Posted on 02/18/2007 12:46:51 PM PST by dirtboy
Rudy Giuliani's interview on Hannity and Colmes, 2/6/2007
HANNITY: Generally speaking do you think it's acceptable if citizens have the right to carry a handgun?
GIULIANI: It's part of the constitution. People have the right to bear arms. Then restrictions have to be reasonable and sensible. You can't just remove that right. You got to regulate consistent with the second amendment
If there is a terror attack involving guns on US soil during the tenure of a President Rudolph Giuliani, will President Giuliani adhere to the sentiments about the right to bear arms that he expressed recently during his Hannity and Colmes interview? Or be more inclined to respond similar to his actions as mayor of New York City when his administration took guns away from long-term permit holders who had never engaged in wrongdoing? Some would say that we should listen to what a candidate says. Others say we should look at what a candidate has done in the past. As it so happens, Rudy did have a chance to express his opinions about what he thought was the proper federal response to a terrorism attack involving guns. The attack in question happened February 23, 1997 when a Palestinian opened fire on tourists at the observation deck of the Empire State Building. One person was killed and several injured. A note found on the terrorist said the attack was punishment against the "enemies of Palestine." So how did Mayor Giuliani respond to this attack? By calling for gun control and supporting Bill Clinton's proposed gun control law?.
Citizens Crime Comission
Archives of Rudolph W. Giuliani
1095 Avenue of the Americas
March 6, 1997, 8:15 a.m.
A couple of weeks ago, all New Yorkers and people throughout the world were appalled by the senseless and horrifying act of violence that occurred at the Empire State Building.
The Empire State Building is such an important landmark... such an important symbol of America that, like so many other places in New York City, when a tragedy happens there, it receives a great deal of attention in the media.
[snip]
Because of this transformation of perception, when this latest tragedy occurred, instead of having to defend New York City, we were able to focus national attention on the real problem, which is gun control.
And even as we grieve for those who lost their lives, and our hearts and prayers go out to the victims and their loved ones, we may be able to find some sort of meaning in this tragedy by using it as a catalyst to revive national gun control efforts.
[snip]
Yesterday, President Clinton outlined his proposals for more stringent, federal gun licensing requirements.
[snip]
I applaud the President's proposals, and I will support them any way I can.
I only hope that he is right, and that Congress is finally ready to recognize that the vast majority of Americans want more gun control. It makes sense. It is time. And we can no longer let special interests dominate this vitally important issue. ---
-----------------
Now, Rudy Giuliani has said recently that federalism dictates that New York and New York City should be able to pursue avenues of gun control that are not needed in more rural areas. However, he did not adhere to that federalist sentiment in response to this terror attack
At City Hall, Mayor Giuliani attempted to shift the focus toward gun control. He was accompanied by Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., whose husband was killed and son wounded in the 1993 shootings on a Long Island Rail Road commuter train that killed six people and wounded 17. In both that incident and Sunday's shooting, the gunmen circumvented New York's strict gun control laws by traveling out of state to buy the murder weapons, officials said.
"New York State, New York City have great gun control laws," Rep. McCarthy said. "But as the mayor said, we cannot control all the guns that are coming in from other parts of the country and that's what has to be stopped."
----------------
So voters concerned about the Second Amendment have to decide if what candidate Giuliani says now carries more weight than what Mayor Giuliani did back then. Candidate Giuliani recently said that gun control was a state issue. But Mayor Giuliani had no problem wanting to use federal power to overrule state laws about gun rights.
Gun rights advocates rightly decried efforts by groups such as the Brady Center and Handgun Control Inc. to exploit school shooting tragedies to push for gun control laws that had no relevance to the shootings.
And here we have Mayor Giuliani ... exploiting tragedy to push for gun control laws. And asking that gun control not just be applied to New York City, but other states. In complete opposition to his stated fealty to federalism when it comes to gun control laws.
So those who are concerned about 2nd Amendent rights to bear arms in self-defense, both of homes and of society when confronted in public by criminals and possibly terrorists, must decide what carries more weight.
What Rudy Giuliani says now as he runs for president. Or what he has done in the past.
Because the gun-grabbers are still out there, pushing for more laws, despite what Giuliani's posters claim to the contrary, that gun control is a dead issue. In response to the latest Salt Lake City shooting, Carolyn McCarthy was again calling for more gun control laws. So if Rudy Giuliani becomes president in January 2009, and there is a school shooting two months later, will he resist call for gun control? Or stand with Carolyn McCarthy as he did in 1997, exploiting tragedy to call for more federal gun control laws?
Ping.
GREAT ARTICLE!! Get the truth out there. I posted something similar today in a thread that had a story from Little Green Footballs about the Empire State Building attack. I'll post it here too.
Ill take "exploit the tragedy" for 100.00 please.
You've set the table...
Now bring on the meat!
Who's YOUR candidate?
Or is your "strategery" to let Hillary/Obama run unopposed?
(Most except for the really slow learners have got your drift on Rudy.)
Here's the relevant info and quotes:
U.S. State Department - Significant Terrorist Incidents 1961-2003
Empire State Building Sniper Attack, February 23, 1997: A Palestinian gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland, and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine."Archives of Rudy Giuliani, Mayor's Message, 2 March 1997:
"Good morning. It has been a week since the terrible tragedy that happened last Sunday at the Empire State Building. And even as we grieve for the families and our hearts and prayers go out to them, perhaps we can use this senseless tragedy to re-energize the fight for gun control."Archives of Rudy Giuliani, Major Addresses, Citizen's Crime Commission, 6 March 1997:
A couple of weeks ago, all New Yorkers and people throughout the world were appalled by the senseless and horrifying act of violence that occurred at the Empire State Building.Two days after the terrorist attack, Giuliani wasn't assessing further Islamic terrorist threats or preparing the city against terrorist attack or publically denouncing Islamic terrorism. No, instead he was in a press conference at City Hall with a Democrat gun control nut (Rep. Carolyn McCarthy) by his side calling for national gun control.[snip]
Because of this transformation of perception, when this latest tragedy occurred, instead of having to defend New York City, we were able to focus national attention on the real problem, which is gun control. And even as we grieve for those who lost their lives, and our hearts and prayers go out to the victims and their loved ones, we may be able to find some sort of meaning in this tragedy by using it as a catalyst to revive national gun control efforts.
[snip]
Yesterday, President Clinton outlined his proposals for more stringent, federal gun licensing requirements. ... I applaud the President's proposals, and I will support them any way I can.
I only hope that he is right, and that Congress is finally ready to recognize that the vast majority of Americans want more gun control. It makes sense. It is time. And we can no longer let special interests dominate this vitally important issue.
[snip]
I know many people argue that keeping and bearing arms is federally guaranteed right as stated in the Second Amendment of the Constitution. But even in the Second Amendment, it refers to firearms in the context of a well regulated militia, and well regulated is what we're trying to accomplish.
This is the TRUTH that must be told about the February 1997 terrorist attack in New York City. This is how Giuliani deals with terrorist attacks. He blamed the guns, called for violating constitutional rights for EVERYONE, and wanted to take away our own individual defense against further terrorist attacks. More disturbing is that he would openly politicize a terrorist attack to advance a liberal agenda.
Even if Giuliani didn't have all of the other 100-ton social liberal and personal baggage he would carry as the GOP nominee for President, his reaction to this terrorist attack is more than enough reason for Republicans to seriously consider looking for a better candidate.
Gun control is just one of many issues Rudy's wrong on. An important one, but still just part of a list.
His personality is suited only to government by edict and autocratic control. That was OK after 9/11, but not suited to the Presidency.
In this particular instance the real problem was Islamist control, not gun control.
It'll be real interesting to see if the NRA endorses Rudy if he happens to win the nomination.
as mayor of NYC... that's it. Besides being pro-gay-marriage, anti-gun and pro-illegal... he's also carrying as much personal baggage as The Beast. As long as Hunter or Romney are still in the race... I'll go with them first.
Yep, if Julie-Annie were president they would be banned by now. There was a mall shooting a week ago and the amish school shooting last year. Either event would have been enough for him to impose "common sense" regulations. I fear that he would abuse executive orders and weild the BATF in a way most terrifying to gun owners.
An old saw in trial law says when you don't have the facts in your favor, argue the law and when you don't have the law in your favor, bang your fists on the table.
You really should stop before you break something in your hands.
Someone should post on YouTube Rudy's public comments regarding gun control after that Feb. 1997 incident. They've got to be buried on tape somewhere.
I own one gun, it's a seven shooter.357 I'm not a sportsman nor a target shooter and that one gun is all I want.
Some time in the future if I decide I want 50 guns or 100 guns, I don't find anything in the second amendment that disallows it. Nor do I see anything there that would allow the government or anybody else to regulate consistent with the second amendment.
I live in Illinois and I'm not allowed to carry my one gun in any form outside my own property but I do get to keep it in my own home for protection...and I'm a pretty good shot with it too.
He could become AG of New York now that Eliot Spitzer is governor and carry on Spitzer's legacy in that job.
- Rudy tossed Arafat out of a city sponsored celebrations saying, "I would rather not have someone who has been implicated in the murders of Americans there, if I have the discretion not to have him there”.
- Rudy did the same to Fidel Castro.
- When a Saudi prince donated millions to 9/11 relief efforts and later suggested that United States policy in the Middle East may have been partially responsible for the attacks, Rudy returned the money.
- Rudy refused to meet with racial arsonist Al Sharpton.
- Rudy as mayor was strong on law and order. Rudy said that "government exists above all to keep people safe in their homes and in the streets, not to redistribute income, run a welfare state, or perform social engineering". And Rudy backed this all up by going after both quality-of-life crimes and serious crimes. Total crime went down by some 64 percent during the Giuliani years, and murder went down 67 percent. Auto thefts went down on average about 80,000 per year.
- Rudy supported the police when the police had to enter and deal with Muslims at a mosque.
- Rudy closed down many porn shops across the city and specifically shutdown porn shops in residential neighborhoods.
- Rudy went after both low level and high level drug dealers for the first time in the cities history.
- Rudy had zero tolerance for quality of life crimes such as squeegee extortionists, graffiti vandals, panhandling and public urination.
- Rudy launched a welfare revolution, removing illegal recipients, cutting the rolls by 20% the first year alone and dropping the welfare rolls by 600,000 over the course of his plan.
- Rudy launched a work requirement program for the remaining welfare recipients. the NY Times called it slavery.
- Rudy constantly spoke out against illegitimacy and fatherless families. One of many things that Rudy said on the subject was the following: " If you wanted a social program that would really save these kids, . I guess the social program would be called fatherhood.
" - Rudy objected to affirmative action. Rudy ended the cities set-aside program for minority contractors.
- Rudy rejected the idea of lowering the job requirement standards for minorities and woman. - Rudy said. "it was unfair to expect middle-class kids to work their way through college by holding down jobs and going to classes while exempting students on welfare from working.
" - Rudy reformed the public school system and forced out liberal chancellors who wouldn't install his reforms.
- Rudy tried to privatize 5 of the cities worst public schools.
- Rudy was for school vouchers Rudy said, "The whole notion of choice is really about more freedom for people, rather than being subjugated by a government system that says you have no choice about the education of your child,".
- Rudy fought against public money for an art display that defiled Christ and he fought against other obscene so-called works of art.
- Rudy played hardball with city unions winning concessions from city workers that other mayors had failed to do.
- Rudy strong armed state leaders to merge the cities Housing Police and Transit Police into the NYPD saving the city hundreds of millions. Rudy did this by threatening to fire every housing and transit officer and rehire each as a city cop if legislative leaders did not go along.
- Rudy did the same with the city’s garbageman, many of whom worked only half days because the department was so overstaffed with union jobs. Rudy won $300 million in savings from them by threatening to contract out trash collection to private companies.
- Rudy cut or killed 23 levies and taxes, saving taxpayers $9.8 billion during his terms.
- Rudy cut NYC's top income-tax rate by 20.6%.
- Local NYC taxes on a family of four dropped 23.7% during Rudy's term.
- Rudy cut the commercial-rent tax.
- Rudy cut sales taxes, including taxes on clothing.
- Rudy cut the marriage penalty on taxpaying couples.
- Rudy cut taxes on commercial rents everywhere outside of Manhattan’s major business districts, and various taxes on small businesses and self-employed New Yorkers.
- Rudy's expenditure growth averaged 2.9% annually, while local inflation between January 1994 and December 2001 averaged 3.6%.
- Rudy privatized municipal assets.
- Rudy sold WNYC radio for $20 million, WNYC-TV for $207 million, and NYC's share of the U.N. Plaza Hotel for $85 million.
- Rudy divested the City from the New York Coliseum adding $345 million to city coffers.
- Rudy let the private Central Park Conservancy manage Central Park.
- Rudy cut NYC's hotel tax from 6% to 5%. Consequently, hotel tax revenues increased from $135 million in Fiscal Year 1995 to $239 million in FY 2001.
- When asked if Rudy would raise taxes after 9/11 Rudy said that would be "a dumb, stupid, idiotic, and moronic thing to do.
" - A quote from Rudy on his economic philosophy: “City government should not and cannot create jobs through government planning. The best it can do, and what it has a responsibility to do, is to deal with its own finances first, to create a solid budgetary foundation that allows businesses to move the economy forward on the strength of their energy and ideas. After all, businesses are and have always been the backbone of New York City.
” - Construction permits increased by more than 50% in the city per year during Rudy's terms.
- Tourism increased 50% in the city per year during Rudy's terms.
- City jobs increased by 430,000 to an all time high of 3.72 million during Rudy's terms.
- City personal income increased 50% during Rudy's terms.
- The percentage income that city residence paid in taxes declined from 8.8 to 7.3 percent during Rudy's terms.
- Unemployment in the city went form 10.3% to 5.1% during Rudy's terms.
- Rudy was an outstanding leader during the 9/11 crisis.
- Rudy has been a strong supporting in our WOT including supporting the mission in Iraq.
- Rudy was chosen by Ronald Reagan in 1981 as an Associate Attorney General placing him in the third highest position in the Reagan's DOJ.
- In 1983, Rudy was appointed by Reagan to be U.S. Attorney for the SD of NY. In that position, Rudy amassed 4,152 convictions including the heads of NY's so-called "Five Families". Rudy also prosecuted terrorists and illegal immigrants.
"It'll be real interesting to see if the NRA endorses Rudy if he happens to win the nomination."
It will never happen. Too many members would demand that their membership fees be refunded.
Curiously, they endorsed Bill Richardson for governor last year. What would happen if Richardson got the rat nomination and Julie-Annie got the GOP nomination? Imagine the NRA endorsing a democrat!
And if I have learned anything about politicians, once a usurper, always a usurper.
I wish you luck. You'll need it.
An old saw in trial law says when you don't have the facts in your favor, argue the law and when you don't have the law in your favor, bang your fists on the table.
You really should stop before you break something in your hands.
I notice you failed to answer the question. Got another "saw" in trial law to explain that?
OMG I know this wasnt posted to me, but for cryin out loud its in HIS TAGLINE.
Oh, defeating the Dems in 2008 is going to be very difficult for any GOP nominee.
However, I can tell you a strategy that history has shown cannot work.
Run so far left that a sizeable third-party movement forms. And give no reason for anyone to cross party lines for you.
Rudy will not be able to hold the party together. And he will give no reason for pro-life and pro-gun Dems to cross over. And he will have little luck attracting independents and Dems as a pro-war candidate, since the Iraq War is becoming more unpopular in that segment with each passing day.
I am not so arrogant as to know what can win. But it should be blindingly obvious that Rudy can't win.
What tag line are you referring to? Perhaps the Gremlins have blocked it on my machine.
I recall similar rhetoric about the nomination of Bill Clinton by the left.
He won because of Bush the elder's leftward drift split the party. THANK YOU for making my point for me! We cannot afford that again!
I don't even want to think about that possibility.
Awesome list! Saved for re-posting on future 'bash Rudy' threads....
Sooo is Rudy now the "new clinton"? I thought ya'll were saying he was the "new reagan"?
I think clinton is closer even by Rudys own admission.
But I'll bet he can post another 'Oldie but Goody' picture of Rudy in a dress.
Or maybe their candidate comparison chart that depicts Hillary's position on the WOT as if she were Tommy Franks.
Would be interesting to hear thoughts on his candidate. Kinda sounding like Hillary might be their man.
That's the entire problem - he is getting a fair amount of the GOP money and bull**** machine behind him. He could well win the nomination given the newly-compressed primary schedule as a result, but has no chance in hell of winning the general election. Which will give the White House to the Dems.
I fought the Clintons tooth and nail when Slick was president, jack. WHAT DID YOU DO TO FIGHT THEM? Slime sure comes easy to the Rudy boosters - but I guess that's the case when you have little else in your quiver.
Read the comprehensive list a few posts up - it will enlighten you about Rudy's economic philosophy.
Elections are usually won on the economy (unless we're at war) and Rudy's got the goods on both those issues.
Or would you prefer a pure Stalinist who WILL try to introduce gay marriage, who WILL try to ban all guns, who WILL try to ban homeschooling - not to mention appoint HUNDREDS of Federal Judges who will make sure to 'make it so.'
Getting a clue now?
P.S. I don't know who Duncan Hunter is, I don't care who Duncan Hunter is (because his chance of being elected is 0.00000%), and people who are on bandwagons of unknown House Representatives are detached from reality....
Hey! Now there's a tagline in there somewhere!
"has no chance in hell of winning the general election"
Do you have any empirical evidence to back this up? Most of the polls I see show Giuliani defeating Hillary and Osama Obama in the general.
Now, you may *want* Giuliani to lose, but there is nothing a priori that says reality must conform to the fantasies of dirtboy, TommyDale & co.
Your post describes a NYC liberal. Take your pick. Two are in the lead. One (R/L), the other (D/L). Same philosophy, different letter of the alphabet.
BTW RE, the wife, who'd knowingly burned the evidence proving this was a terrorist attack, and the daughter, who lied about it for ten years and who apparently supports her father's agenda, why are they still walking around free? They should either be thrown in jail for interfering with a police investigation and destroying evidence, deported or both. Had they come forward with the evidence at the time and been able to convince a real investigation that they weren't knowing conspirators then they should have stayed free. Instead they'd make a nice example for justice.
You think polls now are an accurate indicator of 2008? Those same polls also show, once they dig below the beauty contest, that GOP voters have widespread misconceptions about Rudy. A large number think he is pro-life, for example.
And electoral history shows the dangers when the GOP lurches the bus leftward directly into the path of oncoming Democrats...
In other words, he drifted to the left. He also alientated the NRA.
Leftward Ho! is not the course to set for electoral success in the GOP. Reagan showed that to the Rockefeller Republicans, who seem hell-bent to unlearn that lesson.
The complaints about abortion and gays are valid, but Giuliani's record on education is solid.
Giuliani has supported vouchers, has taken on the teacher unions repeatedly, and has advocated privatizing failing schools.
Rudy can't win without the Social Conservative and moral moderate vote. He's lost already.
The liberal press hasn't exposed him...... yet. They're waiting until after the primaries. Then, the Republicans are burnt toast.
Most polls already show the voters think Giuliani is a moderate, not a conservative or a liberal, which suggests voters have a general feel of what they're getting with Giuliani.
What really upsets people here is that as Rudy gets more airtime, his numbers go up, not down, which again, contradicts the lunatic predictions in these parts.
Gun grabbers don't sleep, as I already demonstrated here.
Rudy is a proven gun-grabber. So thanks for confirming that he cannot win.
In the last few weeks Rudy has given several interviews and in each one he's shown himself to be an expert double-talker, master of political expediency and situational politics. A political strategy long employed by Bill Clinton, in what Dick Morris called the finer aspects of "triangulation".
If you think the NRA or any other major gun advocacy group in the US today is going to endorse Rudy Giuliani for President, you're sadly mistaken.
"It's not only -- I mean, it's part of the Constitution. People have the right to bear arms. Then the restrictions of it have to be reasonable and sensible. You can't just remove that right. You've got to regulate, consistent with the Second Amendment."
~~~ Rudy Giuliani, Interview with Sean Hannity, Feb 6 2007
"On June 20th, I was pleased to announce that the City of New York filed a lawsuit against two dozen major gun manufacturers and distributors."
~~~ Mayor Giuliani, 2000
"As a private citizen, as a prosecutor, as a Mayoral candidate and as Mayor, I have advocated for more regulated and more uniform gun licensing regulations, similar to those for a drivers license."
".... in the Second Amendment, it refers to firearms in the context of a well regulated militia, and well regulated is what we're trying to accomplish."
I only hope that.... Congress is finally ready to recognize that the vast majority of Americans want more gun control. It makes sense. It is time. And we can no longer let special interests dominate this vitally important issue.
~~~ Mayor Rudy Giuliani, March 6, 1997
We need a federal law that bans all assault weapons, and if in fact you do need a handgun you should be subjected to at least the same restrictions -- and really stronger ones -- that exist for driving an automobile.
~~~ Mayor Rudy Giuliani, March 2, 1997
I assume you are angling for a WH invitation to Hitlerly's inaugural ball with your posts?
NOW you're objecting to spam? ROFL
Not exactly an equal opportunity spam objector, are you?
TOP 10 PRESIDENTIAL REQUIREMENTS - must be able to win nationally! (No indication that Rudy can win.)
1 - Strong Position on National Defense (We'll give Rudy this one.)
2 - Realistic Understanding of Global Islamo-Fascist Treat (This one too.)
3 - Effective Communicator of Ideas (Rudy's only "idea" is that we should elect him because of 9/11.)
4 - Supports Strict Constructionist Judiciary (No indication of this from his judicial appointments as mayor of NYC.)
5 - Moral Professional and Personal History (Too laughable to reply to.)
6 - Relies on Capitalism versus Socialism to Solve Problems (We can probably give him this too.)
7 - Sees People as Individuals versus Members of a Group (Can't say that I've seen any indication of this.)
8 - Support Rights of the Unborn (Certainly doesn't describe Rudy.)
9 - Supports Controlled Immigration Policy (He didn't do anything about it as mayor.)
10 - Reasonable Gun Control Position (Only if "reasonable" means taking them all away.)
So, based on your own criteria, WHY DO YOU SUPPORT RUDY?
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