Mossburg 500(Vanity)

[Atlas Sneezed]

Ruby ridge happened because the barrel on a shotgun was one eighth inch too short!

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I recall it was actually the stock that was cut a little too short.

[absolootezer0]

gotta watch state laws on that tho. in MI, if its under 30" it has to be "safety inspected" as a pistol.
once its listed as a pistol, you can't put the buttstock back on it.
the only upside to it is that you can carry it as a pistol with you concealed pistol license.

[Billthedrill]

I'm assuming you still have the wooden stock sold with the piece - mine was the same way until I had it fitted a little. You wouldn't believe the difference about 3/4 of an inch removed and a new recoil pad made!

The real problem with the collapsible stocks is also their advantage - low mass. If there isn't mass to absorb the recoil it all flows to the shoulder. I hate the durn things because they beat the heck out of me. YMMV.

As long as I'm opining, I have tried the pistol-grip thing and if I were strong enough to hold that on target for multiple shots I wouldn't need a shotgun, I'd just beat 'em to death. Again, YMMV. ;-)

[ctdonath2]

So long as the barrel is over 18" and the minmum (folded/collapsed/no-stock) overall length is over 26", yer ok.

[dirtboy]

I'm a fan of Mossberg 500's since they have the safety on the top rear of the receiver

Agree with that. If I'm going to use it in self-defense, I don't want to have to lift up the guy and peer at the trigger guard for that.

In addition, I believe Mossberg is the only shotgun that passes milspecs for such weapons.

[BuffaloJack]

I own 2 Mossburg 500 shotguns. One of them makes my shoulder black and blue everytime it's fired; the other has almost no kick whatsoever. Except for the year of manufacture (12 years apart) they appear to be identical. It's the newer one that kicks.
These are both the civilian version, not the military (long shell tube) version.

[Dutch Boy]

I live in NY. I can't even mail order a bb pistol on line.

[x1stcav]

Uh, what are you talking about?

If you're talking about barrell length, you are pobably right.

I'm talking about shell length in an attempt to allow the poster to cut down on apparent recoil as the old 23/4's were loaded a little lighter and put out a little less shot.

Of course, if you are being facetious, I'll allow you that.

And despite your admonition, no, I don't have to watch what I say or who I say it to.

[El Gato]

Watch out for the minimum overall length requirement for your shotgun. 26" total minimum.

Rarely a problem with a pump or semiauto. Or even a bolt action for that matter. (I had a 16 gauge bolt action, a Mossberg I think, for my first hunting seaon, but it was a "try before you buy" sort of deal, and we gave it back, in favor of a 20 gauge JC Higgens pump. The action would only need to add 8" to the gun to be legal with no butt stock at all. (BTW, the Mossberg 500, with the shortest civilian legal barrel has an 18 1/2 barrel). As you can see by the image below, taking that barrel length to establish scale, the gun is pretty close to 26 inches long not including the butt stock.

The overall length can become a problem with a break action, single or double, with minimum length barrel(s)

[El Gato]

ATF regulation.

Actually it's federal law, not just ATF regulation.

Title 18 Part I Chapter 44 Section 921 (a) (6):

(6) The term “short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length and any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification or otherwise) if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

Along with relevant parts of 18 Part I Chapter 44 Section 922 which actually make various things illegal with respect to short barreled shotguns.

[El Gato]

Yup. F=MA. For every action there is an equal reaction.

Actually that's conservation of momentum.

Momentum is mass * velocity. For a given weight and velocity of shot the heavier the gun the lower it's opposite velocity will be. Of course it's not quite that simple, the force is indeed mass * acceleration, but acceleration is affected by the recoil pad, the way your particular shoulder "gives" and a host of other factors. Still, in general a heavier gun will produce less felt recoil for a given weight and velocity of projectile(s).

[El Gato]

OK, explain this to me, if the ATF requires 26", how can these shorter lengths be legal?

Federal, and most state, law has *two* separate criteria, both of which must be satisfied if a shotgun is not to be deemed a short-barreled shotgun subject to the National Firearms Act rules (which are pretty much, but not exactly, the same as those for machine guns). One is that the barrel or barrels be greater than 18" long, *and* that the overall length be less than 26". With a pump or semiauto, it's pretty hard to get under the 26" overall length if the barrel is 18" or more long. Not so for a single or double barrel break action shotgun. The only National Firearms Act case ever to be adjudicated by the Supreme Court involved a break action shotgun, which violated one and likely both of those criteria. (US vs Miller).

It's really too bad Miller didn't have a Thompson or a BAR instead of cheap Stevens break action shotgun. Things might have been different, since the Court would likely not have ruled that the lower court should not have taken judicial notice that one of those was a weapon suitable for militia purposes.

[El Gato]

This is not a short barreled shotgun. An SBS is intended to be fired from the shoulder. A shotgun with short barrels and a pistol grip, like the one in post 5, is classed as 'Any Other Weapon,' AOW.

In common usage and in NFA regulations (I think) but the actual law (Title 18 section 921 (a) (6)) defines the "less than 26" overall" weapon as a short barreled shotgun.

[El Gato]

These are both the civilian version, not the military (long shell tube) version.

The long magazine version is not limited to military or law enforcement, anyone can buy one. (YMMV by jurisdiction of course). Mossberg shows it in their online catalog.

It's just not as handy for most civilian purposes.

[ko_kyi]

Actually that's conservation of momentum.

Perhaps of interest,

My understanding is that automatics have a lower "perceived" recoil, mostly because the recoil is spread over a slightly longer time. As the bolt operates it moderates the rearward movement of the shotgun, so instead of one big shove you essentially get a shove, a drop in speed, then a smaller shove, all in a few hundredths of a second.

[Balding_Eagle]

OK, you, and a couple others have convinced me it's legal

Is it any good for home protection?

I have zero interest in shooting varmits with it, except for the two legged kind, and I want to make sure they go down to stay. The small size makes it attractive to keep in the bedroom.

[BuffaloJack]

Most states won't let you hunt with the long magazine, but do allow the shorter magazine for hunting.

[sig226]

Somewhere else in the definitions it defines a shotgun as, 'intended to be fired from the shoulder.' I haven't got the book at home and we were jammed at work today, so we will probably be jammed tommorrow, so I don't think I can look it up.

Personally, I like the AOW designation better anyway, because it is only a $5.00 SOT, and I've always wanted a pistol grip sawed off side by side, like some redneck moonshiner from hell might have. When I find a Stevens or a Stoeger for cheap enough, I'm going to have one made.

[RavenHawk5791]

in all seriousness I tore my shoulder to shreds with my syn stock 12ga Mossburg 500a PORT THE BARREL take it to a gun shop that does machine work and have porting put in the end of the barrel my 13 yr old niece can handle that power now about 3 inches of 1/8’ angle drilled holes in 4 lines down the barrel will reduce the recoil by aporx 60% Please have this professionally done

[The Woim]

#4 buckshot is pretty cool and handy for home defense for ALL the reasons you stated.

I would add that #1 buckshot is superior. Not likely to overpenetrate and has more pellets. Guaranteed results.

Yours truly,
The Woim

P.S. - You guys all stop hating on Mossburg! Poor people deserve a good handy cheap shotgun!