happening. The off duty officer was very brave considering he was in plain clothes which could have led to confusion with the other officers arriving and that he had only one clip of ammo.

7 posted on 02/15/2007 11:39:22 AM PST by isthisnickcool (Rick Perry for governor.Of another state!)
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To: Mobile Vulgus

The real motive of the media in this is to hide the truth from us. Some would say that the media don't want us to panic.
Others would say that the media feel that the unmentionable people are poor, downtrodden, underclass have-nots and therefore should be forgiven for whatever evil they do.


8 posted on 02/15/2007 11:40:27 AM PST by Leftism is Mentally Deranged (mediabots are 100% in the tank for jihadists)
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To: Mobile Vulgus
"Screech! Racism!"
9 posted on 02/15/2007 11:41:25 AM PST by pabianice
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To: snarks_when_bored
Here's an incomplete list of Sudden Jihad Syndrome terrorists who were all described as acting alone by the cops and/or FBI:

Ali R. Warrayat
An Arizona Home Depot employee jumped out of the car’s path. To drown out the man’s yells, Warrayat reached over to his car radio and blasted Arabic music before crashing through the front doors.

Charles Bishop (Bishra)
A note written by the 15-year-old boy who crashed a Cessna into a Tampa office building indicated he supported Osama bin Laden and that the act was deliberate, authorities say.

Haider Mohammed
Contacted by Palm Springs Police, FBI investigators described Muslim who was arrested after threatening to 'Kill All Jews' as "not a person of interest."

Hesham Mohamed Ali Hadayet
The suspect, Egyptian-born Hesham Mohamed Ali Hadayet, left two people dead and five injured at the El Al airlines ticket counter at Los Angeles International Airport before being fatally shot by a security guard.

John Muhammad
Federal prosecutors filed a criminal complaint, charging alleged Beltway Sniper John Muhammad with 20 felony counts, including extortion and intent to commit murder.

Marc Lepine (Gamal Gharbhi)
For 45 minutes on Dec. 6, 1989 an enraged gunman roamed the corridors of Montreal's École Polytechnique and killed 14 women.

Mohammed Ali Alayed
After apparently undergoing a religious awakening, a Saudi Arabian student in Houston killed his Jewish friend by slashing his throat.

Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar
Just-graduated student named Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar, 22, and an Iranian immigrant, drove a sport utility vehicle into a crowded pedestrian zone at University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill. He struck nine people.

Naveed Afzal Haq
Eyewitnesses told the Seattle News that Mr. Haq announced, "I'm a Muslim American; I'm angry at Israel," and then began shooting. He killed one woman and wounded five others.

Omeed Aziz Popal
Up to 14 hurt in San Francisco hit-and-run spree. Seven are critical. The driver believed to have struck and killed a man in Fremont earlier.

Sulejman Talovic
Police Tuesday identified the gunman accused in Monday night's Trolley Square shooting as Sulejman Talovic, an 18-year-old Bosnian refugee who lived in Salt Lake City.

When you have victims of Sudden Jihad Syndrome piling up all over the country, the reasonable person would conclude -- that's terrorism.

Whether the root cause of these rampages is in the genes of these maniacs or the result of a conspiracy is completely irrelevant.

10 posted on 02/15/2007 11:41:30 AM PST by Beckwith (The dhimmicrats and liberal media have chosen sides and they've sided with the Jihadists.)
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To: Mobile Vulgus

True. I've only heard the guy described as "Muslim" on Rush and here.


11 posted on 02/15/2007 11:47:20 AM PST by NewCenturions
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To: All
RE: old media ignores

And that's the way it is February, 2007.

Society of Professional Propagandizing Journalists Diversity guidelines for professional "journalists" requires it since within days of 9/11/01.

To wit,

Avoid using word combinations such as 'Islamic terrorist' or 'Muslim extremist' . . .

Avoid using terms such as 'jihad' unless you are certain of their precise meaning ... [jihad means] to exert oneself for the good of Islam and to better oneself.

Ask men and women from within targeted communities to review your coverage and make suggestions. [read: censor]

When writing about terrorism, remember to include white supremacist, radical anti-abortionists and other groups with a history of such activity.

12 posted on 02/15/2007 11:49:59 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: kinghorse
"Bigotry happens when you use the actions of a few to blanket indict the many." You said

Arguments based on emotionally laden words "Bigot" are not sound.

Of course we judge larger groups based on the actions of representatives of this population. In fact there is nothing wrong with it and it is sound reasoning to do so.
13 posted on 02/15/2007 11:50:37 AM PST by Red6 (Come and get it.)
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To: Mobile Vulgus

bookmark


14 posted on 02/15/2007 11:51:14 AM PST by DocRock (What would Solomon Do?)
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To: Mobile Vulgus

Why am I not surprised that this guy was a Muslim?
I remember back in December, the cops busted a wannabe Muslim terrorist in Ohio who planned on attacking a shopping mall with grenades hidden in trash cans.


15 posted on 02/15/2007 11:51:51 AM PST by Chewie84
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To: Mobile Vulgus
As a nation we have no mechanism left for survival.
We willingly ignore the fact that our enemy is our enemy. Islam declared war on US. We didn't start the war, we didn't want the war, but one sure fire way to lose the war is to deny that our enemy is our enemy.
16 posted on 02/15/2007 11:52:23 AM PST by GrandEagle
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To: Mobile Vulgus

It wont be ignored if someone cleans up the sound on the mall video and picks up and confirms the "Allah Akbar" chant in the background when the police confronted him.


17 posted on 02/15/2007 11:52:51 AM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: Mobile Vulgus
Worse, the New York Times is making the wild assumption that it is "Bosnian immigrants", not the rest of America, that should be afraid for their lives in theirs titled "Anti-Bosnian Backlash Feared in Utah".

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

My anger prompts me to refrain from commenting on this type of article, but that is worse than indifference.
It never occured to the mental midgets at the New York Times that, absent the crazed frenzy of mass murder by the muslim killer, no "Anti-Bosnian immigrant backlash" charecterization would be possible!

18 posted on 02/15/2007 11:53:14 AM PST by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: Beckwith
RE: Sudden Jihad Syndrome

Good one!

A search found only one hit on "Sudden Jihad Syndrome" from more than a year ago. It's catchy and should be used often, IMO.

The hit came with

TERRORISM 2006, Special Bibliography No. 330 August 2006 Compiled by Maxwell AFB, AL personnel. Hundreds of references at

http://www.au.af.mil/au/aul/bibs/terror06.htm

Thanks!

19 posted on 02/15/2007 12:00:28 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: Beckwith
Thank you for that excellent collection of individual muslims acting out their rage, and getting away with excuses.

I have saved it and will repost it at every opportunity. The clueless right here on FR, for whatever reason, ignorance, stupidity, political correctness, kum-ba-ya syndrome, whatever, still refuse to see the obvious.

I hope that you don't mind my "borrowing" it.

20 posted on 02/15/2007 12:02:33 PM PST by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: Pride in the USA; Stillwaters; Beckwith
Ping!

Even if you just scan the original article (which is definitely worth reading), please read post #10 (click here) in the context of the article.

Nicely summarized and very important info, in my humble opinion.

21 posted on 02/15/2007 12:02:35 PM PST by lonevoice (It's always "Apologize to a Muslim" hour...somewhere)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
RE: "Sudden Jihad Syndrome" hits.

Correction, only one hit on a government only search, that is.

But, because of that I went directly to what could be a trove in the TERRORISM 2006, Special Bibliography.

22 posted on 02/15/2007 12:07:39 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: Mobile Vulgus
but we KNOW all Muslims are innocent in the eyes of the MSM! It's the evil Christians we gotta watch out for!

And in the case of presidential politics, its the evil Mormons! Matter of fact, possibly a few of the Porter Rockwell (google it) crowd should pay a visit to a couple of the local mosques.

23 posted on 02/15/2007 12:11:41 PM PST by Utah Binger (Kane County Utah, where the world comes to see America)
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To: NewCenturions

Savage did so the first day.


24 posted on 02/15/2007 12:20:14 PM PST by fishtank
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To: Mobile Vulgus

Has there been any mention of police doing further investigation of this 18 year old? Did he have, or have access to a computer? Did he have a cell phone? Have any of the press spoken to kids that know of him when he was in school? Where the heck did he store his weapons?


25 posted on 02/15/2007 12:20:36 PM PST by uvular
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To: BunnySlippers
Is that supposed to be a beard?

It's what I would call a "Chia beard."

26 posted on 02/15/2007 12:25:48 PM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: Beckwith

Ping to post #10


27 posted on 02/15/2007 12:28:32 PM PST by angelsonmyside
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To: Mobile Vulgus

In September joined a Monday night mixed bowling league as a "walk in" to be put on any team that needed a female bowler. I was placed with 2 young men, who I thought might be Italian or Greek by the complexions, but whose names I didn't recognize.

They are very nice, very young, 18 and 20 and very tolerant of my inconsistent scores. I couldn't recognize the language they sometimes spoke to each other. Since they were originally bowling with lane balls I suggested they asked for custom bowling balls for their birthdays or what ever holiday comes first.

When they said their holiday was about to end I realized it was Ramadan. I asked them about fasting during the day and whether it was a gift-giving holiday like Christmas or Hanakkah. They are very nice young men, one is a high school student, one is an apprentice plumber. The language they are speaking is "Yugoslavian". I guess they're either Serbian or Coatian or Bosnian, since I'm pretty sure there is no more Yugoslavia and am totally confused about what is left there.

They are very nice young men. I'm know there are psycho Muslims out there, just like there are of any other ethninity. Isn't it possible that this 18 year old mall shooter was just a disturbed teenager, not unlike the Columbine shooters? Perhaps the media isn't reporting a "terrorist" connection because there isn't?

Don't you think the media would have jumped all over the "terrorists among us" theme if there was any truth to that?


28 posted on 02/15/2007 12:31:04 PM PST by YankeeGirl
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To: snarks_when_bored

Well if the AP is 'fessing up to the PTSD story, it means the Radical Islam angle is much more likely, and the AP is looking to bury it under another explaination.

Of course, the MSM still doesn't admit that Muhammad and Malvo had any racial or religious motivation.


29 posted on 02/15/2007 12:35:57 PM PST by bondjamesbond (No matter how PC you are, there's always somebody more PC than you, to condemn you as un-PC.)
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To: NewCenturions
True. I've only heard the guy described as "Muslim" on Rush and here.

Mike Savage was all over it for the last couple of days.......

30 posted on 02/15/2007 12:38:15 PM PST by Red Badger (Rachel Carson is responsible for more deaths than Adolf Hitler...............)
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To: silverleaf

Are you saying that's what happened or ar you just speculating?


31 posted on 02/15/2007 12:45:10 PM PST by Chuckster (Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset)
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To: Mobile Vulgus

Of course there is zero evidence that religion had anything to do with this, or even that the boy or his family were practicing Muslims, and as the article notes Bosnian Muslims are not associated with the jihadist crap, and as far as I've ever heard, there is no radical Muslim activity in Salt Lake City or Utah. I've heard lots of other states and cities associated with investigations of radical mosques wannabe terrorist young male Muslims, but never a peep from Utah/SLC.

All the evidence points to this being just a messed up kid, possibly due to his early childhood in a violence-infested war zone and growing up with parents who were also traumatized by that experience. He's probably been a cultural misfit ever since he arrived in Utah, due to the foreignness of American culture and the close-knit Mormon-dominated community in Utah. Quite possibly his family discouraged him from getting involved in the LDS Church, due to their religious heritage (probably more important than theological convictions in the case of Bosnian Muslims), contributing to his social alienation, but I really doubt the "Muslim" angle had any more contribution than that.

While PC can go to far, I do see a benefit to not jumping to conclusions abotu religious motivation every time a Muslim does something bad. Lots of Muslims are no more religiously zealous than Unitarians or agnostics, but there is a large, well-funded, and dangerous Muslim constituency that is eager to take advantage of any opportunity to convert peaceful or non-practicing Muslims to their extremist views. We play into their hands when we're quick to voice suspicion that events like this one are rooted in Muslim faith -- makes it that much easier for the extremists to cozy up to the peaceful Muslims and say "See how evil those infidels are! Always trying to blame Islam for bad things that happen in their country!".


32 posted on 02/15/2007 12:47:28 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Mobile Vulgus
The MSM is hiding underneath the perp's trenchcoat. . .making it seem, more a 'Columbine' MO here; rather than 'any'thing else.

Meantime, doubt 'Mulim' even resonates with majority of American's when hearing he is from Bosnia.

That said; why should the MSM be interested in telling the truth here. It surely does not serve their agenda in any way; to even 'go there'.

Remember growing up and how I felt sorry for the Russians who only were exposed to 'propaganda'. . .

33 posted on 02/15/2007 1:02:25 PM PST by cricket
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To: Mobile Vulgus
The MSM is hiding underneath the perp's trenchcoat. . .making it seem, more a 'Columbine' MO here; rather than 'any'thing else.

Meantime, doubt 'Mulim' even resonates with majority of American's when hearing he is from Bosnia.

That said; why should the MSM be interested in telling the truth here. It surely does not serve their agenda in any way; to even 'go there'.

Remember growing up and how I felt sorry for the Russians who only were exposed to 'propaganda'. . .

34 posted on 02/15/2007 1:02:34 PM PST by cricket
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To: Mobile Vulgus
The MSM is hiding underneath the perp's trenchcoat. . .making it seem, more a 'Columbine' MO here; rather than 'any'thing else.

Meantime, doubt 'Mulim' even resonates with majority of American's when hearing he is from Bosnia.

That said; why should the MSM be interested in telling the truth here. It surely does not serve their agenda in any way; to even 'go there'.

Remember growing up and how I felt sorry for the Russians who only were exposed to 'propaganda'. . .

35 posted on 02/15/2007 1:02:38 PM PST by cricket
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To: Publius6961

The vast majority of crazed killers in the US are "Christian", meaning they grew up in a family that was at least nominally Christian. But we almost never see their religious affiliation mentioned unless they have explicitly cited it as a motivation and/or have been involved in "Christian" groups that promote violence (e.g. Timothy McVeigh). Why should we apply a different standard to Muslims? A list of violent acts committed by nominal Muslims isn't meaningful without a comparison list of violent acts committed by nominal Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists, etc., and a breakdown of the representation of each in the population in question.


36 posted on 02/15/2007 1:03:29 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Newspapers should just report the facts and let the readers sort it all out.


37 posted on 02/15/2007 1:06:14 PM PST by bondjamesbond (No matter how PC you are, there's always somebody more PC than you, to condemn you as un-PC.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
While PC can go to far, I do see a benefit to not jumping to conclusions abotu religious motivation every time a Muslim does something bad

Telling the facts of a story is not jumping to conclusions. 'Just the facts please' and I can conclude whatever I wish.

As for PC; why don't we just call it what it is. . .rather than what it is not. . .which is precisely the reason we have it. . .it is not a matter of going to far; but rather that we must suffer it's negative consequences by every measure. . .long or short.

38 posted on 02/15/2007 1:08:48 PM PST by cricket
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To: NewCenturions
I've only heard the guy described as "Muslim" on Rush and here.

Neal Boortz mentions it on the air and on his website.

39 posted on 02/15/2007 1:11:56 PM PST by Rocko
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To: snarks_when_bored
So we are left with at least two possibilities as to the boy's motives.

OR. . .maybe he wanted a 'Columbine' fame. . .. But, he. . . whatever; perhaps a blogger will come up with the truth of the matter. Not sure even 'fair, balanced. . .and unafraid' will go here. I assume they took his computer and are checking out his favorite web-sites. . .

40 posted on 02/15/2007 1:13:21 PM PST by cricket
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To: Chuckster

Listen to the sound on the mall video for yourself and decide.

Sure sounds like the kid yelled "allu akbar" several times when the cops confronted him, but the tape is poor quality and there are lots of echoes.


41 posted on 02/15/2007 1:15:04 PM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: bondjamesbond
Newspapers should just report the facts and let the readers sort it all out.

But, but, but...don't you understand? If they just gave you the facts you might think or do something they don't like!

Doesn't that make sense to you? /s

42 posted on 02/15/2007 1:17:26 PM PST by papertyger
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To: Chuckster

From another thread:

A video has become available, taken by someone hiding in a gift shop:

http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_044000331.html

A bit past midway through, does anyone else hear what sounds like "Allah-hu akbar! Allah-hu akbar!" - just after one of the cops shouts "Police"?


43 posted on 02/15/2007 1:18:02 PM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
But we almost never see their religious affiliation mentioned unless they have explicitly cited it as a motivation and/or have been involved in "Christian" groups that promote violence (e.g. Timothy McVeigh).

That's the problem. Muslims DO belong to a group that advocates violence - Islam. The prevalence of the jihadi teachings in Islam, and the absence of meaningful and widespread denouncement therein, make the lack of individual statement of intent meaningful.

Lack of absolute knowledge does not preclude one from acknowledging plausibilities.

44 posted on 02/15/2007 1:24:46 PM PST by MortMan (Middle Age: When playing like a child makes you feel like an old man the next morning.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
Why should we apply a different standard to Muslims?

Because Muslims have a codified doctrine on the use of violence for the purpose of extending their influence and Christians and Jews do not. Your question is as self-refuting as asking why we should legitimate businessmen and racketeers be held to different standards.

If islam were not a religion, what would you call those who practice it?

45 posted on 02/15/2007 1:25:40 PM PST by papertyger
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To: bondjamesbond

Yes, but there's always a lot of selectivity in fact-reporting. The Columbine killers were most likely from families that were at least nominally either Christian or Jewish, but I don't recall the MSM specifying their religious background in regular reports (in-depth article like NYT magazine features, etc., probably did). In that light, I find it hard to see an MSM conspiracy to minimize the threat of extremist Islam, in the fact that few articles about this incident mention the family's religion.


46 posted on 02/15/2007 1:27:12 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: BunnySlippers

Studying to become a mullah.


47 posted on 02/15/2007 1:31:23 PM PST by 353FMG (I never met a liberal I didn't dislike.)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
Yes, but there's always a lot of selectivity in fact-reporting.

This is a statement that is so fuzzy it can neither be proven nor refuted, therefore it has no legitimate purpose except to "spin" in the direction that is favorable to your thesis.

The Columbine killers were most likely from families that were at least nominally either Christian or Jewish, but I don't recall the MSM specifying their religious background in regular reports (in-depth article like NYT magazine features, etc., probably did). In that light, I find it hard to see an MSM conspiracy to minimize the threat of extremist Islam...

But let's examine that "light."

It is the assumption that Islam is, in some sense, interchangable with Christianity and Judaism. This is an assumption in need of support.

48 posted on 02/15/2007 1:37:52 PM PST by papertyger
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To: papertyger

There are certain extremist groups with Christianity and Judaism that have codified their endorsement of violence to achieve their theologically driven objectives. At this particular point in history, those are quite small subsets of those larger religious traditions, but Christianity in particular once had a widespread devotion to violence as a means of extending its influence. Islam can change too, but we can help or hinder the pace of that change, by our choices in how we treat moderate and liberal Muslims -- the more we alienate the moderates and liberals, the more susceptible they become to the welcoming advances of the extremists. Personally, I don't want to help the extremists in any way.

Until we know more about this particular family and young man, I think it's important to keep in mind that "Muslim" is just the default religious identity of the entire Bosnian ethnic group, and the fact that a Bosnian identifies him/herself as "Muslim" when asked what his/her religious affiliation is, doesn't imply any serious level of belief in the teachings of the Bosnian brand of Islam (which is a notably non-extremism-prone brand to begin with). It's sort of like asking a native Englishman what religion he is -- if he doesn't give a whit one way or the other about religion, and hasn't been to church in years except to attend a few weddings and funerals of friends and relatives, he'll generally say "Anglican" -- but trying to make a connection between Anglican theology and any particular acts of this individual (good or bad) would be groundless.


49 posted on 02/15/2007 1:38:30 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Utah Binger

That's good. You are on to something....


50 posted on 02/15/2007 1:45:43 PM PST by mmparker
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